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Old 03-26-2012, 11:40 AM    (permalink
Jughead10
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
He did have to spent part of an offseason in jail, so in this case, they were a legitimate concern. A more strict judge may not have allowed that.
He stole a few PS3s out of dorm rooms at Marshall. And received probation for it. Somehow he violated his probation while in Arizona for Superbowl 42. Someone from his past brought it to the attention of the authorities and he had to do some jail time in the offseason because of it. They never really said what he did in AZ to violate it. Maybe being at some party or something.
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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Of those 3 teams how did they do in the playoffs? Now compare that to the Giants, 9ers and Ravens who had strong defenses. You still wanna stand by the defense is pointless comment?
I don't really know what you're trying to say. The Giants defense is far worse than the 49ers and they won vs. them, and the Pats beat the Ravens. The Patriots like the Giants played pretty well on defense during the playoffs, and the Giants won the game because a couple of different key instances went their way, mostly involving dropped passes. Defense is becoming less and less relevant because the rules suck. This is fact.

The two SB teams were in the bottom 5 in total defense.
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
The same New York Giants who gave up more points per game than the Patriots, Saints and Packers???

The same New York Giants who were 29th in the league against the pass???

The Giants defense stepped it up but let's not make out like they were the 85 Bears last year
I knew this was coming....Look at them from the end of the season into the playoffs.

Once Perry Fewell got his head out of his ass and ran a scheme more suited to his talent, the Giants shut out the Falcons, shut down the nigh invisible Packers and held the 49ers without a 3rd down conversion until the final play of regulation. And then held the Patriots relatively in check.

Their defense stepped up and they won a Championship for it.

I'm telling everyone this now, next season we'll see less extreme offensive dominance. The lockout was a huge part of the reason so many offenses exploded, particularly the ones with consistency at QB and in the coaching staff. Defenses take longer to gel each season and that was exacerbated last year by the lockout.

It will be far less extreme this year. I don't bet, but if I did, I'd bet that we don't see so many bottom ranked defenses end up that close to the Superbowl again next year.
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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Well, we had a tough second half of the schedule, playing with 5 Cbs on IR, and 1 MIKE on IR. Osi on PUP, Prince on PUP, Tuck basically hurt all season. Once Fewell got his head out of his butt, and he did after the redskins game, when the players met with him regarding scheme good things happened. It also was a great thing, that people came back healthy.

I wanted him fired, but I was happy he adjusted, even though it was late in the season. Let's see how he does this upcoming season. Everyone should be back and healthy so let's see.
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
I knew this was coming....Look at them from the end of the season into the playoffs.

Once Perry Fewell got his head out of his ass and ran a scheme more suited to his talent, the Giants shut out the Falcons, shut down the nigh invisible Packers and held the 49ers without a 3rd down conversion until the final play of regulation. And then held the Patriots relatively in check.

Their defense stepped up and they won a Championship for it.

I'm telling everyone this now, next season we'll see less extreme offensive dominance. The lockout was a huge part of the reason so many offenses exploded, particularly the ones with consistency at QB and in the coaching staff. Defenses take longer to gel each season and that was exacerbated last year by the lockout.

It will be far less extreme this year. I don't bet, but if I did, I'd bet that we don't see so many bottom ranked defenses end up that close to the Superbowl again next year.
I have no way to quantify this, but from what I saw this year, there were two units that got affected more than others by the lockout: offensive lines and defensive backfields. Unsurprisingly, these are the two units that rely the most on communication, trust, and continuity.
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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I wanted him fired, but I was happy he adjusted, even though it was late in the season. Let's see how he does this upcoming season. Everyone should be back and healthy so let's see.
I can all but guarantee that, with everyone healthy and a full offseason to implement his scheme, he goes back to his soft coverage roots.

Like I've said to BBD before, just hope he does well enough to get a head coaching job next year and then you hire someone more aggressive instead of playing this "suck for half the season (or more) then adjust" game.
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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I knew this was coming....Look at them from the end of the season into the playoffs.

Once Perry Fewell got his head out of his ass and ran a scheme more suited to his talent, the Giants shut out the Falcons, shut down the nigh invisible Packers and held the 49ers without a 3rd down conversion until the final play of regulation. And then held the Patriots relatively in check.

Their defense stepped up and they won a Championship for it.

I'm telling everyone this now, next season we'll see less extreme offensive dominance. The lockout was a huge part of the reason so many offenses exploded, particularly the ones with consistency at QB and in the coaching staff. Defenses take longer to gel each season and that was exacerbated last year by the lockout.

