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Old 04-11-2014, 01:34 PM    (permalink
Ness
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Lloyd was just being a moron. If a ball is headed right at you you catch it. No excuses.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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I think the ball was so close to his head that his human "duck" instinct kind of kicked in before his brain could process that the ball had been thrown.

As for Smith, you can tell that's not Alex throwing the ball, because it's too far down the field.
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Old 04-11-2014, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Colored me shocked the Bengals signed DE Sam Montgomery. Such a Mike Brown signing.
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Old 04-11-2014, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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Colored me shocked the Bengals signed DE Sam Montgomery. Such a Mike Brown signing.
if he gets his head on straight it's a good signing.
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Old 04-11-2014, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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if he gets his head on straight it's a good signing.
If he can't get his head straight here then he will basically be done in the NFL.
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Browns matched the jags offer almost immediately. Good job matching as hard as possble to match lol

Mack wants out of cleveland but instead is handcuffed to them for 5 years
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by K Train View Post
Browns matched the jags offer almost immediately. Good job matching as hard as possble to match lol

Mack wants out of cleveland but instead is handcuffed to them for 5 years
the contract didn't have clauses that stated it could be voided after 2 or 3 years just in case Cleveland matched?
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by K Train View Post
Browns matched the jags offer almost immediately. Good job matching as hard as possble to match lol

Mack wants out of cleveland but instead is handcuffed to them for 5 years
Opt-out after two years. If he's still good and they're still churning through coaching staffs, he's gone after 2015.
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by K Train View Post
Browns matched the jags offer almost immediately. Good job matching as hard as possble to match lol

Mack wants out of cleveland but instead is handcuffed to them for 5 years
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Originally Posted by Bert Macklin View Post
the contract didn't have clauses that stated it could be voided after 2 or 3 years just in case Cleveland matched?
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Opt-out after two years. If he's still good and they're still churning through coaching staffs, he's gone after 2015.
The Browns let it get personal. I don't necessarily buy into the Ted Thompson philosophy of any center will do, but there isn't a center in the league worth that much money IMO. Now they are stuck overpaying a guy who doesn't want to be there and will most definitely opt out after year two. Unless the Browns are Super Bowl champs before he opts out this is about as dumb a move as I've seen.
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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god damnit
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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god damnit
This made me laugh
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Old 04-11-2014, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by K Train View Post
Browns matched the jags offer almost immediately. Good job matching as hard as possble to match lol

Mack wants out of cleveland but instead is handcuffed to them for 5 years
We'll hopefully Mack can fall on his sword and stomach making all that money for five years. Poor guy.
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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So Cleveland is going to pay a center 18 million for 2 years then he is going to opt out. I hope they end up losing one of their better players now because they are stupid to pay a center over 8 million a year.
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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Analyzing a contract with no context whatsoever is really pointless.

The Browns currently have 30M in cap room with Mack under contract. They will have 50M in cap room next year with Mack under contract and that's without whatever rolls over from this years cap room not used.

And they have no one to pay besides Gordon.

It is impossible for "over"paying Mack to impact their salary cap so much that they won't have enough money to make MULTIPLE huge signings, let alone lose their own FAs, like you suggest might happen.

The people knocking this contract are basically saying the Browns are stupid for choosing to have 60M in 2015 cap room and a gaping hole at C rather than having 52M in 2015 cap room and Alex Mack.
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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And they have no one to pay besides Gordon.
Joe Haden, Joe Thomas, Jordan Cameron, Phillip Taylor?
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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Joe Haden, Joe Thomas, Jordan Cameron, Phillip Taylor?
I forgot Haden and Thomas didn't have deals yet.

They will not lose any of those players because they signed Mack. Not one of them. AND they can sign outside FAs. They have upwards of 60M next year.

The only way they'll lose those guys is if those guys don't want to be Browns.

Signing Mack in no way inhibits them from locking those guys up.

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Old 04-11-2014, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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They will not lose any of those players because they signed Mack. Not one of them.
You never know. Also it is stupid to pay a player that much money when he does not even want to be there. Unless they start winning this year or next he is going to opt out. Plus you paying him like he is the best Center in the NFL by a far margin and that is not true.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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It isn't just about cap space and money. If they simply had a disagreement about his worth and Mack was getting to stay where he wanted and get paid too that would be one thing. Mack made it pretty clear he wanted out of Cleveland. So now he has to bide his time for two years until he can get out. Just seems to me that is not a recipe for getting your money's worth.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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i'm not comfortable with this much discussion about the browns. I mean what is the point
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Old 04-11-2014, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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Same old browns. Are they sure the three stooges arent running that organization?
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Old 04-11-2014, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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You never know. Also it is stupid to pay a player that much money when he does not even want to be there. Unless they start winning this year or next he is going to opt out. Plus you paying him like he is the best Center in the NFL by a far margin and that is not true.
You do know in this case. There is no possible math that would make this deal preclude them from doing whatever they want in FA next offseason.

