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Old 07-20-2012, 12:24 PM    (permalink
Ron
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Until you(social workers) refuse to work for whatever you are getting paid your employers are going to continue to pay you whatever they currently are and you can't expect them to start paying you more than they have to. again...just basic supply and demand.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Until you(social workers) refuse to work for whatever you are getting paid your employers are going to continue to pay you whatever they currently are and you can't expect them to start paying you more than they have to. again...just basic supply and demand.
Yeah. Because I can afford to be unemployed. Blaming the workers instead of those paying them. No wonder people abuse the welfare system. I go to work because it's my job. I have ZERO impact on what a company pays me.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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With education and social services being cut, the kids that I help might end up on the street trying to rape or murder you. Perhaps more people should be social workers and teachers.

Don't get me wrong. I don't do what I do to be rich. It's just an indictment of our society as whole that I should have to restrain violent kids all day at $11.50 an hour and try to counsel their behaviors when even THEY know they can make alot more on the street than I do trying to help them.

More and more single-parent, low-income households and poor neighborhoods equals more and more kids reverting to criminal acts and more and more kids in the juvenile justice system. Yet the financial reward for those trying to prevent criminal behaviors is becoming less and less.
Teachers should really get paid more. And I don't just mean college professors at prestigious universities. I'm talking about the grade school level. Education is everything.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:02 PM    (permalink
Rob S
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Teachers should really get paid more. And I don't just mean college professors at prestigious universities. I'm talking about the grade school level. Education is everything.
Teachers in NYC and Long Island make an ass load.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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Teachers should really get paid more. And I don't just mean college professors at prestigious universities. I'm talking about the grade school level. Education is everything.
And it all trickles down. My situation is that there isn't a tremendous profit to be made in the rehabilitation and/or treatment/therapy of wayward youth, aside from the top administrators in private organizations. Again, I'm not saying that people in my line of work should be pulling 6-figures, but they certainly should make far, far more than $25K.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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Teachers in NYC and Long Island make an ass load.
and they pay an assload in living costs.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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It's unfortunate if your industry doesn't pay well, but you should know that stuff going in.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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It's unfortunate if your industry doesn't pay well, but you should know that stuff going in.
Does knowing how something is mean that it's right? I knew I wouldn't be rich. Does that mean it's right that someone should perform alot of these duties for next to nothing?

Why should someone who is locked in a room with violent and sexual offenders, restraining them during aggressive outbursts, actively preventing them from killing themselves, administering narcotic medications, providing paperwork that adheres to all public welfare and HIPAA regulations, and providing the structure, discipline, and treatment necessary to have a positive impact on the youth's future make a similar wage to a shift runner at a fast food restaurant?

Is it the way it is? Absolutely. Did I know this going in? Yes, sir. Does that mean I should accept it as being sensical? Absolutely not.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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and they pay an assload in living costs.
meh. I would not be in favor of raising teacher salaries here. Teachers start at at least $50,000 plus summers off and can easily get up to $100,000 after 8 years. That's more than adequate. A lot of MBAs I know make the same as my teacher friends make and work double the hours. Oh, and the summer.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Does knowing how something is mean that it's right? I knew I wouldn't be rich. Does that mean it's right that someone should perform alot of these duties for next to nothing?

Why should someone who is locked in a room with violent and sexual offenders, restraining them during aggressive outbursts, actively preventing them from killing themselves, administering narcotic medications, providing paperwork that adheres to all public welfare and HIPAA regulations, and providing the structure, discipline, and treatment necessary to have a positive impact on the youth's future make a similar wage to a shift runner at a fast food restaurant?

Is it the way it is? Absolutely. Did I know this going in? Yes, sir. Does that mean I should accept it as being sensical? Absolutely not.
Eh....maybe not accept it. I don't know. It's just that, obviously some people make a career choice because they love a certain area....well you knew it was going to pay less and your idea was that "loving your job" would make up for whatever difference in pay there is. That would be the only logical train of thought that would get you to work in that industry. If you find that the love of a job doesn't make up for lesser pay, well, try and get a higher paying job.

