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Old 03-11-2013, 07:55 PM    (permalink
NY+Giants=NYG
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Originally Posted by BallerT1215 View Post
The Giants have a nice little trio of Nicks-Cruz-Randle. They should really try to keep that together. Especially when you consider how injury prone Nicks has been as of late.
Yeah that would be great, but we have to re-sign Nicks and JPP. If re-signing Cruz means losing 1 or both, then that's not good. Also, as long as Eli has been we have set a price for players, if they leave, we have relied on Eli to carry the team.

Burress
Shockey
Toomer
Boss
Ballard
Jacobs
Ward
Ware
Bradshaw
Smith
Manningham

and now looks to be losing

Hixon, Barden, MB and beckum


So while I dislike the turnover, I think Reese and Mara trust in Eli in making guys better around him. I hope we can re-sign Cruz, but if not a 1st rounder is a nice way to add more talent to the team.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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The thing is they really haven't done anything to justify being the favorites yet. They went 11-5 last year, and had a lot go right along the way to get there. The thing in most situations like this is people project everything to continue to move forward and rarely it does. The what ifs are much more relevant to Seattle because these are contingencies that they haven't experienced yet. We know Denver, New England, and Green Bay will be fine as long as nothing happens to Manning, Brady, or Rodgers. San Fran is even more balanced and talented than Seattle, are better coached, and have playoff experience as well, and Baltimore is balanced and has experienced every injury and contingency at this point.

This Seattle type team exists every year, and rarely is it the team that comes away with the SB in the end. I think Seattle have an outstanding shot at winning it all in the next 5 years, but their status as present favorites rests far too much on potential rather than consistent results. Let them prove that they can have consecutive winning seasons before declaring them favorites.
They went 11-5 last year, seconds away from the NFCCG with an extremely young team and return almost all of it and add a guy who was in the MVP conversation last year to their one position of need. And their QB finished the season playing as well as any QB in the entire NFL.

Their defense has developed into an awesome unit since PC got there. Lynch is fairly proven. And everything they did last year was as non-flukey as it gets. I don't know what else you need to see. They were seconds away from the NFCCG and had one of the best point differentials in the NFL...

Your entire point is that teams get hype and sometimes don't live up to it. That's ridiculous. How about making an argument against the Seahawks that has to do with the Seahawks.

And the Seahawks are probably THE most talented team in the NFL from top to bottom. They'll need to add a DT or two and their RT could be better. And Nickel CB. That's it lol. The Niners don't have a starting FS - that's pretty important. Their most important defensive player is aging and coming off of an injury. The only time the Hawks played Kaep's 49ers they were absolutely stomped.

And again, their QB is 24 and made HUGE strides, finishing off the season playing as well as any QB in the league.

It'll be on Wilson. If you think they don't live up to the hype then you don't trust Wilson. Which is fine. I trust a guy who's done nothing but work tirelessly and get better every single game and make his teammates better.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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Yeah that would be great, but we have to re-sign Nicks and JPP. If re-signing Cruz means losing 1 or both, then that's not good. Also, as long as Eli has been we have set a price for players, if they leave, we have relied on Eli to carry the team.

Burress
Shockey
Toomer
Boss
Ballard
Jacobs
Ward
Ware
Bradshaw
Smith
Manningham

and now looks to be losing

Hixon, Barden, MB and beckum


So while I dislike the turnover, I think Reese and Mara trust in Eli in making guys better around him. I hope we can re-sign Cruz, but if not a 1st rounder is a nice way to add more talent to the team.
I just had this conversation.

Cruz is a good player. He drops too many balls but he's good.

But Eli makes literally any receiver look good.

I would guarantee Cruz wouldn't be nearly as effective in another offense (except maybe NE if Welker left).

It's tough to sign two WRs to huge deals given that it's one of the easiest positions to find.

I think in the end they get the first rounder. I think they wanted to make an offer just so the fans didn't go crazy about not trying to re-sign a fan favorite. They're hoping someone bites and they get a first.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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@kentsomers
S Rashad Johnson will return to #azcardinals. 3-year deal

I wonder how much, anything under 4 and im happy
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Dumervil is asking for his release now.

That situation became toxic rather quickly.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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As he should. What the hell did they think would happen. There's no reason he should accept a pay cut.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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I like Doom more than Avril or Kruger in a 3-4. Let him go Donks!
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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They went 11-5 last year, seconds away from the NFCCG with an extremely young team and return almost all of it and add a guy who was in the MVP conversation last year to their one position of need. And their QB finished the season playing as well as any QB in the entire NFL.

Their defense has developed into an awesome unit since PC got there. Lynch is fairly proven. And everything they did last year was as non-flukey as it gets. I don't know what else you need to see. They were seconds away from the NFCCG and had one of the best point differentials in the NFL...

Your entire point is that teams get hype and sometimes don't live up to it. That's ridiculous. How about making an argument against the Seahawks that has to do with the Seahawks.

And the Seahawks are probably THE most talented team in the NFL from top to bottom. They'll need to add a DT or two and their RT could be better. And Nickel CB. That's it lol. The Niners don't have a starting FS - that's pretty important. Their most important defensive player is aging and coming off of an injury. The only time the Hawks played Kaep's 49ers they were absolutely stomped.

