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Old 11-14-2011, 11:50 PM    (permalink
Xiomera
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Originally Posted by Jensen View Post
I don't understand how the Sabres' reaction could not be considered? If one player, just ONE player, goes after Lucic and at least throws legit punches at him, at least you stand up for your goalie, your team, the logo on your jersey, and the fans of your team. It's how hockey is supposed to be played. The fact that I'm even having to argue about this shows how far the NHL has dropped.

I would venture to say that that was a more vicious hit than Lucic's. No suspension and Dallas did a better job than Buffalo standing up for that turd Belfour (although it should have been more in this instance as well).
Why would the NHL determine whether a suspension is warranted based on whether someone punched Lucic in the face or whatever it is you think should have happened? That makes absolutely no sense. They are unrelated entirely. It would have no bearing, whatsoever, on the deemed legality and appropriateness of Lucic running over Miller. I'm sorry, but the notion that there is some sort of link there is preposterous.

And you can find hundreds examples of hits that were once seen as "part of the game" and within the rules if you date back 10 or 50 years. We all know it's a new-look NHL.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:06 AM    (permalink
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Well I guess I will just end this right here. You are a fan of the "new NHL" and all of their ****** pussification rules and I am not. For some reason, the entire ******* world is becoming one giant vagina and has to safety proof everything. That's not going to attract viewers in the NHL. I like to see grown men leave their all on the ice without the added influence of guys who are either senile, never played the game, or are being used as a puppet thinking that they are making the game better when they are not. I can't stand when every big hit in the NHL now is scrutinized and has at least one person calling for a suspension. It's ridiculous, stupid, and unneccesary. I hope the NHL enjoys always being a 2nd tier market sport because that's the best they can hope for with the way they're killing the game. Nobody wants to sit and watch players have their balls chopped off and skate up and down the ice for 60 minutes, score a few goals if that, and have no physical play at all (which is where we are heading). I know every year for the past few years my interest in the sport has dropped immensely. No hard hits, don't you dare hurt the goalie, and fights are bad and cause injuries (even though they don't). I don't understand how somebody could not enjoy what Lucic did and then call for a suspension at the same time. It simply baffles me.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:15 AM    (permalink
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Bro, I don't really get why you get so bent out of shape and miss the point of what I'm saying.

You're arguing from a passionate, "This is how I want the NHL to be" mentality, and I get that. But you're misinterpreting everything I've said if you believe I don't think the Sabres should have addressed the situation on the ice. They should have, but whether someone went after Lucic or not is irrelevant to the discussion of whether a suspension should have come down.

The basis of all this has to do with the response of THE LEAGUE, not the players on the ice. We're arguing about two completely different things. Your rant really has little to do with the topic.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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I'm telling you the reason why there shouldn't be a suspension. The reason is because things like this should be handled on the ice not in an office. That's as clear as I can put it so I apologize if that doesn't help you out. I'm not going to argue for the league because I don't agree with hardly anything they do and I'm not going to try to rationalize anything they do.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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I should add that it's unreasonable to expect the NHL wouldn't implement rule changes to prevent concussions. Awareness of head injuries is skyrocketing in all sports. The game could never hold up to public scrutiny if it ignored those concerns. There's really no discussion to be had when it comes to making the sport safer where it can. It's unfortunate if that means you can no longer enjoy the sport.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jensen View Post
I'm telling you the reason why there shouldn't be a suspension. The reason is because things like this should be handled on the ice not in an office. That's as clear as I can put it so I apologize if that doesn't help you out. I'm not going to argue for the league because I don't agree with hardly anything they do and I'm not going to try to rationalize anything they do.
I can see how we've come to this I guess: That isn't a reason in the eyes of the governing body that actually matters. I won't concern myself with any other perspectives since there is no consultation of public opinion when the NHL determines suspensions.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:30 AM    (permalink
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The league also takes the health of the player into consideration usually. Miller has a concussion.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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I can see how we've come to this I guess: That isn't a reason in the eyes of the governing body that actually matters. I won't concern myself with any other perspectives since there is no consultation of public opinion when the NHL determines suspensions.
You are arguing with yourself here. It is well known the league has no general guidelines for suspensions that are consistent. Nobody will be able to justify this for you.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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The league also takes the health of the player into consideration usually. Miller has a concussion.
If a soccer goalie get's slide tackled outside the 18 yard box and gets a concussion or breaks his ankle, he is treated like a normal player. Same goes for the crease. Stay in your home, tender.
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Football...it's rocket surgery now, folks.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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If a soccer goalie get's slide tackled outside the 18 yard box and gets a concussion or breaks his ankle, he is treated like a normal player. Same goes for the crease. Stay in your home, tender.
Get out of here with your soccer.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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The biggest problem in the new NHL was born from the extreme emphasis on hooking that was adopted after the lock-out. Now I'm not saying the early 2000s were how Hockey is meant to be played and I understand the decision as hooking had gotten way out of hand, but penalizing a player every time his stick touches the hip of another player is going way overboard. The biggest side-effects were that the players became less aware of their surroundings at the same time as the game became a lot faster. And the concussions sky-rocketed. I'm sure if we were to take a look at statistics, we'd realize there's a lot less of those during the playoffs then during the regular season. You know, when players are let play.

