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Old 08-06-2011, 10:19 PM    (permalink
Ness
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If Curtis Martin gets in before Cris Carter I will lose all faith in this entire process.

And yes I have said this before.
Oh I've already lost faith. Curtis Martin in before Chris Carter? That's just ridiculous.

No disrespect to Martin, he was actually one of my favorite all time players at his position, but Carter should have been in first and deserves to go in ahead of Martin.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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1) Jerry Rice
2) Randy Moss
3) Steve Largent
4) Terrell Owens
5) Marvin Harrison

You could make a case for Cris Carter, sure, but that's just in the last thirty years, and guys like Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald are coming.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure season-by-season is all that relevant when it comes to the HOF, judging by history, voters don't seem to think so nearly as much as comparing overall careers.

However, he was in the top 3 in the following years:

1995 (1,487 yards behind Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders)
1999 (1,464 yards behind Edgerrin James)
2001 (1,513 yards behind Priest Holmes)
2004 (1,697 yards 1st overall)

That might not seem like much, but keep in mind that Cris Carter was never in the top 3 in yards, often because for much of his career he wasn't even the best receiver on his own team. Guys like David Boston and Amani Toomer were, however, showing that year-by-year isn't really a great barometer.
Well first of all I hardly think we can blame Carter for not being the best receiver on his own team when he played with the second best WR of all time.

I'd argue that Carter was at a disadvantage in the yardage rankings because of his style as a possession receiver, which I suppose can be a small knock against him for not going down the field all that much. But I think there is definitely a lot of value in having a guy who moved the chains as much as he did, and pretty much caught everything thrown his way. Also an outstanding red zone guy.

Martin was a very good player don't get me wrong, I just think we need to be careful about overrating a player who averaged 4.0 YPC or less 7 out of his 11 years in the league.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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Oh I've already lost faith. Curtis Martin in before Chris Carter? That's just ridiculous.
So ridiculous it's probably going to happen.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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So ridiculous it's probably going to happen.
Well yes, which is why I've lost faith.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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Carter definitely made some jaw dropping catches. I'd put his hands in the top 3 of all time for sure.

Granted if your looking for an completely objective opinion on Cris Carter you shouldn't ask me, but he was not just solid for a long time. He was consistently a top 2-5 receiver year in and year out. We're not talking about Hines Ward here.
I'd even go as far to say that Carter probably had better hands than Rice, and Rice had some of the best hands ever.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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Let's not forget how many touchdowns Carter has. 130, 4th best behind Rice, Moss, and Owens.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:27 PM    (permalink
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And Martin is 4th overall in rushing yards. So.....

I just think the more you argue the fact, the more you realize how similar the two guys are. Carter was more of an underneath and endzone guy, which is quite similar to being something of an everydown, grinder, back as a runningback.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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And Martin is 4th overall in rushing yards. So.....

I just think the more you argue the fact, the more you realize how similar the two guys are. Carter was more of an underneath and endzone guy, which is quite similar to being something of an everydown, grinder, back as a runningback.
Except Carter has been snubbed the last few years. I don't think Martin gets in on his first try though. Perhaps his second. I loved Martin when he was playing, still wish he was sometimes, but I just think Carter should have been in already and the more time goes on, I think it's going to screw his chances over. Just like Art Monk.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:29 PM    (permalink
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Poor Deion, Shannon Sharpe already gave the "growing up poor and black in the South speech." He thought he was going to bring down the house, too.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Except Carter has been snubbed the last few years. I don't think Martin gets in on his first try though. Perhaps his second.
2012 is his second try.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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Did I just turn to the Hall of Fame speech for Deion Sanders or a local station broadcasting the Saturday night sermon?
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:46 PM    (permalink
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I think Andre Reed should get in before Carter or Martin tbh
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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That might not seem like much, but keep in mind that Cris Carter was never in the top 3 in yards, often because for much of his career he wasn't even the best receiver on his own team. Guys like David Boston and Amani Toomer were, however, showing that year-by-year isn't really a great barometer.
Amani Toomer was never better than Cris Carter.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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Amani Toomer was never better than Cris Carter.
He means the best on their team.
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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No, I meant guys who were top 3 in yards receiving. Obviously he's not better, I used him as an example to show that looking at year-to-year doesn't make as much sense as comparing total careers.

Everyone can have a fluke year or two.
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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1) Jerry Rice
2) Randy Moss
3) Steve Largent
4) Terrell Owens
5) Marvin Harrison

You could make a case for Cris Carter, sure, but that's just in the last thirty years, and guys like Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald are coming.
How are Steve Largent and Marvin Harrison better than Cris Carter? I know Steve Largent had crappy QBs through out most of his career but, imo he is not better than Cris Carter. Marvin Harrison should be in the top 5 mainly because he disappeared in the playoffs with the best QB throwing him the ball well 2nd best behind Tom Brady.

Edit: I just saw Randy Moss, I don't know how I missed him.

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Old 08-06-2011, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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I rly lost faith in the HoF system when Michael Irvin got in before Carter. Carter>>>Irvin
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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1) Willie Roaf- Tackle- 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-2005 Kansas City Chiefs

2) Dermontti Dawson- Center- 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

3) Chris Doleman- Defensive End/Linebacker- 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-1998 San Francisco 49'ers

4) Curtis Martin- Runningback- 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets

5) Cortez Kennedy- Defensive Tackle- 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

Still have to wait another year: Cris Carter, Will Shields, Jerome Bettis, Andre Reed, Tim Brown, Charles Haley, Bill Parcells, Bill Cowher
Swap Doleman for one of the WRs and I think that's going to be the Class of 2012. Roaf, Dawson, Martin and Kennedy all made the cut down to the Final 10 in 2011 which bodes well for their chances next year. With no obvious 1st ballot guys (2010 had Rice and Emmitt; 2011 had Deion and Faulk) next year is a golden opportunity to start clearing up the WR backlog.
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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How are Steve Largent and Marvin Harrison better than Cris Carter? I know Steve Largent had crappy QBs through out most of his career but, imo he is not better than Cris Carter. Marvin Harrison should be in the top 5 mainly because he disappeared in the playoffs with the best QB throwing him the ball.

Edit: I just saw Randy Moss, I don't know I missed him.
Largent retired as the all-time leader in receptions, rec yardage and TD catches. He broke Hutson's TD record which had stood for nearly half a century. That's got to carry some weight.
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
2012 is his second try.
Are you sure? He last played in 2007.
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Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by raiderz4life View Post
I rly lost faith in the HoF system when Michael Irvin got in before Carter. Carter>>>Irvin
Irvin before Carter LMAO.
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Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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Yes. He was eligible this year.
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Complex View Post
Marvin Harrison should be in the top 5 mainly because he disappeared in the playoffs with the best QB throwing him the ball well 2nd best behind Tom Brady.
And who could forget Cris Carter's memorable playoff performances like..uh....

You can switch Carter and Harrison and I would accept that. They are pretty damn similar in a lot of respects. Harrison had about 1,000 more yards and a slightly higher ypc avg, Carter had 12 more touchdowns.
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ness View Post
Are you sure? He last played in 2007.
Martin never played in 07, he didn't even play in 06.
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