New and Improved Free Agency Discussion and News Mega-Thread - Page 538

49erNation85 · 03-04-2013, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

That's it. 49ers missing the playoffs now.

Nope we are gonna draft a kicker first time ever! I tag it in the 3rd or 4th round Hopkinds from Florida State or Sturgis from Florida.

killxswitch · 03-04-2013, 12:35 PM

Is it just me or are some of the numbers being floated out there for free agents just really off this year?

$9 mil/year for Andre Smith and Paul Kruger.
$14 mil/year for Greg Jennings
$11 mil/year for Jake Long
Mario Williams-level money for Cliff Avril

Are these guys just taking an artificially high negotiating position? Even in that context it seems absurd. None of these players are elite, and many have serious questions about health, work ethic, or true talent level.

coordinator0 · 03-04-2013, 12:44 PM

I can see why Kruger has been rumored to be getting a nice contract. He's had 20 sacks over the last two years in the regular season and playoffs. I don't know if I would want him at that much money because the only role he's been effective in is as a situational pass-rusher but it is what it is. Guys who rush the passer and produce get paid.

thebow305 · 03-04-2013, 12:57 PM

Cowboys to tag Anthony Spencer. Damn.
https://twitter.com/JordanWoy/status/308649790948909056

LonghornsLegend · 03-04-2013, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebow305

Cowboys to tag Anthony Spencer. Damn.
https://twitter.com/JordanWoy/status/308649790948909056

Wow, that's a huge shocker to me. That is pretty much all our FA spending money right there so we may as well consider that a wrap. That said we didn't have any holes outside of the LE spot. Safety still sucks and we need a SLB to play with Lee and Carter, among the upgrade at RG, but I can't argue with this because I wanted to see him play LE for years.

He's an absolute perfect fit, and he has to play at a high level to get big dollars next year so we should get max effort. Now maybe we can focus on Cooper in the draft and Matt Elam maybe in the 2nd?

jrdrylie · 03-04-2013, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killxswitch

Is it just me or are some of the numbers being floated out there for free agents just really off this year?

$9 mil/year for Andre Smith and Paul Kruger.
$14 mil/year for Greg Jennings
$11 mil/year for Jake Long
Mario Williams-level money for Cliff Avril

Are these guys just taking an artificially high negotiating position? Even in that context it seems absurd. None of these players are elite, and many have serious questions about health, work ethic, or true talent level.

Avril isn't getting Mario Williams money. And nobody ever said he would. He said he would like to get that kind of money. Well, yeah. Who wouldn't want $50 million guaranteed? But nobody ever said he deserves it or would get anywhere close to that.

Two years ago Doug Free got $8 million so Andre Smith and Jake long could easily get $10 million-plus.

Monomach · 03-04-2013, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killxswitch

Is it just me or are some of the numbers being floated out there for free agents just really off this year?

$9 mil/year for Andre Smith and Paul Kruger.
$14 mil/year for Greg Jennings
$11 mil/year for Jake Long
Mario Williams-level money for Cliff Avril

Are these guys just taking an artificially high negotiating position? Even in that context it seems absurd. None of these players are elite, and many have serious questions about health, work ethic, or true talent level.

One of those guys is elite. Andre Smith is the best right tackle in the NFL.

His weight and work ethic questions have been answered, but now there's the gun in an airport thing...

Of course, I still don't think the best RT is really worth 9 mil a year unless his QB is left-handed...

Monomach · 03-04-2013, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrdrylie

Avril isn't getting Mario Williams money. And nobody ever said he would. He said he would like to get that kind of money. Well, yeah. Who wouldn't want $50 million guaranteed? But nobody ever said he deserves it or would get anywhere close to that.

Two years ago Doug Free got $8 million so Andre Smith and Jake long could easily get $10 million-plus.

Doug Free was a left tackle coming off of a really good year, though. He didn't turn into a terrible right tackle until later, lol.

Wootylicous · 03-04-2013, 01:40 PM

Andre Smith is not the best right tackle in the NFL.

Monomach · 03-04-2013, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wootylicous

Andre Smith is not the best right tackle in the NFL.

Nobody knows about it, but I have to agree with pro football focus on this one...he really is. Over the past two seasons, his pass protection has been really damned good and his run blocking has been dominant.

Don Vito · 03-04-2013, 01:44 PM

Andre Smith has become a very good lineman but I wouldn't rank him above Vollmer or Anthony Davis. There a a few other guys we could put in there as well. I wouldn't say there is a clear cut best guy who you can distinctly say is the "best right tackle in the NFL". I think it all boils down to who you are willing to go to bat for because there is a group of 5 or 6 players you could argue are Pro Bowl caliber right tackles, Smith is definitely a part of that group though.

Bengals78 · 03-04-2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wootylicous

Andre Smith is not the best right tackle in the NFL.

Yes he is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

Nobody knows about it, but I have to agree with pro football focus on this one...he really is. Over the past two seasons, his pass protection has been really damned good and his run blocking has been dominant.

His pass pro has graded higher than run blocking the last 2 seasons. Which I partially attribute to his playing with Mike McGlynn and a rookie RG most of the time. And having a TE who can't block.

