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Old 08-09-2011, 02:02 AM    (permalink
boknows34
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Kenny Easley
5 Pro Bowls
4 1st team All-Pros
1 2nd team All Pro
1984 Defensive Player of the Year
1980s All Decade team (First Team)
Career cut short through illness after 7 seasons. (Sterling Sharpe of safeties)
Only Defensive player on 1st team 1980s All Decade team not in the HOF
Hasn't got a sniff of Canton

Darren Woodson
5 Pro Bowls
3 1st team All-Pros
Starter on 3 Super Bowl winning teams
Hasn't got a sniff of Canton

Steve Atwater
8 Pro Bowls
2 1st team All-Pros
1 2nd team All Pro
Starter on 2 Super Bowl winning teams
1990s All Decade team (First Team)
Hasn't got a sniff of Canton

LeRoy Butler
4 Pro Bowls
4 1st team All-Pros
Starter on 1 Super Bowl winning team
1990s All Decade team (First Team)
Hasn't got a sniff of Canton


* Retired but not yet eligible
John Lynch
9 Pro Bowls
2 1st team All-Pros
2 2nd team All Pros
Starter on 1 Super Bowl winning team
Eligible in 2013

Rodney Harrison
2 Pro Bowls
2 1st team All-Pros
1 2nd team All Pro
Starter on 2 Super Bowl winning teams
30 sacks/30 interceptions
Eligible in 2014


* Still Active
Brian Dawkins
8 Pro Bowls
4 1st team All-Pros
1 2nd team All Pro
2000s All Decade team (First Team)

Darren Sharper
5 Pro Bowls
2 1st team All-Pros
4 2nd team All Pros
2000s All Decade team (Second Team)
63 Interceptions (6th all-time)
1,412 interception ret yds (3rd all-time)
11 interception ret TDS (2nd all-time)

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Old 08-09-2011, 02:06 AM    (permalink
Ness
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Originally Posted by Ravens1991 View Post
How bout Hines Ward???? I have been in a debate w/ my coach for weeks about it. I say no because he isnt a top 5 WR in his era. But my coach brings up good points about having the same amount of catches as Moss and his rings. I still dont think he deserves it though but it maybe my bias.
If he played a few more seasons, maybe. We'll have to see. Unfortunately I can't think of one year where Ward was arguably the best receiver in the NFL. 2002 would be the closest, and even at that point there were others guys like Owens, Harrison, Holt, and Moss that personally I would have put ahead of Ward. The thing that Ward has going for him seems to be that he's played for a long time and has been very durable throughout this career.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:12 AM    (permalink
Ness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boknows34 View Post
Kenny Easley
5 Pro Bowls
4 1st team All-Pros
1 2nd team All Pro
1984 Defensive Player of the Year
1980s All Decade team (First Team)
Career cut short through illness after 7 seasons. (Sterling Sharpe of safeties)
Only Defensive player on 1st team 1980s All Decade team not in the HOF
Hasn't got a sniff of Canton

Darren Woodson
5 Pro Bowls
3 1st team All-Pros
Starter on 3 Super Bowl winning teams
Hasn't got a sniff of Canton

Steve Atwater
8 Pro Bowls
2 1st team All-Pros
1 2nd team All Pro
Starter on 2 Super Bowl winning teams
1990s All Decade team (First Team)
Hasn't got a sniff of Canton

LeRoy Butler
4 Pro Bowls
4 1st team All-Pros
Starter on 1 Super Bowl winning team
1990s All Decade team (First Team)
Hasn't got a sniff of Canton


* Retired but not yet eligible
John Lynch
9 Pro Bowls
2 1st team All-Pros
2 2nd team All Pros
Starter on 1 Super Bowl winning team
Eligible in 2013

Rodney Harrison
2 Pro Bowls
2 1st team All-Pros
1 2nd team All Pro
Starter on 2 Super Bowl winning teams
30 sacks/30 interceptions
Eligible in 2014


* Still Active
Brian Dawkins
8 Pro Bowls
4 1st team All-Pros
1 2nd team All Pro
2000s All Decade team (First Team)

Darren Sharper
5 Pro Bowls
2 1st team All-Pros
4 2nd team All Pros
2000s All Decade team (Second Team)
63 Interceptions (6th all-time)
1,412 interception ret yds (3rd all-time)
11 interception ret TDS (2nd all-time)
LeRoy Butler was so annoying in the 90's when the 49ers played the Packers.