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It isn't just about cap space and money. If they simply had a disagreement about his worth and Mack was getting to stay where he wanted and get paid too that would be one thing. Mack made it pretty clear he wanted out of Cleveland. So now he has to bide his time for two years until he can get out. Just seems to me that is not a recipe for getting your money's worth.
The point you both make about him wanting out is fair, but only if you have a reason to question whether his play will be affected by him not wanting to be there.

He still has a job to do, there are still incentives for him to play well, and the Browns assessed that risk for who I imagine to be a high-character player, and chose to keep him rather than add another position to their laundry list of needs.

They chose to motivate Mack (I'd imagine the money helps a bit) rather than use a pick on a rookie and start him or start a vastly inferior player, either in house or in the scrap-heap of FA.

It's another classic "what SHOULD they have done, then?" move.

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Old 04-11-2014, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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to be fair to mack, it seems like people have just been theorycrafting his intentions and the whole "he wants out" thing has been exaggerated; i mean, even if he has been unhappy behind closed doors, the fact is that it's behind closed doors and none of us can really know that for sure. only his agent has really insinuated anything, and basically everything he's done is nothing new. there has been nothing explicitly said by mack that would suggest that he is not committed to the team.

i mean, there was no reason for him to not sign the offer sheet with jacksonville to begin with, whether he badly wanted out or not. a super lucrative long-term deal with the option to opt out after a couple years? i doubt he's complaining.

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Old 04-12-2014, 01:39 AM    (permalink
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A few notes:

1.) Alex Mack is the highest-paid center in the NFL now, but the difference between him and the next group is far from staggering. Mackís average salary for the total duration of the contract is $8.4 million. Ryan Kalilís average salary is $8.2 million and Nick Mangoldís average salary is $7.7 million. Accounting for cap inflation, the Browns are actually committing a smaller percentage of the cap toward Mack than the Panthers or Jets committed to Kalil or Mangold at the time of their deals.

2.) Essentially, itís a short-term, two-year deal. If the Browns donít improve, Mack will opt out and control his own fate. Regardless, matching Jacksonvilleís offer doesnít affect Clevelandís ability to re-sign their homegrown talent. At all. The Browns have the most cap space in the NFL as it stands, so Year 1 of 2 isnít an issue. And the Browns are projected to have a massive amount of cap space in 2015, so Year 2 of 2 isnít an issue either. Considering possible cuts and restructurings, and assuming the cap rises to $140 million, the Browns could walk into 2015 with over $60 million to spend.

As far as in-house talent goes:

Thomas: Under contract through 2018. Negligible amount of guaranteed money left. Hypothetically, could be cut or traded and provide immediate, substantial relief.

Haden: Free agent in 2015. I hope the front office is working on an extension right now. But, if an extension isnít reached, he will be franchise-tagged. Which would probably be in the neighborhood of $12-13 million. The Browns can certainly afford that.

Cameron: Free agent in 2015. Even if Hadenís franchised, that still leaves the Browns with almost $50 million. Thatís more than enough to sign Cameron if interest is mutual.

Taylor: Free agent in 2015. See above.

Gordon: Free agent in 2016. By that time, Mackís two-year deal will have run its course.

3.) Professionalism. If Mack wants an opportunity to play with a contender in two years, heís going to have to prove heís worth it. He appears to be close friends with (at least) the left side of the offensive line. He said he enjoyed his visit with the new coaching staff. If he still dogs it, then heís sabotaging his own career.

Mackís deal just isnít as big of a deal as people are making it. Itís really that simple. Look at the bigger picture. Even if the Browns draft a quarterback with the fourth overall pick, and they develop into a competent quarterback, the Browns are paying pennies at an ultra-premium position until 2018. That cap flexibility allows them to invest heavier in some areas than other teams because they can afford to do it. Center has a compelling argument for being the second-most important position along the offensive line and I will feel more comfortable about developing a young quarterback under Mack. That needs to be the primary focus in Cleveland. Surrounding the next quarterback with a capable supporting cast and ending the revolving door at that position. Mack helps accomplish that goal. Thatís worth a few extra million.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jvig43 View Post
Same old browns. Are they sure the three stooges arent running that organization?
Any three stooges referance is always good but i actually expect them to win that division assuming they get the right QB on draft day. How's that for being zany.
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Old 04-13-2014, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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The Browns are paying a young pro-bowl center 8 million a year and have a **** ton of cap space and no quarterback on the roster making any high amount of money.

If we draft a QB he will be up for a new contract in 5 years - the length of Mack's contract.

The people ripping the contract saying its way too much for a center are not putting anything into perspective. We have a ton of cap space with or without Mack signing this deal. Without Mack we have a huge hole to fill in the middle of the line and get significantly worse because of it. Most of the contracts we have structured, including Dansby Whitner and Tate are front loaded two year contracts.

By the time those two contracts have paid the majority of their worth we will have signed/be needing to sign Gordon Cameron Haden Taylor and Sheard.

By the time Mack's 5 year contract runs up we will potentially be needing to pay a rookie QB his second contract.

You don't get a sticker for being 40 million under the cap opposed to 30 million.
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