And again, their QB is 24 and made HUGE strides, finishing off the season playing as well as any QB in the league.

It'll be on Wilson. If you think they don't live up to the hype then you don't trust Wilson. Which is fine. I trust a guy who's done nothing but work tirelessly and get better every single game and make his teammates better.
No, my point is that like most teams that are young and showed great improvement from one year to the next, Seattle's SB hopes lie on the assumption that nobody will regress and they'll take a similar step forward the next year. Your answer perfectly explains why there is good reason to be wary of picking the Seahawks to be SB champions.

Teams NEVER progress in a linear pattern. Players rise and other players drop off. Last season the Hawks had multiple players rise in the same year. They had a rookie QB who put up a 100 QB rating season, it's going to be fairly hard to replicate that especially with presumably more emphasis placed on his ability to throw the football.

Lynch has played great the past 2 seasons, but he's logged a bunch of carries and has a running style that puts him at significant risk for injuries. Turbin is fine, but the Seahawks take a big hit if anything happens to Lynch.

Rice stayed healthy last year and Golden Tate didn't play like hot garbage for once, will that happen again?

Russell Okung played lights out last season, does he repeat it?

The Seahawks have 1 proven pass rusher in Chris Clemons. If something happens to him, can they get consistent pressure without risking the run liability Bruce Irvin on every down?

The Seahawks have 3 starters in the secondary with below average speed, if something happens to Thomas is it going to have a cumulative effect on Browner, Sherman, and Chancellor who've all struggled with speed at different points in their career?

In all likelihood some of the players who had career years last year will struggle or get hurt, and new players will emerge. It happens to everyone. The Seahawks I think are another year away. They need to define who they are a little more, they need to face a little more adversity, and they need to prove that they can beat the big playoff contenders before they should be considered a favorite.

I see a 12-4 season ahead of them where they're a bit more consistent than last year and a more dangerous team overall, but not consistent or resilient enough to make it the whole way.

Seattle may be a tad more talented than New England, Green Bay, Baltimore, and Denver, but it's not a significant gap, and certainly one that isn't essentially entirely closed by the difference in QB play and experience.

And San Francisco is more talented than Seattle with that crap...

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Old 03-11-2013, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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Dumervil is asking for his release now.

That situation became toxic rather quickly.
From his agent: “There’s no animosity, whatsoever. Elvis understands this is a business. He loves the Broncos and he’d still like to come back and play for the Broncos under his current contract or restructure proposal that we sent them. But if we can’t reach common ground and you know as an organization that you’re going to release him, then we’d like for them to release him by (2) p.m. tomorrow and not wait another four days. No hard feelings. We just disagree on their restructure option.”

He's not so much asking to be released as asking that, if they are going to release him, they do it tomorrow rather than Saturday so he can be available when teams have all their cap space still available.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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I just had this conversation.

Cruz is a good player. He drops too many balls but he's good.

But Eli makes literally any receiver look good.

I would guarantee Cruz wouldn't be nearly as effective in another offense (except maybe NE if Welker left).

It's tough to sign two WRs to huge deals given that it's one of the easiest positions to find.

I think in the end they get the first rounder. I think they wanted to make an offer just so the fans didn't go crazy about not trying to re-sign a fan favorite. They're hoping someone bites and they get a first.
Yeah 11 drops is unacceptable. That's something he needs to focus on. Yeah, well see I think to a certain extent he would be successful, but I don't think he has the success he has with us. Same with Steve Smith when he was with us. He was a different player than Cruz, but played the same positions and was a pro bowler. He got hurt, left, and now has fell completely off the planet.

It's one of the easiest positions to find in other systems. For us, specifically at the slot spot it's hard to find. Cruz almost got cut, and then we brought in Stokely to compete. That pushed Cruz, and once Stokley got hurt, Cruz filled in and the rest is history.


It will come down to how much the contract is. Cruz fired his agent and hired Condon, who is Eli's agent and kiwi's agent. So we are all hoping that means Cruz takes the original offer and gets re-signed. If a new team steps in and really ups it, then I will take the 1st round pick and be fine with it.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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Completely agree with cmarq83. The media (ESPN is obviously the worst offender) loves to oversimplify things. "Look this team was good last year, has good talent, and now they have made these additions, therefore they will be great". It could play out like that, but there are SO many factors that go into a season that can easily unpredictably change from year to year. Just look at what happened to the Eagles. A good team, that made big name additions, but it just didn't work out like planned and now they are struggling.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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I was wondering how long it would take for people to start over hyping Seattle. Most talented team in the NFL? Seriously get out.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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I understand Dumervil rejecting the paycut - here is a guy that suffered a season ending injury not long ago and knows stuff can happen at any moment, at which point if you cant produce, the team doesnt want you and cuts you.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/sta...99421113573377

TB and DET reported favorites for Goldson.

DET is being linked to all these free agents, I'm not expecting anything though.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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Titans LG Steve Hutchinson will announce his retirement from the NFL on Tuesday.

