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Old 02-06-2014, 12:45 PM    (permalink
bigbuc
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Default Has Julius Peppers fulfiled his potential?

Coming out of UNC he was a amazing athlete. Two sport star. 4.65 guy that plays at 285ish. Oh yeah, he's 6'7 with trees for arms.

To me he's just coasted throughout the NFL. Not saying he hasn't tried or played hard or hurt cause he has. I'm talking about that drive to be the best on earth. The thing that gets Kobe out of bed in the morning. I ask myself, what if he had the motor of JJ Watt?

But then you look at Peppers body of work and ask yourself is a fair to judge him? He's had 8 ten plus sack seasons and 119 total. He plays the run. Changes the game. Won D rookie of the year. Been to a super bowl. 8 time pro bowler, 3 time all pro.

Somewhere in my head I keep thinking we could have been talking about one of the best ever and not just a really, really good player.
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Julius lacked the motivation and drive to be the BEST. It's the reason a guy like him who has MORE ability than many DEs in the HOF won't get his own bust in Canton.

It happens.
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Sometimes I think Peppers has underachieved, but then I also think that we might have unreasonable expectations for DEs because we expected them to play on the same level as Reggie White and Bruce Smith. It's starting to look like their 200 sack careers were extreme outliers, and it was just a coincidence that they played at the same time.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Define "meeting his potential." Could he have worked harder and had better stats? Of course but I would say almost no player reaches his full potential. But if would have told people Peppers would finish with 120+ sacks, good for top 15 of all time, be a very good run defender, and only miss a few games his entire career, they would have been very satisfied.
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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I think he has done well. Like jr said, going to be finishing Top 15 all time in sacks.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:33 PM    (permalink
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I'd say he didn't reach his ceiling or potential. However, IMO, he is still a HoF candidate when he retires.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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He has had a fantastic career. Borderline HOF. If this was the eighties he'd probably be in by now. The bar has just been raised so much by the all time greats. Probably why guys like Kevin Greene or Leslie O'Neal get lost in casual discussion. I think Peppers filled his potential.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he fulfilled his potential. He turned off his motor way too much during his career and tended to be extremely streaky. He is an amazing player and has had a terrific career, no doubt. But I feel he left a LOT on the table still.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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If anything career sack numbers should be going up in a significant way with the number of opportunities increasing. It's the same as receivers and quarterbacks who play in offences that pass 600 plus times a year. 100 catches or 15 td receptions or 4500 passing yards or 15 sacks doesn't seem near as impressive at it did a couple of decades ago. Large yards per carry don't mean as much to me either from backs that don't have to face eight man boxes.

The one stat that should be going up significantly is interceptions with all the opportunities today. That we aren't really seeing that shows just how restricted defensive backs are now. It seems that safeties now are more apt to be fined than make a pick. Perhapsthis is just perception on my part

For all his talent, Peppers' stats aren't that impressive given the opportunities he has had through his career with all that talent.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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He probably could have been better. I see a lot of Peppers in Jadeveon Clowney. That's why I don't believe Clowney should be the lock for the #1 pick that many seem to think. Peppers was very good, but not a franchise changer. I'm not sure Clowney will be a franchise changer either.
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Old 02-07-2014, 12:25 AM    (permalink
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He probably could have been better. I see a lot of Peppers in Jadeveon Clowney. That's why I don't believe Clowney should be the lock for the #1 pick that many seem to think. Peppers was very good, but not a franchise changer. I'm not sure Clowney will be a franchise changer either.
That's just false. Peppers had as much impact on his team(s) as just about any other DE you can name.

Peppers had infinite potential. Just because he didn't live up to infinity doesn't mean he wasn't a really great player.

Most people just judge DEs on sack numbers. He'll finish in the Top 10 and Top 5 isn't that far away. He has 40 career FF's, 9 INTs, 4 defensive TDs, and a ridiculous amount of tackles for a DE. He's going to the hall of fame. You guys are psycho for saying he's fallen short of greatness.
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Old 02-07-2014, 01:55 AM    (permalink
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When I compare Peppers to contemporaries like Jared Allen and Demarcus Ware, both guys were more impactful players IMO for their respective teams on every snap than Peppers was.

Peppers probably has the ability to tally 15-30 more sacks before he retires, but I doubt he gets them.
It's hard to tell with a guy like Peppers who conceivably could play for 5-7 more years.

Longevity is big with me.
If Pepper could play past the age of 35 and still be productive, it would make his case for the HOF stronger.