It will be far less extreme this year. I don't bet, but if I did, I'd bet that we don't see so many bottom ranked defenses end up that close to the Superbowl again next year.
We all may want to think that, but this isn't true at all. By the playoffs most good offenses and defenses should be clicking by then, and any lingering effects of the shortened offseason should be over. Also, traditionally defenses get together more quickly in training camp than offenses which require more cohesion and timing. The offense thing is here to stay.

The Giants got their crap together and played extremely well down the stretch, but I don't think by any means they have a dominant defense, at least not anywhere near as good as the 49ers or the Ravens.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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We all may want to think that, but this isn't true at all. By the playoffs most good offenses and defenses should be clicking by then, and any lingering effects of the shortened offseason should be over. Also, traditionally defenses get together more quickly in training camp than offenses which require more cohesion and timing. The offense thing is here to stay.

The Giants got their crap together and played extremely well down the stretch, but I don't think by any means they have a dominant defense, at least not anywhere near as good as the 49ers or the Ravens.
Not to sound like a homer, but the giants have a fairly talented d and showed it when fewell learned that its ok to rush more than 3 and be aggressive. That and bringing Blackburn back instead of having rookies being signal callers on d.

And the other post on oline is spot on. I noticed it big time with the giants, bringing in 2 new starters and look totally out of synch
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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We all may want to think that, but this isn't true at all. By the playoffs most good offenses and defenses should be clicking by then, and any lingering effects of the shortened offseason should be over. Also, traditionally defenses get together more quickly in training camp than offenses which require more cohesion and timing. The offense thing is here to stay.

The Giants got their crap together and played extremely well down the stretch, but I don't think by any means they have a dominant defense, at least not anywhere near as good as the 49ers or the Ravens.
But the good defenses DID step up come playoff time in my eyes.

For instance, teams like the Lions, Packers and Saints were ousted in the NFC, and a large part of it was their defense's inability to really do anything to stop the other team.

The Giants defense got hot at the perfect time. They're aren't anywhere near the 49ers level but I don't think anyone was trying to make that argument. (I wasn't.) What they did do however was step up when it counted. Their defense went from "crap" to "good enough" and got the job done.

Also, look at the Patriots. Belichick knew how to stop Tebow and did. Their lack of pass defense didn't hurt them in that game. And they barely, barely, BARELY beat the Ravens...if Lee Evans catches that ball at the end or Cundiff makes that FG, and we're talking about a different outcome. Then they get to the Superbowl and Eli leads a hell of drive, exposing that bad pass defense, to win it.

At the end of the day, last season at least, a "good enough" defense got it done over some particularly bad ones.

And next year, things will even further out. Don't misconstrue what I'm saying, no defense is suddenly going to step up as another 85 Bears, but I strongly doubt we'll see the 31st and 32nd ranked defenses sniffing the Superbowl again. I think that was in large part due to the lockout and with a full offseason to begin gelling as a unit (something defenses need more than offenses where, if there is consistency at QB and in the coaching staff, they can hit the ground running more easily,) we won't see quite as big of offensive fireworks display all season long.

For example, I don't think any QB will throw for more than 5000 yards next year. We might see one or two guys approach it, get like 4500 maybe, but I don't think that happens again if defenses don't start off so sluggishly slow.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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I can all but guarantee that, with everyone healthy and a full offseason to implement his scheme, he goes back to his soft coverage roots.

Like I've said to BBD before, just hope he does well enough to get a head coaching job next year and then you hire someone more aggressive instead of playing this "suck for half the season (or more) then adjust" game.
Then I shall curse BBD for Fewell and his actions. Plus, if the defense stinks, BBD will probably snap, which would be fun to see!

Even though we won 2 super bowls recently, our problem has been DCs not talent.

Tim Lewis, Spags (great choice), Bill Sheridan ( 1 and done), and now Perry Fewell.

I am tired of musical chairs. Everyone praised Fewell for adjusting, and that's all good, but why did it take so damn long? He didn't think of this before hand? He finally took a leap of faith, players got healthier as the games went on, and good things happened.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Not to sound like a homer, but the giants have a fairly talented d and showed it when fewell learned that its ok to rush more than 3 and be aggressive. That and bringing Blackburn back instead of having rookies being signal callers on d.

And the other post on oline is spot on. I noticed it big time with the giants, bringing in 2 new starters and look totally out of synch
Oh no doubt they're pretty talented. I just don't think beyond the D-Line they're anything special, and I wouldn't rank them as dominant. They got a lot of good matchups with 2 teams that can't pass block at all (Falcon, Packers), Alex Smith, and a Patriots offense had their best offensive weapon effectively useless.

