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Old 04-23-2012, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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I don't think "some" was meant to infer a positive.
Ed Reed.... Has "Some" stiffness in his backpedal. So did Brian Dawkins, Darrent Woodson, Rod Woodson.... Etc...When your biggest weakness is that you have "some" stiffness and not "a fair amount" "too much" "a lot of" etc.. I would take it as not being a big negative.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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If your looking to the future then lets take Tannenhill with the #14 pick......

You have to take it one year at a time at most positions, guys have break out years where things just click. What happens if you draft a OLB to groom and Spencer blows up and breaks the sack record? Just waste the draft pick? Refurse to resign Spencer (Who broke a sack record).

Planning ahead for a QB is different than planning ahead for an OLB. A QB can benefit from a year or two learning the offense behind an AGING guy you don't really plan for the future when your player is under 30 in most cases.
Dude... what are you talking about? We need to draft an OLB to cover our bases. Odds are they aren't coming back, and even if Spencer blows up you can't have enough pass rushers. DeMarcus Ware is also turning 30, he isn't going to be around forever and getting someone to give him a breather would definitely be a good thing.

It's not a hard concept lol. OLB needs to be addressed in this draft. I don't care if it's the 4th round, but you have to get somebody.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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That Barron + DT of your choice (with a Round 3/4 value) is better than Brockers and Allen/Bethel? Sure. When you want the date of payment and how much?
I'll take Derek Wolfe/Jaye Howard and Barron over Brockers and Allen/Bethel
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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Ed Reed.... Has "Some" stiffness in his backpedal. So did Brian Dawkins, Darrent Woodson, Rod Woodson.... Etc...When your biggest weakness is that you have "some" stiffness and not "a fair amount" "too much" "a lot of" etc.. I would take it as not being a big negative.
Every safety has something wrong with their coverage... it's why they aren't playing corner. Even if it's just straight line speed.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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I feel like Barron brings the element of improving players around him, which is hard to say about a lot of prospects.

Many times last year, the secondary was out of position. As many of us remember, being "in position" was the difference in Roy L. Williams career. His best years came when Woodson was able to direct him.

I feel like Barron can improve what Sensabaugh brings to the team and ensure the back end of the D is are organized as Sean Lee keeps the front.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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Ed Reed.... Has "Some" stiffness in his backpedal. So did Brian Dawkins, Darrent Woodson, Rod Woodson.... Etc...When your biggest weakness is that you have "some" stiffness and not "a fair amount" "too much" "a lot of" etc.. I would take it as not being a big negative.
That's because "some" is not a very definitive description. I know you're not saying Barron is in the same class as Ed Reed, Brian Dawkins, Darren Woodson and Rod Woodson. Are you?
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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I'll take Derek Wolfe/Jaye Howard and Barron over Brockers and Allen/Bethel
OK, but you'd have to tell me how you would judge Jay Ratliff to Haloti Ngata first.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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I feel like Barron brings the element of improving players around him, which is hard to say about a lot of prospects.

Many times last year, the secondary was out of position. As many of us remember, being "in position" was the difference in Roy L. Williams career. His best years came when Woodson was able to direct him.

I feel like Barron can improve what Sensabaugh brings to the team and ensure the back end of the D is are organized as Sean Lee keeps the front.
I think that's a good plus for Barron.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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Dude... what are you talking about? We need to draft an OLB to cover our bases. Odds are they aren't coming back, and even if Spencer blows up you can't have enough pass rushers. DeMarcus Ware is also turning 30, he isn't going to be around forever and getting someone to give him a breather would definitely be a good thing.

It's not a hard concept lol. OLB needs to be addressed in this draft. I don't care if it's the 4th round, but you have to get somebody.
It's not a hard concept you're right there..... Spencer can be Franchise or Transitional tagged.... You honestly want to draft a guy in the 4th that won't play for multiple years as an "heir apparent to D-Ware? I'll pass. I'll wait until we have a need, or D-Ware, starts looking like he needs a breather and then I'll draft one in the first round that can make an immeadiate impact.

If I remember right James Harrison.... One of the best 3-4 OLB's wasn't drafted..... So tell me I need to draft one in the 4th round to groom when we already have Butler (Who will be a restricted FA... and Spencer, who can easily be tagged again) Thanks but no thanks.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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That's because "some" is not a very definitive description. I know you're not saying Barron is in the same class as Ed Reed, Brian Dawkins, Darren Woodson and Rod Woodson. Are you?
You're correct, I am not. I am simply stating that you are getting very caught up on the word "SOME" where that could easily be seen as a nonfactor
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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You're correct, I am not. I am simply stating that you are getting very caught up on the word "SOME" where that could easily be seen as a nonfactor
Haha. I thought you were the one getting caught up on the word "some", as to make it out like what Broddaus was saying only happens some of the time and that isn't a good description of Barron generally speaking. *shrugs*
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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It's not a hard concept you're right there..... Spencer can be Franchise or Transitional tagged.... You honestly want to draft a guy in the 4th that won't play for multiple years as an "heir apparent to D-Ware? I'll pass. I'll wait until we have a need, or D-Ware, starts looking like he needs a breather and then I'll draft one in the first round that can make an immeadiate impact.