Peppers should have been regarded as the best, or among a handful(2-3), of the best pass rushers to play during his era.

When I think about his career, that's not the impression I have about him.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:54 AM    (permalink
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Now as of the first question has Peppers lived up to his draft spot and expectations. The answer is yes. Think of all the top 10 failures and misses over the last 12 years taken by teams and put it into perspective. Tell any Gm you will have a consistent 10 plus sacks a year, great run defense, a person that is one of the best at swatting down passes and taking away throwing lanes and they would be more then happy to spend a number 2 pick on that player.

What bothers alot of people and it has been posted here is that he doesn't have that hall of fame motor. He is a genetic freak of nature and blessed with that rare combination of speed size and strength. And people were looking at him though as someone as of right now in 2014 as someone that should be in reach of Bruce Smith and Reggie White.

Mix in the fact not only if you factor in Jared Allen and Ware, who i think are both HOFer's over him, but add in people like Mathis, Freeney, Trent Cole, Mario Williams, John Abraham does he stand that much above them?

I think the stigma of him not always trying will hurt him when it comes to the hall of fame. When you think of Hall of fame and pass rushing DE/OLB You think of Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Deacon Jones, Michael Strahan, and Lawrence Taylor you think of guys that lay it out every play, go go go high motor and drive. I remember when White had that cast on and was still just mauling people clubbing them just beating them up to get to the QB.

Is he a HOFer in my book, Borderline I really don't know but as some have said he puts together another 3 good 10 sack per year seasons then probably yes.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:39 AM    (permalink
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I'd say no. He's a borderline HOFer, who probably isn't a HOFer when it's all said and done.

But he had potential to be a Reggie White like player, but his motor was hot and cold and he just never realized his potential. He should have been unblockable but there were times when teams would just put a RT on him 1 on 1 and blank him completely. There's no way that should have ever happened, but it did.

His first year in Chicago shows what kind of player he could have and should have been had he cared throughout his career. When he still had his athleticism, he could have dominated any game he wanted to dominate. It's a shame but it is what it is, he didn't have the passion to be one of the greatest ever. He had the ability but he didn't realize it.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:27 AM    (permalink
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Very good player? Yes. Hall of Fame? I'd have to really think about it with Peppers.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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He is a hall of famer. Name alone will get him in even if his stats dont necessarily back it up (imo they will)
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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Mix in the fact not only if you factor in Jared Allen and Ware, who i think are both HOFer's over him, but add in people like Mathis, Freeney, Trent Cole, Mario Williams, John Abraham does he stand that much above them?
You are definitely a Eagles fan.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:51 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, I caught that too ... and lol'd
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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Trent has always been much better than his perception honestly. It's a shame bc he won't make the HOF and won't have a chance but he was a borderline guy in my eyes. He was dominant for the majority of his career.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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Good player? Yeah, absolutely. Would love him on my team.
No, I'm not bringing him up when we're talking about HOF hopefuls.
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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I just checked his sack totals. Not nearly enough to get HOF consideration. I was expecting he had somewhere in the 100 range but he's at 79 currently. That won't get it done.

He was always more of a pressure guy than sack guy. He was in the upper percentage of the league in hurries for a good part of his career, but the HOF cares more about sacks so he won't get in.

Great player though. Very good vs the run, great pressure guy, relentless motor. He was always better than he got credit for. But not HOF material.
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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Peppers is getting into the HOF. If anything he's been underrated his entire career because he's been in Carolina and has a national perception of taking plays off. He's still one of the best DEs of his generation.


Has he lived up to his contract with the Bears? Eh. I think that's the better question.
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:10 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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119 career sacks. Will probably finish with anywhere btw 125 to 130. I can see that getting him into the HOF.

He might not be first ballot, but he's a candidate. A strong finish to his career probably seals the deal, but he's starting to show signs of age.

I didn't realize he had that many sacks. I thought he had around 100.
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Old 02-07-2014, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
When I compare Peppers to contemporaries like Jared Allen and Demarcus Ware, both guys were more impactful players IMO for their respective teams on every snap than Peppers was.
I can't really compare Peppers and Ware because Peppers was playing in a 4-3 the whole time.

Peppers is pretty borderline right now to me, I think some people are underestimating just how well he did in fact play. Even if you thought he didn't play to his potential, he was still one of the best for many many years.

I think 130 is a good number for Julius to get to to have a realistic shot at the HOF.
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Old 02-07-2014, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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He'll get in because on top of the sacks he has the INTs, blocked FGs, etc
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