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Old 03-07-2012, 12:00 PM    (permalink
Jvig43
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I am going to laugh so hard if Luck busts, just for everyone saying that it is guaranteed he will just replace Manning right away and enjoy success.
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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No they wouldn't. Ryan has a great group of players around him in Atlanta and hasn't done **** in the playoffs.

In terms of comparison, arm strength is really important. Flacco's YPA is a full yard per pass better. That might not seem like much, but over the course of the game it's good for 3-4 1st downs and over the course of the season for 50-60 points. Ryan also throws more picks per pass, though Flacco takes far more sacks, and thus fumbles more.

I'm not saying it's clear cut. I think both guys are good but not great starting quarterbacks in the league. But Flacco is far less limited by raw ability than Ryan is.

People **** on Flacco too much. I've always thought that.
It's not really a black and white argument. I think Flacco has certain abilities above Ryan, but Ryan also does certain things better than Flacco.

I think Flacco has a bigger arm and can throw downfield with far more accuracy than Ryan. And well...that's pretty much it.

Ryan has better pocket presence, has more responsibility at the line to adjust routes and protections, reads defenses better, has led more game winning drives, and runs a better 2 minute drill.

But Ryan's arm strength and accuracy limits what he can do. I think if I had to choose 1, I'm going Ryan. Flacco's pocket presence is just awful, and he stares down his reads.

Ryan is an underachiever, I won't use the team excuse for Ryan, but he's also asked to do a lot more than Flacco. So it's a tough debate, but I'm going Ryan.

To be fair as well, each of Matt Ryan's 3 losses came to teams who either won the SB or went to the SB (Packers, Giants, Cardinals). It could be a combination of poor play coupled with **** luck.

I'm not making excuses for him bc he still played horribly in all 3 games, but it's not a black and white argument that we can completely use against him either.
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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I am going to laugh so hard if Luck busts, just for everyone saying that it is guaranteed he will just replace Manning right away and enjoy success.
Who is still saying that?
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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Ryan is an underachiever, I won't use the team excuse for Ryan, but he's also asked to do a lot more than Flacco.
No he's not. Both offenses are run-first to control the clock.

I'm also not sure I buy the accuracy argument. If that were true, why isn't it born out in the stats. Are we to believe that Flacco's group of receivers is better?
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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No he's not. Both offenses are run-first to control the clock.

I'm also not sure I buy the accuracy argument. If that were true, why isn't it born out in the stats. Are we to believe that Flacco's group of receivers is better?
Just because your offense is run first doesn't mean you have the same responsibilities. Cameron doesn't allow Flacco to audible or change protections, Ryan does both.

And no, Flacco probably has the worst WR core in the league. Or bottom 5 at least.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Just because your offense is run first doesn't mean you have the same responsibilities. Cameron doesn't allow Flacco to audible or change protections, Ryan does both.

And no, Flacco probably has the worst WR core in the league. Or bottom 5 at least.
Extreme hyperbole. Even bottom 5 is...ehh...stretching it. Torrey Smith and Anquan Boldin would upgrade a number of WR corps. Bottom 10 at worst.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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Extreme hyperbole. Even bottom 5 is...ehh...stretching it. Torrey Smith and Anquan Boldin would upgrade a number of WR corps. Bottom 10 at worst.
Torrey Smith runs streaks and drops half of them. Boldin runs a 8 second 40 and sucks now. Lee Evans was their 3 and missed the whole season basically.

Name me 10 WR cores worse than that.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Torrey Smith runs streaks and drops half of them. Boldin runs a 8 second 40 and sucks now. Lee Evans was their 3 and missed the whole season basically.

Name me 10 WR cores worse than that.
Jags, Bucs, Colts, Rams, Browns, Redskins, Vikings, Seahawks, Jets, Raiders, Bears, 49ers.

The bold ones are the 100% ones. Thats 10-12 right there.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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Torrey Smith runs streaks and drops half of them. Boldin runs a 8 second 40 and sucks now. Lee Evans was their 3 and missed the whole season basically.

Name me 10 WR cores worse than that.
Alright, bottom 5, fine. You're very hostile lately. That's normally reserved me for me.

Anyway, Rams and Browns are clearly worse. And the Jaguars. The Bucs kind of sucks too. The Bears aren't great. Depending on how you factor in Harvin, the Vikings actual WRs are really terrible.

The Ravens are in the 5-7th worst rage at worst.

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Jags, Bucs, Colts, Rams, Browns, Redskins, Vikings, Seahawks, Jets, Raiders, Bears, 49ers.

The bold ones are the 100% ones. Thats 10-12 right there.
Actually, the Raiders aren't half bad. A **** ton of speed if nothing else.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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Alright, bottom 5, fine. You're very hostile lately. That's normally reserved me for me.

Anyway, Rams and Browns are clearly worse. And the Jaguars. The Bucs kind of sucks too. The Bears aren't great. Depending on how you factor in Harvin, the Vikings actual WRs are really terrible.

The Ravens are in the 5-7th worst rage at worst.



Actually, the Raiders aren't half bad. A **** ton of speed if nothing else.
Really? Yeah work has been kicking me in the balls lately. It's probably showing on here.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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And fine, maybe not top 5, but it's still pretty bad. Especially since Cam Cameron does his absolute best to make a poor unit even worse by using them in the exact opposite way he should.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't have the Colts on there but can agree with the rest of that list. Throw in the Bills and Titans (at least w/o Britt) as possibilities, too.