Too bad Kenny Easley didn't play a few more seasons. Probably would have been in Canton by now if he didn't get sick.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:21 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ness View Post
If he played a few more seasons, maybe. We'll have to see. Unfortunately I can't think of one year where Ward was arguably the best receiver in the NFL. 2002 would be the closest, and even at that point there were others guys like Owens, Harrison, Holt, and Moss that personally I would have put ahead of Ward. The thing that Ward has going for him seems to be that he's played for a long time and has been very durable throughout this career.
His postseason resume might be enough to get him over the line in the eyes of some voters.

17 games
88 catches
1,181 yds
10 TDs
Super Bowl MVP
2 Super Bowl rings

I can see Ward making it but only after a long wait and an Art Monk style campaign.
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:05 AM    (permalink
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Safeties don't get into Canton.
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:46 AM    (permalink
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Safeties don't get into Canton.
This is true, and unfortunate. There are a couple that deserve to be in. Atwater for sure.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:54 AM    (permalink
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Steve Atwater was an absolute terror. For a long time.

I'll never forget the lick he came up and delivered on Christian Okoye. I wonder if the "Nigerian Nightmare" still checks under his bed at night for Atwater....
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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I personally hate the HOF for football. Its too easy to get in, and its bias like crazy.
Very few at certain positions when the resume qualifies them for induction. Look at that list of safeties. Atwater was arguably the best safety of the '90's and not even a sniff at consideration.
You have past studs get passed over for other players of more popular teams. Randy Gradishar I heard was regarded as one of the best LB's of his era, but he constantly got passed over.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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eaking of safeties its gonna be interesting to see who gets left out out of this era. Troy P, Ed Ree, Dawkins, Darren Sharper, Rodney Harrison. Someones gonna get left out
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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eaking of safeties its gonna be interesting to see who gets left out out of this era. Troy P, Ed Ree, Dawkins, Darren Sharper, Rodney Harrison. Someones gonna get left out
Let it be Harrison
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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eaking of safeties its gonna be interesting to see who gets left out out of this era. Troy P, Ed Ree, Dawkins, Darren Sharper, Rodney Harrison. Someones gonna get left out
More like all of them. If Atwater isn't even getting consideration, how are these other players going to get in? Guys like Joey Browner aren't even getting a nod.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 08-10-2011, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Polamalu and Ed Reed are near locks, which is unheard of for a safety.

I think what's going to happen is the Hall is going to hit a dry patch in the next decade for finding Canton worthy candidates; there aren't many WRs, RBs, QBs, LBs and DEs left who are really HOF worthy IMO.

That's when we could see a renaissance by the HOF committee and a 'rediscovery' of the importance of the safety position in the NFL.

Safeties used to be stereotyped as too slow to play corner, too small to play LB. We all understand now that an elite safety can be a game changer and oftentimes the most important player on D.

Some of these candidates may be in their 50s and 60s before it happens, but too many modern fans respect the safety position to have them ignored forever.

Almost all the safeties listed by Ness if you really think about it are HOF worthy in their own right.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Jack Tatum isn't the Hall of Fame. That's some ******** imo.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Jack Tatum isn't the Hall of Fame. That's some ******** imo.
Tatum went to 3 Pro Bowls and was only once a 2nd team All-Pro. That's nowhere near enough for Canton and he's clearly well down the pecking order for a position that doesn't get much consideration anyway.