I say the same thing to people I know working in banking that complain about their hours. **** that....you knew it going in and made the choice to do it anyway to make a huge paycheck. If you want less hours, switch jobs. I dont want to hear about it.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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Eh....maybe not accept it. I don't know. It's just that, obviously some people make a career choice because they love a certain area....well you knew it was going to pay less and your idea was that "loving your job" would make up for whatever difference in pay there is. That would be the only logical train of thought that would get you to work in that industry. If you find that the love of a job doesn't make up for lesser pay, well, try and get a higher paying job.

I say the same thing to people I know working in banking that complain about their hours. **** that....you knew it going in and made the choice to do it anyway to make a huge paycheck. If you want less hours, switch jobs. I dont want to hear about it.
I don't disagree but I think my point is being lost in translation. Certain pay rates make no sense based on job duties. I'm not trying to come across as whining. It just doesn't make sense to me that a degree-required job, that is both impactful and dangerous would pay a rate just percentages above the national minimum.

It is what it is, and I accept my job and have plans to move upward, my question is why it became this way.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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I don't disagree but I think my point is being lost in translation. Certain pay rates make no sense based on job duties. I'm not trying to come across as whining. It just doesn't make sense to me that a degree-required job, that is both impactful and dangerous would pay a rate just percentages above the national minimum.

It is what it is, and I accept my job and have plans to move upward, my question is why it became this way.
I understand that. I get the questioning. It's just a fine line between complaining and questioning and most people don't have the tact to straddle it.
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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I understand that. I get the questioning. It's just a fine line between complaining and questioning and most people don't have the tact to straddle it.
A coworker, whom has 20 years of experience in the same field. He makes much more as a high-ranking supervisor in a State agency and works 3 nights a week at my private agency...

Just clarified things nicely for me. I have a focus and a way of attacking my goals and I thank him...

He was able to sum up the supply/demand aspect...

"You do your job at a high-level. You exceed expectations. You take tremendous pride in your work. You deserve to be rewarded. However, your job requires a degree, but not YOUR degree. It requires some dedication, but not the dedication YOU bring. You strive to be the best, but your job doesn't require that. Sure, not everyone with a degree wants to do your job, but as far as administration is concerned, anyone with a degree CAN. They don't require any specialization from you. Specialize in something. Further your education in a specialty. You'll be rewarded."
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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Currently work for LA Fitness selling membership packages and I hate everything about it. Not quite a retail job but it is very ******.
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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meh. I would not be in favor of raising teacher salaries here. Teachers start at at least $50,000 plus summers off and can easily get up to $100,000 after 8 years. That's more than adequate. A lot of MBAs I know make the same as my teacher friends make and work double the hours. Oh, and the summer.
Da fuq, like normal public school teachers?
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Old 07-21-2012, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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I don't have exact figures, but teachers are also well-compensated in Michigan. Their salaries look fairly modest (starting at around $35-40k, I think, and an average salary of around $65k), but benefits are off the chain. If you're not a dumbass, you can retire after 30 years and live a pretty comfortable lifestyle.

I know that other states don't fare as well. My cousin spent two years living with her parents and working as a substitute while she waited for a teaching job in Michigan, even though she could have landed a job a lot earlier in some lower-paying states.

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Old 07-21-2012, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Teachers do complain a lot about their compensation. They make good money and have ridiculous benefits. They also have a lot of opportunity to work over the Summer.

I would have been a teacher if I had the right demeanor for it. But I won't even train people at the job I have now. I'm just not a teacher.
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:05 AM    (permalink
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Teaching is very lucrative over here as well, especially given the hours that are worked and that they get 12 weeks a year off.

The problem with something like social service is that it offers no financial reward, while it's an honourable industry to work in you will never make much money doing it because the "product" that you create is not one that is desired. It's almost certainly a sad thing! The one positive is that the people who end up doing it are the ones you want doing it, those who genuinely have a passion for it because unlike 99% of jobs, if someone is just mailing it in for a paycheck in that industry they can do genuine harm and unfortunately one way to stop people like that getting into it is to pay next to nothing... Not saying that is right or anything along those lines but it's another reason that they keep the wages low.