He had 2 bad games in 2012. And blanked his guys the rest.

Wootylicous · 03-04-2013, 01:46 PM

Have you ever heard of Vollmer and Davis ?

edit : Don Vito beat me to it.

scottyboy · 03-04-2013, 01:47 PM

Anthony Davis went to Rutgers and plays right tackle sooooo all other logic loses

killxswitch · 03-04-2013, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrdrylie

Avril isn't getting Mario Williams money. And nobody ever said he would. He said he would like to get that kind of money. Well, yeah. Who wouldn't want $50 million guaranteed? But nobody ever said he deserves it or would get anywhere close to that.

Two years ago Doug Free got $8 million so Andre Smith and Jake long could easily get $10 million-plus.

Doug Free, at that time, was seen as a very good young (26 or 27) LEFT tackle that the Cowboys did a good job developing. He was a proven player with no serious injury history. It looks bad in hindsight but at the time I remember the Bucs and Cowboys were in a bidding war for him. Andre Smith only became "elite" recently after FAILING at LT. He plays RT, which is hardly a premium position. So he should not get that kind of consideration. Long is older now than Free was when he got the contract, he's ended two seasons on IR, and hasn't played all that well. The idea of either player getting $10+ million per year is crazy to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

One of those guys is elite. Andre Smith is the best right tackle in the NFL.

His weight and work ethic questions have been answered, but now there's the gun in an airport thing...

Of course, I still don't think the best RT is really worth 9 mil a year unless his QB is left-handed...

You pretty much answered the way I would have. Elite RT just means getting paid like a mid-tier starting LT. Eric Winston (last year's elite RT free agent) signed for 4 years, $22 million, with $8.4 guaranteed. Why the hell should Smith get anywhere near $9 or $10 million per year at the same position?

thebow305 · 03-04-2013, 01:50 PM

Michael Oher or David Stewart anyone?

vidae · 03-04-2013, 01:53 PM

Sorry bros, Eric Winston is the best RT in the NFL.

killxswitch · 03-04-2013, 01:54 PM

See? Stewart, Davis, Oher, Winston, Vollmer. You can make a case for any of them or for Smith. I doubt any of them ever make anything approaching $9 million a year in their career.

Bengals78 · 03-04-2013, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killxswitch

Doug Free, at that time, was seen as a very good young (26 or 27) LEFT tackle that the Cowboys did a good job developing. He was a proven player with no serious injury history. It looks bad in hindsight but at the time I remember the Bucs and Cowboys were in a bidding war for him. Andre Smith only became "elite" recently after FAILING at LT. He plays RT, which is hardly a premium position. So he should not get that kind of consideration. Long is older now than Free was when he got the contract, he's ended two seasons on IR, and hasn't played all that well. The idea of either player getting $10+ million per year is crazy to me.

Please elaborate.

Monomach · 03-04-2013, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito

Andre Smith has become a very good lineman but I wouldn't rank him above Vollmer or Anthony Davis. There a a few other guys we could put in there as well. I wouldn't say there is a clear cut best guy who you can distinctly say is the "best right tackle in the NFL". I think it all boils down to who you are willing to go to bat for because there is a group of 5 or 6 players you could argue are Pro Bowl caliber right tackles, Smith is definitely a part of that group though.

PFF says:
Andre Smith +26.9
Gosder Cherilus +23.5
Anthony Davis +22.4
Sebastian Vollmer +21.5

Doesn't seem too disagreeable to me.

Best linemen at each position:
LT Joe Staley +40.4
LG Evan mathis +51.3
C John Sullivan +27.3
RG Marshall Yanda +24.2
RT Andre Smith +26.9

49ers had a top 3 lineman at every position except center, and he was top 10. Ridiculous.

K Train · 03-04-2013, 02:02 PM

did cherilus turn the corner that hard?

killxswitch · 03-04-2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengals78

Please elaborate.

On what? He got injured and then moved to RT. He was drafted to play LT and he doesn't play LT. What is there to elaborate on?

Wootylicous · 03-04-2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

PFF says:
Andre Smith +26.9
Gosder Cherilus +23.5
Anthony Davis +22.4
Sebastian Vollmer +21.5

Doesn't seem too disagreeable to me.

Best linemen at each position:
LT Joe Staley +40.4
LG Evan mathis +51.3
C John Sullivan +27.3
RG Marshall Yanda +24.2
RT Andre Smith +26.9

49ers had a top 3 lineman at every position except center, and he was top 10. Ridiculous.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...nsive-lines/4/

Quote:

Stud: If not for a spell where injury took him off the field and then slowed him down while on it, it’s fair to say Sebastian Vollmer (+21.5) would have been our top ranked right tackle. He was that good.

Yeah it's disagreeable.

Bengals78 · 03-04-2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killxswitch

On what? He got injured and then moved to RT. He was drafted to play LT and he doesn't play LT. What is there to elaborate on?

You should re-read what you wrote. Then probably go away.
Andre was never drafted to play LT.
He was drafted to play RT.
He plays RT.

The only part you got right was he got hurt.
Now go away.

thebow305 · 03-04-2013, 02:07 PM

They're all awesome. But not as awesome as Jon Martin...

I kid, I kid.