Ed Reed was voted in the NFLN's Top 100 of All-Time at #88. I'd say his chances are excellent.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/baltimore-...-No-88-Ed-Reed

Troy P is also a virtual lock. After that its going to be a tossup between Lynch, Dawkins, Sharper. Atwater's best chance is as a Senior nominee.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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Maybe its just me being a homer and because JT is probably my favorite Raider of all time but the man deserves to be in.
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Maybe its just me being a homer and because JT is probably my favorite Raider of all time but the man deserves to be in.
If people didn't see Jack Tatum play, they don't understand his greatness.
It's not a stretch to say that Tatum was the most feared hitter in the league during the '70s, a true collision artist.

The man is dead right now because of the reckless abandon with which he played the game and the endless successive concussions he suffered.

Jack Tatum paralyzed a player in a preseason NFL game, Darryl Stingley.

He's the player Ronnie Lott patterned much of his own game, and IMO the only reason he's not in the HOF is strictly political.
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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If people didn't see Jack Tatum play, they don't understand his greatness.
It's not a stretch to say that Tatum was the most feared hitter in the league during the '70s, a true collision artist.

The man is dead right now because of the reckless abandon with which he played the game and the endless successive concussions he suffered.

Jack Tatum paralyzed a player in a preseason NFL game, Darryl Stingley.

He's the player Ronnie Lott patterned much of his own game, and IMO the only reason he's not in the HOF is strictly political.
"I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault."
Jack Tatum

One of my fave quotes lol Gotta love Tatum. Embodied the Oaklan Raiders.
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jth1331 View Post
I personally hate the HOF for football. Its too easy to get in, and its bias like crazy.
Very few at certain positions when the resume qualifies them for induction. Look at that list of safeties. Atwater was arguably the best safety of the '90's and not even a sniff at consideration.
Didn't they just pass a rule that there needs to be at least 4 players inducted every year, or something like that? Which basically means they're going to force even more unwarranted players into the Hall of Fame.


As far as safeties go... I think Atwater has the biggest gripe. He was the premier safety of the 90s. One of my favorite defensive players of the 90s. Someone mentioned the hit on Okoye, but how about the hit in the Super Bowl against the Packers where he knocked out the Packer's WR (either Freeman or Brooks) and his own teammate... and himself. The guy was a tank.

Kenny Easley was the second best safety of the 80s to Ronnie Lott (he was right there with Lott, and if he played somewhere other than Seattle and for a few more years, people might be calling him better than Lott). Easley is the only safety to win the DPOY award for the entire decade of the 80s and 90s. Ed Reed was the next safety to win the award (2004), a full 20 years later.

After that I would put in Jack Tatum. Because he nearly killed a player, wrote books about his violence and never apologized for it... he's not getting in. But there have been very few players that had the type of effect on WRs going into the middle of the field as Jack Tatum. Guys like Ronnie Lott and Steve Atwater patterned their game after his attitude and toughness. He's a historically prevalent player. Everyone knows the name Jack Tatum. Since his death didn't garner any buzz for Canton, then nothing probably will. He was a great player and dominating force in the middle of the field.



But you also have Deron Cherry, wasn't mentioned above, who is a guy I would say is, arguably, the third or fourth most deserving safety to not be in the Hall of Fame. In the prime of his career, Cherry was either the best safety in the game or in the top 3. Every single year. He was named AFC DPOY in 1986.


Deron Cherry

6x Pro Bowl (1983-1988)
3x 1st Team All-Pro
2x 2nd Team All-Pro
7x All-AFC team
1986 AFC Defensive Player of the Year
50 Career INTs
NFL 1980s All-Decade Team (2nd Team)


I'm not a fan of Darren Woodson. Its kind of what happens when you're a good player for America's team when America's team won 3 Super Bowls. To me Carnell Lake and Merton Hanks were better players and neither of them are Hall of Fame caliber players.
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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I'm almost curious how the Hall of Fame voting goes when it gets down to the final twenty or so. It just seems to me that there is a clear bias for offensive players.