That's a big problem with the fact teachers are so well compensated, you end up with a lot of truly bad teachers who are just in it for the cushy lifestyle and easy pay and benefits (at least over here). Contrast it with nurses and you get very few ****** nurses because the pay and entry requirements just aren't worth it if it's something you don't want.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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Da fuq, like normal public school teachers?
It's funny, the private school teachers make significantly less.
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Old 07-22-2012, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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Teachers in NYC and Long Island make an ass load.
That's NYC though. Cost of living is much higher. 50k for NY is pretty craptastic. With my masters I'd make probably 50-58k a year if I taught in Connecticut with my masters. That's pretty horrid. My mom makes $75,000 a year with three days off a week as a nurse for having gone to school a quarter of the length I will.

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meh. I would not be in favor of raising teacher salaries here. Teachers start at at least $50,000 plus summers off and can easily get up to $100,000 after 8 years. That's more than adequate. A lot of MBAs I know make the same as my teacher friends make and work double the hours. Oh, and the summer.
It depends in the area. I will likely be working in the Richland/Columbia school district here in South Carolina and with a masters degree and I'll probably be starting out at $38,000 with a maximum salary of $65,000 (20 years down the road, most likely). That's garbage, even with cost of living much less down here. A nice home in a nice area is still likely to be around $300,000 here.

I'm not complaining at all, and knew full well that I wouldn't make much money being a teacher, but it's what I love to do and have wanted to do for some time now. Money really isn't that important to me, outside of providing for the basic needs and wants. Teaching I think will be incredibly fun and it gives me summers and holidays off which I know will be important as I am quite big on spending time with family. Even more so whenever I have kids down the road.

Still, teachers should be paid better. They get awesome benefits usually, but not always. It depends where you live. People ***** and complain about how poor teachers and the education system is but don't want to pay them more. Who wants to rack up 4-6 years of debt in becoming a teacher just to make crap pay? I'll have close to $100,000 dollars worth of debt when I get out, and that's with getting some really good scholarships and grants along the way. Very few people are willing to do that. At least, very few who are willing to sacrifice money for the sake of doing something they love.

But I'm fine with it, personally. Being that I love English and hated a lot of my English teachers, my passion is to really reverse that sense of dread most kids have about English in high school. That's what excites me more than anything.

Sorry to get preachy, it just bothers me when people think teachers get paid too much or complain too much. Yes, there are certain districts and areas where teachers do get paid a lot, but for the most part I'd argue that is far from being true.
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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Sorry to get preachy, it just bothers me when people think teachers get paid too much or complain too much. Yes, there are certain districts and areas where teachers do get paid a lot, but for the most part I'd argue that is far from being true.
It certainly depends where you are...

Over here teaching is a 3-4 year degree and should start on a good $65,000 at the absolute worst gigs and generally more like $80,000.

Now take into consideration that teachers only work a 40 week year, compared to 48 for others and that they work 6 hour days as opposed to 8 hour days for average other jobs and you can probably start to see why a lot of people complain.

Heck, even working on your $38,000 that you've worked out, that's 950 per week, which equates to more $45,600 for someone working a "normal" job. Factor in the 30 hour week and it's basically 31.50 an hour for teachers and using an average worker doing 38 hours a week for 48 weeks a year and that teacher salary is suddenly the equivalent of $57,500.

That's the thing that teachers don't seem to account for when they complain that someone else makes $45,000 a year compared to their $38,000, you work 8 weeks less a year and 8 hours a week less on the 40 weeks you do work. The pay for teaching really isn't out of scale, if I did 8 hours less a week(basically 4 days a week) I'd get paid like a teacher. If I took an extra 8 weeks leave a year, I'd get paid like a teacher. Of course assuming I could find an employer who wanted what would be considered a part time worker!