I also don't think the playoff run was indicative of the Giants long term level of defensive play. Teams get hot and cold, and I think the Giants Defense will eventually settle down somewhere in between their regular season play and their post-season level of play.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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T
I am tired of musical chairs. Everyone praised Fewell for adjusting, and that's all good, but why did it take so damn long? He didn't think of this before hand? He finally took a leap of faith, players got healthier as the games went on, and good things happened.
Never underestimate a coaches hubris. He'll think that his system is perfect and he'll bash his head off of a wall watching it fail before he'll ever consider changing it. And then any adjustments he does make during the season typically get undone during the offseason as he tries to reimplement his scheme.

Mike Martz in Chicago is a perfect example of this. In the 2010 season, we started off running his scheme. 5-7 step drops with receivers running complex, slow developing routes and very little emphasis on the run game. He nearly got Cutler killed and nothing was working. So, he took the bye week that year to make some adjustments...like shortening the QBs drop back, allowing some rollouts, handing off more, etc. and it worked well enough to get us to the NFC Championship game.

The next year, he was back to his old madness. He tried to use the offseason to get his scheme implemented once again instead of building off of what actually worked the season before, and we struggled early in the season. Then, he adjusted once again and we were playing extremely well at 7-3...then Cutler got hurt.

Not to fear though, right? He'll keep doing the things that were succeeding with the backup right?

Well, we went 1-5 to end the season...so you guess what happened.

Coaches do not deviate from their scheme barring extreme circumstances, like Fewell last season. And then they go right back to their scheme once they get some time to think about it.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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Oh no doubt they're pretty talented. I just don't think beyond the D-Line they're anything special, and I wouldn't rank them as dominant. They got a lot of good matchups with 2 teams that can't pass block at all (Falcon, Packers), Alex Smith, and a Patriots offense had their best offensive weapon effectively useless.

I also don't think the playoff run was indicative of the Giants long term level of defensive play. Teams get hot and cold, and I think the Giants Defense will eventually settle down somewhere in between their regular season play and their post-season level of play.
Well our DL is our Model. A model of attacking the pass rusher. It worked when Bill B was our DC, with LT, and has worked with the 2 super bowl wins. WHen you have a DL like us you don't think need have anything else.

But in our secondary we have Webster, TT, Ross, and now Prince. Ross is gone, and we have other guys who can step in. And we have Rolle and Kenny P. That's a solid group I have faith in. The person I don't have faith in is Perry Fewell.

But our model wins.. It's very simple, we have guys who can attack the pass rusher, thus limiting the QBs time to scan the field. From there he will get hit, knocked around, and sacked. That's our model. It may not be sexy, but it works.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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Those defensive ratings are extremely misleading though. Neither of those teams despite the high yardage totals were truly terrible on defense. The Patriots had a stout and disciplined front 7, and the Giants have a D line that can get after the passer.

Yardage stats like that don't really mean anything and it's the points that are important. Especially with a team like the Patriots that put up a ton of yards and hardly ever turn the ball over. Teams can get worked over in the yardage area because of penalties for hitting a QB late, pass interference, illegal contact, and others but in the red zone is where defenses tighten up. The Patriots saving grace was that the zone defenses they run work great in confined areas and teams have a much harder time making plays there. So it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see the Pats or the Packers rank 30th in yardage again and make it to the Super Bowl.

I feel the rule changes have a stronger correlation to yardage than they do to points. We won't ever see a bottom ranked team in terms of points in the SB, but there could very easily be a bottom ranked tea in yardage playing.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Those defensive ratings are extremely misleading though. Neither of those teams despite the high yardage totals were truly terrible on defense. The Patriots had a stout and disciplined front 7, and the Giants have a D line that can get after the passer.

Yardage stats like that don't really mean anything and it's the points that are important. Especially with a team like the Patriots that put up a ton of yards and hardly ever turn the ball over. Teams can get worked over in the yardage area because of penalties for hitting a QB late, pass interference, illegal contact, and others but in the red zone is where defenses tighten up. The Patriots saving grace was that the zone defenses they run work great in confined areas and teams have a much harder time making plays there. So it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see the Pats or the Packers rank 30th in yardage again and make it to the Super Bowl.

I feel the rule changes have a stronger correlation to yardage than they do to points. We won't ever see a bottom ranked team in terms of points in the SB, but there could very easily be a bottom ranked tea in yardage playing.
There was. Just last year. Several of the bottom ranked defenses were alive into the playoffs.

But last year was just kind of a flukey year for a lot of reasons, and I think we'll fall back to average a little bit starting next year.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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Once we got healthy and our DC to adjust, our defense did a hell of a job. With our talent, that's how we can play when healthy and not doing stupid stuff. The question with us is always health AND our DC. It pretty much always comes down to that. Injuries happen, and that's cool, what's not cool, is when it is focused on ONLY 1 position.. 5 CBs out, is a pain in the balls! That's what makes this super bowl win great.

