New and Improved Free Agency Discussion and News Mega-Thread - Page 556

vidae · 03-09-2013, 02:03 PM

Something that a lot of people don't understand is that this is a business, and when it comes to your money, players always look out for numero uno first. And they should.

It's always about the money. Always. Winning is a close second, but it is a second.

LonghornsLegend · 03-09-2013, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinslowBodden

Why are you getting personal exactly? I understand how contract negotiations go, I am a business major and understand market value, I am not ******* stupid. Just because that is how they go, doesn't mean I cannot think they paid a large premium for him based on his overall skill set, even if their hand was forced.

I never even took a shot at you at any point nor did I say Flacco didn't play well in the post season, this whole thing was about Boldin getting ****** over because they had to give Flacco such a large contract even though Boldin was a HUGE reason for Flacco's success in the post season if not the biggest reason for his success.

When did I take a shot at you or get personal? Try to stay on topic here, I never even slightly got personal. I said you don't understand contract negotiations or timing of these things because your acting like what happened here was so weird. Both Flacco, and the Ravens took a gamble, Flacco won and got paid rightfully. I also don't think Boldin got screwed over, he's 32 years old, so I guess we should fully expect him to not drop off in play at all right? And if he does then they are overpaying him, the same thing your blaming them for doing with Flacco.

Quote:

Where do I discredit Flacco and say he sucks or anything? Once again, I simply stated that Boldin was a huge reason for Flacco's success (go back and read this statement again because it has seemed to elude you as you are more concerned with getting angry and not reading anything I actually say while constantly questioning my intelligence).

Again, Boldin was a huge success, and they are planning on getting rid of him. If they plan on being successful as a team moving forward they better find another target that Flacco can trust to make catches in tight coverage and move the chains the way Boldin did. Currently they do not have anyone else on the roster that can step up and do what Boldin did, and I think it will show early for the Ravens.

Also, without Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, Boldin ETC. I don't see this team being nearly as good as they were last year in one of the toughest divisions in football.

But hey, I guess allocating one sixth of your total cap space to one player and not keeping his favorite target is a recipe for success today.

I've done or said nothing to even remotely sound angry, stop being so sensitive. Boldin was a huge reason for his success, when did I deny that he wasn't? What I asked you in return to that, was when was the last time a QB had a good post season run and didn't have 1 skill position player come through and produce big time? You never answered that, because you wouldn't be able to find one. Boldin did play great, but there are still decisions to be made about his contract and future going forward.

Every team with a top tier QB has to figure out how to make their cap situation work with a ton of money tied up into the QB position, this is nothing new. Do you think they would be better off like the Browns? They have no QB and a ton of money to spend, does that sound better?

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

I suppose there's that, but at the same time...Does it make sense to you to want $20 million a season if it means losing a vital part of your team? To me, when you're speaking in those amounts of dollars, you have to look beyond avarice and start thinking about how your greed is going to impact your success on the field. It seems counter intuitive to me.

IMO, I don't think it's Flacco's responsibility to be trying to take money off of his contract to fit everyone else under the cap. How many athletes actually do this? When Brees was getting his contract I don't remember him trying to shave money off the top to ensure everyone else got signed. They probably don't have much money to sign Jimmy Graham to a mega contract maybe he should restructure and take 3-4 back to put on the cap. He brought home a SB, he deserves every penny. I'd be more then willing to go through a 1-2 year rebuild and lose some players to win the SB and lock up our franchise QB vs not have the Lombardi trophy but have more cap space.

I guess I just don't understand why everyone wants Flacco to do the moral thing and take millions of dollars less when nobody else is expected to do the same. Also, unless I'm mistaken, his cap hit this year isn't that high to begin with so they were going to have issues with Boldin and his cap hit this year anyway.

BallerT1215 · 03-09-2013, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

Something that a lot of people don't understand is that this is a business, and when it comes to your money, players always look out for numero uno first. And they should.

It's always about the money. Always. Winning is a close second, but it is a second.

Yeah....well....go resign one of your players from last years team again. : )

vidae · 03-09-2013, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallerT1215

Yeah....well....go resign one of your players from last years team again. : )

I think the only one left is Glenn Dorsey, and I really hope we don't re-sign him! :D

WinslowBodden · 03-09-2013, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

So they would have been better off to let Flacco walk so that they could keep Boldin around? And have who throw to him?

Once again people putting words in my mouth.

They can afford to keep Boldin, and they are choosing not to. I think this is a bad decision and will impact Flacco's ability to excel next year.

It is an opinion, and no where did I state they shouldn't have paid Flacco. It was the market rate and I think he is getting overpaid greatly and that it will turn out to hurt the Ravens.

Nikolas · 03-09-2013, 02:42 PM

I don't blame Boldin for not taking a pay cut. Players destroy their bodies for this game, and deserve to get compensated. He got his ring, and it's not like he can't find a job somewhere else. I'm sure Indy would love to pick him up as a target for Luck, and lord knows they have plenty of cap space (just as an example).