Now the growing quantity of concussions (most suffered from legal hits) has led to a new scrutiny on big hits, which get suspended whether they're legal or not whenever someone's injured, or whenever some player's head is touched by the lesser second impact (often times, a blow to the chest given with the shoulder going a little upwards will cause a second, far weaker, impact, this time on the helmet or chin), which is very stupid. Every big hit is now seen by most fans as suspendable, no matter how it was done. But less think a second : what does warrant a suspension? The mere fact that Xio is including injury has a decent argument why a player should be suspended is bothering me.



Lucic was going for the puck (because he's a dumbass who couldn't even control the puck on a breakaway) and Miller surrendered his position as a goalie to become another defenceman. He should become fair game, but the rule book says a collision with a goalie should be avoided if possible. Could he avoid it? Maybe. He sure as hell could have at least not hit him that hard, so I guess a penalty was the right call.

Now, is that kind of hit really worth a suspension? the video at :46 gives us the better view, and the hit is pretty much shoulder to shoulder, with Lucic giving a push with his right arm to amplify the hit, making it look like he punched him to the head when seen at high speed from another angle, but there is no such thing. No hit to the head. His feet didn't leave the ice (at least not prior to contact). Didn't use his stick. Didn't project him towards the boards in an unsafe fashion. There's nothing here for a suspension.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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Kings practice is very Russian today, with Voynov and Loktionov playing together for the first time, lots of Russian media all around.
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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The mere fact that Xio is including injury has a decent argument why a player should be suspended is bothering me.
You guys have trouble differentiating between my reasoning for a suspension and the precedent set by the NHL. I'm not making this stuff up. It's something they consider. My opinion of the fact they consider it is irrelevant.

It's kinda unbelievable how often I end up playing devil's advocate to you guys in these debates. Frankly, I don't give a **** whether he's suspended or not. I have no rooting interest in the matter. I stated my opinion, but everything that followed in this argument is based on interpretation of how the league operates.

I'm not one to back down from a discussion when one side is trumpeting an argument that's inherently flawed (in this case, the notion that Buffalo's on-ice response would ever influence how the league handled the matter).
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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i think you're missing the point. no one's arguing that buffalo's on-ice response should influence the matter. i think the argument is that buffalo's on-ice response (or lack thereof) should settle the matter. if there's a penalty to be given, it should be (and was) given in game. the argument is that the nhl should not be in the business of suspending players for hits like lucic's, regardless of whatever it may have done in the past.
Jensen was absolutely arguing this, which is why I was so taken aback by this entire discussion. I kept pointing that out.

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I don't understand how the Sabres' reaction could not be considered? If one player, just ONE player, goes after Lucic and at least throws legit punches at him, at least you stand up for your goalie, your team, the logo on your jersey, and the fans of your team. It's how hockey is supposed to be played. The fact that I'm even having to argue about this shows how far the NHL has dropped.
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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But I'm not considering this from my perspective. I'm thinking about this in terms of the league's disciplinarian role, which isn't going to consider whether "justice" was served on the ice through retaliation.

You guys are basically preaching vigilante justice where a citizen takes retaliation into his own hands rather than allowing law enforcement to do it.

Can we just be done with this conversation now?
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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My argument the entire time has been that it should have been handled on the ice. That's it.
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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My argument the entire time has been that it should have been handled on the ice. That's it.
Yes. Which is an argument that isn't even compatible to the one I was making.

You want vigilante justice, which the outcome of would still have no bearing on the NHL's response to it. If someone commits a murder, then another person commits a crime against the murderer as his form of justice, the courts don't simply say, "Hey, the guy had it coming, so we're done here. Case closed."

I don't see how this is difficult to understand.
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Old 11-15-2011, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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That comparison is beyond stupid. It's self-defense. You are standing up for yourself and your team. If you want to bring law into this, you are allowed to use necessary force to defend yourself or a person in danger. Nobody is killing anybody here.
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Old 11-15-2011, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Nobody on the Sabres went after Lucic because Lucic would smash anyone on their team. So would Chara, so would Thornton, and so would McQuaid. I thought at least Kaleta would try and make an effort and get his ass kicked but nope. So instead of sacking up they just bitched to the media, which makes them look like even bigger pansies. They should have either went after Lucic or not said anything to the media at all, coming from a Bruins fan,
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Duchene had a very, very sexy goal tonight.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:21 PM    (permalink
yo123
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yo123 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yo123 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yo123 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yo123 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yo123 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yo123 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yo123 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yo123 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yo123 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yo123 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.yo123 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Nick Johnson is a stud. What a steal he was.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:22 PM    (permalink
Hines
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Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Quote:
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Nick Johnson is a stud. What a steal he was.
Always had talent, just didn't have any room for him. I was sad to see him leave.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:30 PM    (permalink
Hines
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Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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ouch, nasty hit on kronwall.
Yes it was. He kind of looked pale and blue after that. Hope he recovers quickly.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:40 PM    (permalink
Hines
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Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Hines is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Geno just scored a goal that was on the level of Duchene's.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:43 PM    (permalink
Borat
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Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Those Pens jerseys are fugly
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