We played the Pats, and GB and still managed to win. Both teams have elite QBs, and we still managed to keep those scores down. That's a credit to our talent and got to give props to stupid Perry Fewell for adjusting. However, I did see guys wide open again. So that damn issue needs to be fixed!!!!!
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Does anyone have the numbers on Lofton's contract?
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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The same New York Giants who gave up more points per game than the Patriots, Saints and Packers???

The same New York Giants who were 29th in the league against the pass???


The Giants defense stepped it up but let's not make out like they were the 85 Bears last year
That has what exactly, to do with the way the giants defense was playing in the playoffs? Perry Fewell did a horrible job with the giants talent for most of the season. But at the end he got his head out of his ass, simplified his coverages and became more aggressive to actually utilize the talent he had to work with. Once that happened the defense became very good and was a large part of the giants run, including a dominating performance against the Packers were they gave up just 6 legitimate points. The giants d was terrible for much of the season, but in the playoffs it was good, just like every team other than the Pats that had success in the playoffs and even they managed to be kinda decent once Bellicheck pulled out all his tricks.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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I can all but guarantee that, with everyone healthy and a full offseason to implement his scheme, he goes back to his soft coverage roots.

Like I've said to BBD before, just hope he does well enough to get a head coaching job next year and then you hire someone more aggressive instead of playing this "suck for half the season (or more) then adjust" game.
Nah, it's perfect for the giants. Keeps them humble and under the radar and means they have to go onto a roll just to get into the playoffs so if they get in they have momentum...but yes Perry Fewell should be a HC somewhere, like right now. Saints maybe? We'll trade him for Spags, straight up...please?...pretty please?...don't make me kidnap your kids...
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Bengals have Okoye visiting. You all jelly of our washed up first round DL
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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Nah, it's perfect for the giants. Keeps them humble and under the radar and means they have to go onto a roll just to get into the playoffs so if they get in they have momentum...but yes Perry Fewell should be a HC somewhere, like right now. Saints maybe? We'll trade him for Spags, straight up...please?...pretty please?...don't make me kidnap your kids...
I hate it when fans bank on something extremely unreliable as the key to their teams success...

You can probably look through the Giants season and find a handful of players where, if they went another way, would have ended it all. That shouldn't be the desired route to to success.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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At this point, give me some old guy with no HCing ambitions. We have stability on the offensive side of the ball, I just want that on the defensive side of the ball. So if that means having the oldest coaching staff in the NFL, fine by me, just want a DC to come in, and not stink up the joint. If he is average it's fine, because we have talent to do well. But we have had guys that flat out stunk.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Then I shall curse BBD for Fewell and his actions. Plus, if the defense stinks, BBD will probably snap, which would be fun to see!

Even though we won 2 super bowls recently, our problem has been DCs not talent.

Tim Lewis, Spags (great choice), Bill Sheridan ( 1 and done), and now Perry Fewell.

I am tired of musical chairs. Everyone praised Fewell for adjusting, and that's all good, but why did it take so damn long? He didn't think of this before hand? He finally took a leap of faith, players got healthier as the games went on, and good things happened.
It's cause he had to. If we were healthier in the defensive backfield we wouldn't have been quite as pathetic before the change and Fewell could've kept justifying his zone-adjustment coverages. Kevin Gilbride is such a bad influence on people and hopefully Fewell starts to realize that, he won't, but I can hope.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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It's cause he had to. If we were healthier in the defensive backfield we wouldn't have been quite as pathetic before the change and Fewell could've kept justifying his zone-adjustment coverages. Kevin Gilbride is such a bad influence on people and hopefully Fewell starts to realize that, he won't, but I can hope.
Health was an issue, but we were flat out blowing coverages. No one was around the offensive player. Players, usually a CB and safety said they played the right technique, and Fewell would say no.. This happened over AND over again.

The issue was communication. What Fewell was teaching was not getting communicated properly at all. Hence game after game break down after breakdown. This happened in every play off game as well and the super bowl. The left side of the field got the call, and the right side didn't, hence Wes Welker wide open in the super bowl.

So the personnel wasn't as bad as guys roaming around wide open. It was communication, and having coached, that issue is unacceptable! At least get the god damn call echoed correctly! That's pretty much step 1! If you see that happening again and again, than that's a MAJOR issue! That's one major reason I loathed that fool.

Fix the communication and your side of the ball.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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I hate it when fans bank on something extremely unreliable as the key to their teams success...

You can probably look through the Giants season and find a handful of players where, if they went another way, would have ended it all. That shouldn't be the desired route to to success.
Yeah, but it's the only way that works in New York. Something more consistent leads to the team getting cocky, looking past teams and doing stupid **** like in 2008 when we follow up our superbowl season with a dominant regular season that was followed by a 1 and done playoff run because Plax thought he was hot **** and busted a cap in his own ass...
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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