BmoreBlackByrdz · 03-09-2013, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

When did I take a shot at you or get personal? Try to stay on topic here, I never even slightly got personal. I said you don't understand contract negotiations or timing of these things because your acting like what happened here was so weird. Both Flacco, and the Ravens took a gamble, Flacco won and got paid rightfully. I also don't think Boldin got screwed over, he's 32 years old, so I guess we should fully expect him to not drop off in play at all right? And if he does then they are overpaying him, the same thing your blaming them for doing with Flacco.

I've done or said nothing to even remotely sound angry, stop being so sensitive. Boldin was a huge reason for his success, when did I deny that he wasn't? What I asked you in return to that, was when was the last time a QB had a good post season run and didn't have 1 skill position player come through and produce big time? You never answered that, because you wouldn't be able to find one. Boldin did play great, but there are still decisions to be made about his contract and future going forward.

Every team with a top tier QB has to figure out how to make their cap situation work with a ton of money tied up into the QB position, this is nothing new. Do you think they would be better off like the Browns? They have no QB and a ton of money to spend, does that sound better?

IMO, I don't think it's Flacco's responsibility to be trying to take money off of his contract to fit everyone else under the cap. How many athletes actually do this? When Brees was getting his contract I don't remember him trying to shave money off the top to ensure everyone else got signed. They probably don't have much money to sign Jimmy Graham to a mega contract maybe he should restructure and take 3-4 back to put on the cap. He brought home a SB, he deserves every penny. I'd be more then willing to go through a 1-2 year rebuild and lose some players to win the SB and lock up our franchise QB vs not have the Lombardi trophy but have more cap space.

I guess I just don't understand why everyone wants Flacco to do the moral thing and take millions of dollars less when nobody else is expected to do the same. Also, unless I'm mistaken, his cap hit this year isn't that high to begin with so they were going to have issues with Boldin and his cap hit this year anyway.

love the points you are making man, would +rep you but apparently I already have.

Anyways, yeah, Flacco's contract is structured to give the Ravens more flexibility now(so it's not like he totally screwed the Ravens like people seem to think) but Joe Linta even said that it would probably have to get re-visited in 2016-2018.

BallerT1215 · 03-09-2013, 03:53 PM

Does "deep talks" insinuate Powers and Chargers brass are holding hands while negotiating.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5139/jerraud-powers
"The Chargers are expected to have "deep talks" with free agent CB Jerraud Powers.
New Bolts GM Tom Telesco was in Indianapolis' front office when Powers was drafted. Like the Colts, the Chargers are needy at cornerback but have quite a bit less cap space to spend. Powers should be cheaper than Antoine Cason. M"

RCAChainGang · 03-09-2013, 04:06 PM

I'm not sure, but I know the Colts want Powers back despite all the injuries he seems to get. He has stated he wants to come back to the Colts so it will be very interesting to see how it all goes down.

bigbluedefense · 03-09-2013, 04:13 PM

When a franchise qb like Flacco gets paid, you're gonna lose players around him. That's why its up to that franchise qb to make the players around him better, and elevate the play of whoever steps in for lost players.

That's what franchise quarterbacks do, and what we expect Flacco to do moving forward. That's the litmus test for a good qb. Can he make those around him better? If the answer is no, then he's not a franchise qb and you are in all likelihood going to have to look for someone else to build the team around.

I think Flacco is starting to reach that level, and will develop into this kind of player. He's young, he's only going to get better and we've seen signs of improvement. But in order for this contract to work out, they're taking the leap of faith in the understanding that Flacco will become that guy and elevate those around him to make up for his cap hit.

It's similar to Eli Manning. I remember when everyone was like lulz overrated and overpaid. Turns out he was worth every penny he got. You have to project talent. You can't just look at the bottomline as a black and white picture.

G Mobile · 03-09-2013, 04:24 PM

Flacco's new deal is pretty team friendly at first so his contract isn't why Boldin might be cut. Boldin is set to make 6 mil and said that he wouldn't play anywhere else but Baltimore. So the Ravens said they would cut his pay a lot and Boldin has balked at that. He still might reduce his contract a little and stay with the team. This is just a negotiation through the media.

coordinator0 · 03-09-2013, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G Mobile

Flacco's new deal is pretty team friendly at first so his contract isn't why Boldin might be cut. Boldin is set to make 6 mil and said that he wouldn't play anywhere else but Baltimore. So the Ravens said they would cut his pay a lot and Boldin has balked at that. He still might reduce his contract a little and stay with the team. This is just a negotiation through the media.

Exactly. People need to stop taking the easy "blame Flacco's new deal" stance since that isn't what's leading to the Boldin drama. Boldin actually has a bigger cap hit for next season than Flacco does. Trying to re-sign Ellerbe and/or Reed is likely the biggest culprit.

I really hope they don't lose Boldin to just overpay those guys though. Ellerbe can be replaced and while Reed is still somewhat important to the defense he's not a guy that deserves a bigger contract either.