Also, how the hell did this FA thread become all about Flacco and the Ravens WR core?
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Alright, bottom 5, fine. You're very hostile lately. That's normally reserved me for me.

Anyway, Rams and Browns are clearly worse. And the Jaguars. The Bucs kind of sucks too. The Bears aren't great. Depending on how you factor in Harvin, the Vikings actual WRs are really terrible.

The Ravens are in the 5-7th worst rage at worst.



Actually, the Raiders aren't half bad. A **** ton of speed if nothing else.
Oh **** yeah i forgot about Denarius Moore. Still other than that their receivers are dog ****.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't have the Colts on there but can agree with the rest of that list. Throw in the Bills and Titans (at least w/o Britt) as possibilities, too.


Also, how the hell did this FA thread become all about Flacco and the Ravens WR core?
Garcon and Collie over Boldin and Smith? Not sure about that one.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Garcon and Collie over Boldin and Smith? Not sure about that one.
Wayne? Unless we're forecasting for 2012 and Wayne leaving town. But that would be pretty damn stupid since the rosters for all teams listed could change.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't have the Colts on there but can agree with the rest of that list. Throw in the Bills and Titans (at least w/o Britt) as possibilities, too.


Also, how the hell did this FA thread become all about Flacco and the Ravens WR core?
The Colts, assuming they lose Harrison WAYNE and Garcon, will drop to bottom 5 easily. Collie and like....Blair White? Tha ****?
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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Wayne? Unless we're forecasting for 2012 and Wayne leaving town. But that would be pretty damn stupid since the rosters for all teams listed could change.
Oh yeah Wayne. Fine take the Colts out lol.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Torrey Smith runs streaks and drops half of them. Boldin runs a 8 second 40 and sucks now. Lee Evans was their 3 and missed the whole season basically.

Name me 10 WR cores worse than that.
Theres no way we can say whether or not they are a clear cut bottom 10 team or not, but I'll agree that they absolutely had the worst depth at receiver. After Smith and Boldin there was literally nothing so they ran a tonne of their offense through Rice, Pitta and Dickson as well, all of whom are actually pretty damn good or great receivers at their positions.

I think pretty much everyone would agree that Chicago, Minnesota, Cleveland, St. Louis and Jacksonville are without a doubt worse than the Ravens.

After that, toss in Seattle and Tenessee this year due to the injuries to both Rice and Britt. Buffalo pretty much has nothing beyond Stevie Johnson who isn't amazing, hes just good for 60-80 yards every week. New York Jets situation is basically the same as the Ravens with Holmes not giving any ***** and Plaxico being as inconsistent and unreliable as Smith in Baltimore. Tampa Bay has to be worse with Williams sophomore slump and Benn not being on the same level as Smith.

Thats 9 teams right there worse or arguably worse. After that, you have some subjective teams like Washington, Denver, Oakland and San Francisco who all have questionable receiver situations along the lines of Baltimore's but with more depth to them. I'll call that 13 that I'd put at or below the level of the Ravens. Beyond those 13 the arguments get tough though and you'd have to be arguing about teams like Carolina, New England or Arizona where the passing offenses literally run through only one receiver.

I agree that Boldin and Smith aren't amazing, and they literally had no one else, there are a lot of other teams with really ****** receiver situations, but I'd take all of the pieces of the Ravens offense over a lot of teams.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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The Colts aren't re-signing Wayne. And I'm not sure Garcon is coming back either. So yeah, right now the Colts have a bottom 5 WR corps, easily.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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The Colts aren't re-signing Wayne. And I'm not sure Garcon is coming back either. So yeah, right now the Colts have a bottom 5 WR corps, easily.
If we are looking at it like that, Colston and Meachem are gone so we have Henderson, Moore, and Adrian Arrington....
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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If we are looking at it like that, Colston and Meachem are gone so we have Henderson, Moore, and Adrian Arrington....
Both situations are pretty up-in-the-air and could change before the season starts.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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Who is still saying that?
Read the last few pages of people saying that there wouldn't be a benefit to keep Manning around to mentor Luck. A few have said they'll be just fine without him, and we know he is going to do well. I want Luck to do well, I was more of just saying that to the people who just keep presupposing that he is already good to step in for Manning.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Read the last few pages of people saying that there wouldn't be a benefit to keep Manning around to mentor Luck. A few have said they'll be just fine without him, and we know he is going to do well. I want Luck to do well, I was more of just saying that to the people who just keep presupposing that he is already good to step in for Manning.
Luck on his own my do well enough but he is coming into a pretty ****** situation as a rookie QB. Right now his #1 receiver is Austin Collie, #2 is Blair White. How well Luck does may not really be up to him.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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Luck on his own my do well enough but he is coming into a pretty ****** situation as a rookie QB. Right now his #1 receiver is Austin Collie, #2 is Blair White. How well Luck does may not really be up to him.
Most #1 overall pick QBs go into pretty ****** situations. Luck is better equipped to survive it and succeed than most.
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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If history tells us anything, the Colts should draft a running back next year. Its basically guaranteed they'll be some hybrid of Emmitt Smith and Edgerrin James.
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