"Oh Irvin had a monster career as a wide receiver, sorry Steve Atwater too bad you didn't play receiver. Alright what other offensive players are there on this ballot...hmm hmm hmm do do dee do..."
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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If Dawkins doesn't make it in, something is seriously wrong with the HOF. Also, I too believe there will be a drought at some point at other positions, and the committee will realize the backlog they have at safety. That list is ridiculous (with the exception of Woodson).
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Old 08-16-2011, 12:20 AM    (permalink
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Corey Dillon is eligible right? I think he should get in with in the next few years. He gave everything he had for Cincinnati (and basically got nothing in return) and earned a Super Bowl ring with New England following his most productive season. He only went to four Pro Bowls and I don't think he was ever listed as an All-Pro (playing for the Bengals I think had something to do with his lack of attention), but regardless he had a lot of big seasons and I believe deserves a spot there.
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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corey dillon deserves to go to the hall for putting up with the bengals and getting a ring, in spite of the fact that he wasn't one of the best running backs in the nfl for more than a season or so of his entire career?

meh, **** it. it's not like making it in actually has anything to do with having been one of the best players ever anymore (see: irvin, michael). might as well just induct everyone who played for the patriots from 2000-2004.
I don't think it's an absurd suggestion to think that Corey Dillon could make the hall of fame. Personally I don't think he deserves it, but he is relatively high on the all time rushing list, retired at 32 still relatively effective, and frankly played on a team that had nothing for most of his career. In his one season with a good supporting cast around him he was one of the best backs in the NFL. His career stats should be around good enough to make it, and for all we know if he was on an effective team he could have been one of the 10 best backs ever.

Nobody was suggesting that Troy Brown or Ted Johnson should make the hall of fame, but rather a 10,000+ yd. back with a ring that he was a huge part of getting should have a good shot at eventually making the hall. Just a forewarning though you may see a couple of ex-patriots making the hall in the next few years :p.
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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His postseason resume might be enough to get him over the line in the eyes of some voters.

17 games
88 catches
1,181 yds
10 TDs
Super Bowl MVP
2 Super Bowl rings

I can see Ward making it but only after a long wait and an Art Monk style campaign.
Ward's a guy I've been thinking long and hard about for the last year or so. If you'd have asked me three or for years ago, I would have said "no" resoundingly.

Right now, though, he's solidly in the top 5 of all major postseason receiving categories. He's had many, many big games for the Steelers in crunchtime. Superbowl MVP. After awhile, everything adds up and becomes too much to ignore. I'd much rather see a guy like Ward voted in as opposed to a regular season compiler who never did crap in the playoffs like Bettis.
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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there is nothing that sets corey dillon apart from running backs like fred taylor, warrick dunn, tiki barber, eddie george, thomas jones or shaun alexander. none of whom should ever even sniff the hall of fame.
I think that is a pretty big generalization. Next to Tiki Barber, who if he finished his career and wasn't such a massive tool probably would have made it, Dillon had the best career out of the bunch. George was forced the rock, Dunn had 3 good seasons and like 10 average ones, and Shawn Alexander wasn't dominant long enough. Fred Taylor had zero big moments over his career which hurts his candidacy. Dillon does have a SB ring (which does play a minor factor), and for a while held the single game record for rushing yards. I think people forget just how physical a runner Dillon was. He ran hard like Peterson without quite as much breakaway speed. Had he played on some better teams a lot of his 1200yd 7td seasons would be 1400yd 10td type seasons. He was relatively consistent for an 8 year stretch before declining.

Cincinnati is just a terrible organization to play for. For most of his career they had atrocious QB, and teams could stack the box. Once they fell behind they had to abandon the running game. I don't think he'll make it, but if he was put in a somewhat functional organization I think he'd definitely get a bust in Canton.
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Old 08-16-2011, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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corey dillon deserves to go to the hall for putting up with the bengals and getting a ring, in spite of the fact that he wasn't one of the best running backs in the nfl for more than a season or so of his entire career?

meh, **** it. it's not like making it in actually has anything to do with having been one of the best players ever anymore (see: irvin, michael). might as well just induct everyone who played for the patriots from 2000-2004.
You could say the same thing about Curtis Martin...who actually didn't get a ring. How many years was he considered the absolute best at his position? Maybe two years out of his entire career? Dillon also has 89 touchdowns in ten years...that's pretty good with most of them coming with Cincinnati.
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