5 1st team All-Pros
2 2nd team All Pros
All Decade 2000s

He has an excellent HOF chance.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/sta...99421113573377

TB and DET reported favorites for Goldson.

DET is being linked to all these free agents, I'm not expecting anything though.
Goldson to Tampa? I like it. Mark Barron needs help.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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I was wondering how long it would take for people to start over hyping Seattle. Most talented team in the NFL? Seriously get out.
They are right up there at the top, no question about that. The most talented? Tough to say.
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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I don't know man, two years of edging into the playoffs and missing them last year doesn't scream of a guy capable of carrying a team. Don't get me wrong he did win a SB in that timeframe with a masterful post season but even Giants fans can't be happy with his inconsistent play in the regular season, at least it wouldn't make me confident. You guys have drafted well and I think Randall was a steal but he's no Cruz. Not yet any way.

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Yeah that would be great, but we have to re-sign Nicks and JPP. If re-signing Cruz means losing 1 or both, then that's not good. Also, as long as Eli has been we have set a price for players, if they leave, we have relied on Eli to carry the team.

Burress
Shockey
Toomer
Boss
Ballard
Jacobs
Ward
Ware
Bradshaw
Smith
Manningham

and now looks to be losing

Hixon, Barden, MB and beckum


So while I dislike the turnover, I think Reese and Mara trust in Eli in making guys better around him. I hope we can re-sign Cruz, but if not a 1st rounder is a nice way to add more talent to the team.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Goldson to Tampa? I like it. Mark Barron needs help.
haha yeah our secondary sucks :(

We need any help we can get. I expect the Bucs to go hard after multiple DB's.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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No, my point is that like most teams that are young and showed great improvement from one year to the next, Seattle's SB hopes lie on the assumption that nobody will regress and they'll take a similar step forward the next year. Your answer perfectly explains why there is good reason to be wary of picking the Seahawks to be SB champions.

Teams NEVER progress in a linear pattern. Players rise and other players drop off. Last season the Hawks had multiple players rise in the same year. They had a rookie QB who put up a 100 QB rating season, it's going to be fairly hard to replicate that especially with presumably more emphasis placed on his ability to throw the football.

Lynch has played great the past 2 seasons, but he's logged a bunch of carries and has a running style that puts him at significant risk for injuries. Turbin is fine, but the Seahawks take a big hit if anything happens to Lynch.

Rice stayed healthy last year and Golden Tate didn't play like hot garbage for once, will that happen again?

Russell Okung played lights out last season, does he repeat it?

The Seahawks have 1 proven pass rusher in Chris Clemons. If something happens to him, can they get consistent pressure without risking the run liability Bruce Irvin on every down?

The Seahawks have 3 starters in the secondary with below average speed, if something happens to Thomas is it going to have a cumulative effect on Browner, Sherman, and Chancellor who've all struggled with speed at different points in their career?

In all likelihood some of the players who had career years last year will struggle or get hurt, and new players will emerge. It happens to everyone. The Seahawks I think are another year away. They need to define who they are a little more, they need to face a little more adversity, and they need to prove that they can beat the big playoff contenders before they should be considered a favorite.

I see a 12-4 season ahead of them where they're a bit more consistent than last year and a more dangerous team overall, but not consistent or resilient enough to make it the whole way.

Seattle may be a tad more talented than New England, Green Bay, Baltimore, and Denver, but it's not a significant gap, and certainly one that isn't essentially entirely closed by the difference in QB play and experience.

And San Francisco is more talented than Seattle with that crap...
I don't even understand this line of thinking. They don't deserve to be called a favorite but you think they'll go 12-and-freaking-4?

The pass rush is your only valid point.

Otherwise you are just bringing up injuries which are pointless to speculate about especially for guys like Lynch and Thomas.

Yes if the best freaking FS in the league went down it would have a negative affect on our secondary - that's an excellent point... we don't deserve to be the favorites because if our best player went down that would hurt our team. awesome.

The Seattle-SF gap was closed today. Harvin and Lynch are the best offensive players on either team aside from the QBs. And like I said - the 49ers don't have a FS right now, big questions at CB. And Justin Smith is aging and coming off a big drop-off due to injury.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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The Legion of Boom is probably the most well rounded secondary in a long long time in the NFL.

Just for that, they vault to favorites.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Guru View Post
I don't know man, two years of edging into the playoffs and missing them last year doesn't scream of a guy capable of carrying a team. Don't get me wrong he did win a SB in that timeframe with a masterful post season but even Giants fans can't be happy with his inconsistent play in the regular season, at least it wouldn't make me confident. You guys have drafted well and I think Randall was a steal but he's no Cruz. Not yet any way.
Wait, Giant's shouldn't be confident with Eli? He doesn't carry the team? Please, PLEASE tell me I'm mis-reading your post and you mean Cruz. Please.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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Wait, Giant's shouldn't be confident with Eli? He doesn't carry the team? Please, PLEASE tell me I'm mis-reading your post and you mean Cruz. Please.
Eli stinks. Get over it scotty!
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:44 PM    (permalink
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****, I thought this **** started at midnight
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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Falcons pls make an awwsum move!
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