So yeah... on an "annual salary" basis teachers are less but a large part of that is that they work significantly less. I'd actually contemplate taking less to work teacher hours!

This isn't meant as a shot at teachers in any way, just pointing out something that I see so many teachers ignore when complaining they are underpaid, it's a hard job and I respect the hell out of those who do it because they want to (the good teachers!). I know I couldn't put up with the parents on a frequent basis, the kids I could deal with but the parents would probably turn me homicidal and I wouldn't be against teachers making more because it is such a valuable occupation, just trying to point out that when you factor in how comparatively little teachers work their pay is not out of proportion with other occupations that require similar levels of training and it's hard to argue that they should be paid more than those that require more training.

I think the biggest flaw in teacher pay is that there is no real reward for being good at your job. In nearly all other occupations, if you are better than the average you will earn more, teaching is one of the few where being a good teacher really doesn't get any financial recognition, that to me is completely wrong, teachers that are good should be incentivised to remain good and those that are bad should have every incentive to become better. Having it almost entirely related to years of service just makes the bad teachers get paid more as they get worse!
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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So yeah... on an "annual salary" basis teachers are less but a large part of that is that they work significantly less. I'd actually contemplate taking less to work teacher hours!
From my experience having many friends whom are teachers, they spend countless hours after school and at home developing lesson plans, organizing coursework, and collating/grading work. They do all of this while not "on the clock."
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
That's NYC though. Cost of living is much higher. 50k for NY is pretty craptastic. With my masters I'd make probably 50-58k a year if I taught in Connecticut with my masters. That's pretty horrid. My mom makes $75,000 a year with three days off a week as a nurse for having gone to school a quarter of the length I will.



It depends in the area. I will likely be working in the Richland/Columbia school district here in South Carolina and with a masters degree and I'll probably be starting out at $38,000 with a maximum salary of $65,000 (20 years down the road, most likely). That's garbage, even with cost of living much less down here. A nice home in a nice area is still likely to be around $300,000 here.

I'm not complaining at all, and knew full well that I wouldn't make much money being a teacher, but it's what I love to do and have wanted to do for some time now. Money really isn't that important to me, outside of providing for the basic needs and wants. Teaching I think will be incredibly fun and it gives me summers and holidays off which I know will be important as I am quite big on spending time with family. Even more so whenever I have kids down the road.

Still, teachers should be paid better. They get awesome benefits usually, but not always. It depends where you live. People ***** and complain about how poor teachers and the education system is but don't want to pay them more. Who wants to rack up 4-6 years of debt in becoming a teacher just to make crap pay? I'll have close to $100,000 dollars worth of debt when I get out, and that's with getting some really good scholarships and grants along the way. Very few people are willing to do that. At least, very few who are willing to sacrifice money for the sake of doing something they love.

But I'm fine with it, personally. Being that I love English and hated a lot of my English teachers, my passion is to really reverse that sense of dread most kids have about English in high school. That's what excites me more than anything.

Sorry to get preachy, it just bothers me when people think teachers get paid too much or complain too much. Yes, there are certain districts and areas where teachers do get paid a lot, but for the most part I'd argue that is far from being true.
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:29 AM    (permalink
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From my experience having many friends whom are teachers, they spend countless hours after school and at home developing lesson plans, organizing coursework, and collating/grading work. They do all of this while not "on the clock."
Most jobs have after hour requirements, that isn't something unique to teaching or anything to justify being paid more (*maybe it should be?). For example, I have plenty of clients that can only meet before/after business hours that require overtime, during busy periods it is expected that I will work after hours. If any job has a deadline then you can end up working extra hours because it has to be finished.

Those who have jobs where they aren't constantly on call in some way or having to do anything after clocking off are lucky, they are the exceptions from my experience and the occupation doesn't matter.

On top of all that... it depends greatly on what type of teacher you are, I don't know how it works over there but over here the curriculum council pretty much tells you what you have to teach and how you have to teach it. Marking is a ***** though, wont get any arguements from me on that, one of the most boring and monotonous things one can do, with the odd funny moment when you see a truly ******** answer!
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