Matthew Jones · 03-09-2013, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G Mobile

Flacco's new deal is pretty team friendly at first so his contract isn't why Boldin might be cut. Boldin is set to make 6 mil and said that he wouldn't play anywhere else but Baltimore. So the Ravens said they would cut his pay a lot and Boldin has balked at that. He still might reduce his contract a little and stay with the team. This is just a negotiation through the media.

Technically he's set to make just over $7.5 million, with about $6 million in cap savings. I see nothing wrong with what Baltimore is doing there, considering that $7.5 million is too much for someone who caught 65-921-4. Brandon Lloyd was equally productive (74-911-4), but took a lot of heat all season from fans for not living up to his contract, which had an average annual value of $5 million. With Boldin contributing 57.5 yards per game (or 61.4 if you exclude the game he missed), that'd be a spot where I'd rather reinvest than pay someone who's turning 33 out of sentimentality over the previous season. Does he have value as a sure-handed possession receiver and leader? Sure. Is that worth $7.5 million? No.

fenikz · 03-09-2013, 04:52 PM

@Cardschatter
More roster moves: @azcardinals release WR Early Doucet, and confirm tender of second round to RFA QB Brian Hoyer.

The @AZCardinals also tender exclusive rights FAs RB William Powell, RB Alfonso Smith and DE Ronald Talley.

coordinator0 · 03-09-2013, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

Technically he's set to make just over $7.5 million, with about $6 million in cap savings. I see nothing wrong with what Baltimore is doing there, considering that $7.5 million is too much for someone who caught 65-921-4. Brandon Lloyd was equally productive (74-911-4), but took a lot of heat all season from fans for not living up to his contract, which had an average annual value of $5 million. With Boldin contributing 57.5 yards per game (or 61.4 if you exclude the game he missed), that'd be a spot where I'd rather reinvest than pay someone who's turning 33 out of sentimentality over the previous season. Does he have value as a sure-handed possession receiver and leader? Sure. Is that worth $7.5 million? No.

Boldin's cap hit is about $7.5 million and his salary for this season is $6 million. The extra million and a half comes from the bonus which was prorated when he signed an extension after Baltimore traded for him. He's making $6 million this season (if he isn't cut).

BallerT1215 · 03-09-2013, 05:25 PM

Anyone else scared their team is going to do something stupid on Tuesday.

Like "we just blew the offseason" on 1st day stupid.

WinslowBodden · 03-09-2013, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallerT1215

Anyone else scared their team is going to do something stupid on Tuesday.

Like "we just blew the offseason" on 1st day stupid.

Yeah not sign anyone even though we have a million holes that could be fixed in this free agency.

BallerT1215 · 03-09-2013, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinslowBodden

Yeah not sign anyone even though we have a million holes that could be fixed in this free agency.

Buffalo...Cleveland...

We just do what we do....yikes

bearsfan_51 · 03-09-2013, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinslowBodden

Once again people putting words in my mouth.

You are way too butthurt/sensitive. I asked you a question. That's what this (?) means.

BallerT1215 · 03-09-2013, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

You are way too butthurt/sensitive. I asked you a question. That's what this (?) means.

Withey's reaction/dance moves in the background of your sig cracks me up.

bearsfan_51 · 03-09-2013, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

Apparently, the Bears aren't even going to tender RFA DT Nate Collins. Stupid. He was really solid in the rotation this year.

I think he's getting screwed because the new DC was his DC in Jacksonville when they gave him away. Probably didn't even watch last year's film on him.

The lowest they could tender him would have been 1.32 million. It's not stupid to let him walk when he's our 4th defensive tackle at that money.

WinslowBodden · 03-09-2013, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

You are way too butthurt/sensitive. I asked you a question. That's what this (?) means.

Where do I say it would have been a good idea to let Flacco walk, and why was it asked rhetorically. I never said that, you ask the question as if that was something I had previously implied and I didn't. I never said the Ravens shouldn't have kept Flacco, but that he is getting paid more than he is worth (which is sadly the market value for him right now).

All I said was that letting Boldin go is a mistake in my opinion.

SuperPacker · 03-09-2013, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinslowBodden

All I said was that letting Boldin go is a mistake in my opinion.

You also implied that it was an unclassy move. Why exactly was it unclassy?

robert pancake gallery · 03-09-2013, 05:54 PM

you can argue this all day, but the bottom line is that flacco got paid for what boldin did in the playoffs... for better or for worse, ignoring the fact that boldin is old and flacco is a certified franchise quarterback. the media makes it worse by calling it an 'ultimatum' and trying to stir the pot, it is what it is and the ravens still have some good (albeit still relatively unproven) receivers.

Monomach · 03-09-2013, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

The lowest they could tender him would have been 1.32 million. It's not stupid to let him walk when he's our 4th defensive tackle at that money.

He got the 3rd-most snaps at DT, not 4th...and he was more productive on a per-snap basis than the guy he was the primary backup for (Paea).

We'll probably end up throwing that money at the rotting carcass of what used to be Brian Urlacher instead so he can again challenge for the league lead in missed tackle %.