If I remember right James Harrison.... One of the best 3-4 OLB's wasn't drafted..... So tell me I need to draft one in the 4th round to groom when we already have Butler (Who will be a restricted FA... and Spencer, who can easily be tagged again) Thanks but no thanks.
Both of you brought up fair points. If we're gonna groom someone, then a late round pick will do (CDCB's point). At the same time, we're not in dire need now and can wait later to fill OLB once it became an immediate need (GC's point). I think we can do both. Take a chance on a late round pick (Frank Alexander is my sleeper!) AND draft a stud prospect in Round 1 in the future...they come along every year.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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I feel like a post ***** today... but can you fault me? It's DRAFT WEEK baby!!!! :D
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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That Barron + DT of your choice (with a Round 3/4 value) is better than Brockers and Allen/Bethel? Sure. When you want the date of payment and how much?
Barron and Derek Wolfe vs. Brockers and Allen/Bethel? If you agree then it's a deal.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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Barron and Derek Wolfe vs. Brockers and Allen/Bethel? If you agree then it's a deal.
Sorry D, you lose!
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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Both of you brought up fair points. If we're gonna groom someone, then a late round pick will do (CDCB's point). At the same time, we're not in dire need now and can wait later to fill OLB once it became an immediate need (GC's point). I think we can do both. Take a chance on a late round pick (Frank Alexander is my sleeper!) AND draft a stud prospect in Round 1 in the future...they come along every year.
I would prefer to take a pass rusher like Irvin in round 2. It covers our bases at OLB and you can't have enough pass rushers. If we don't address it in the draft and we go into the season with Spencer and Butler on one year deals then we are making a big mistake. We will either have to overpay to keep one or have to draft one high next year. Butler isn't even a starter anyway and never should be, so we aren't going to keep him. You don't resign back-ups because he'll get a better deal elsewhere.

Even if Albright becomes the starter at SOLB, we would still have no depth, and again that isn't stopping me from getting insurance.

That is what the good team do. That is why we had to franchise Spencer this year and waste 9 million on the cap. I like Spencer, but we should have been better prepared. That doesn't happen to Pittsburgh or New England.

I don't understand how this is even an argument... getting at least a decent OLB in this draft is paramount.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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For the people clamoring for Baron:


Were you on the bandwagon to pick him a few months ago? Because if so that carries more merit with me, but I've never seen a guy seen as a solid early mid 2nd round pick shoot up to top 15 possibility without tearing up the combine. I want to address safety more then any position we have discussed but I don't want a mediocre player.


As I said in the draft forum, I was much higher on Louis Delmas. Don't see much "special" with Barron.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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Barron and Derek Wolfe vs. Brockers and Allen/Bethel? If you agree then it's a deal.
I'd take that bet, but I think to be fair we'd have to see where Wolfe, Allen and Bethel get selected first. If Wolfe or Allen is a 2nd rounder and the other isn't then we'd have to rework it. Also, we would have to agree that it can't be based off stats... but rather the player's reputation in the league.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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For all of you Brockers fans out there, I know D and Finisher are big fans. Can you give us your explanation on why you feel he's a good fit for us and where is his upside? I personally see him as a run stuffer with not much of a motor.
Let me start off saying this, when it comes to drafting players I'm someone who puts way more stock into what a player will become 3-4 years down the line rather than looking at how he can help us immediately. I tend to place a greater emphasis on potential and projecting what I think a player will become. When I look at Brockers, I see a player with rare physical tools who if developed properly will become a dominant player along the interior. You have to realize that this was a 250lb OLB just a couple seasons ago, the pace at which he's been able to transition into what he is today is astounding. He physically dominated in a major BCS conference this year relying mostly on natural ability and his "feel" for the game. He was figuring it out as he went, and when you watch that kind of growth take place over the course of a 14 week season it leaves you asking "just how good can this kid be?"

When comparing him to the other DL in this class, Brockers easily plays the biggest and strongest. To magnify what that means, having a RS Sophmore being dubbed the most powerful lineman in his draft class is not a common occurance. Had Brockers gone back to LSU for another year (or 2) and continued to build off his growth from this past season, he doesn't make it out of the top 5. This is a kid that WANTS to be great, and physically there is nothing holding him back from achieving that. Couple that with a great football IQ that allows him to apply what he learns in the classroom to the field very quickly, and the sky is the limit.

Then there's the fact that we have a major need along our DL. When Kenyon Coleman is one of your starting 5-Techs and Sean Lissemore is the only guy in the unit that may have some untapped potential, you know it's time to invest in a blue chipper. While Brockers is a ways away from reaching his potential, he'll still be the most physically dominant presence on the DL the moment he walks in the door. He'll give us that player we currently lack up front that can command double teams and make life easier for Lee, Carter, Ware and Spencer. Let him get his hands on people and do the dirty work as a rookie while our coaches help tap into his potential as a pass rusher. Once he learns to consistently hone that ferocious bull rush he flashed this year, look out. I see no reason why he can't be a plus pocket collapser year 1 and be a constant thorn in QBs side's by getting his massive paws up in passing lanes.

I just view Brockers as the kind of player you can build a front 7 around. Of course no prospect is fool proof, but if Brockers develops as expected he'll be an absolute force in our trenches for years. Every good house has a solid foundation, this is an opportunity to lay a very, very good defensive one.

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Old 04-23-2012, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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For the people clamoring for Baron:


Were you on the bandwagon to pick him a few months ago? Because if so that carries more merit with me, but I've never seen a guy seen as a solid early mid 2nd round pick shoot up to top 15 possibility without tearing up the combine. I want to address safety more then any position we have discussed but I don't want a mediocre player.


As I said in the draft forum, I was much higher on Louis Delmas. Don't see much "special" with Barron.
Amen brother. I know for a fact that they weren't this high on Barron before. They are just riding the wave and sorry, I ain't hopping on! If holding your ground is "out of the box", then so be it!

That's the same reason why I'm not riding Cox's jock strap. Kuechly, Coples, Hightower, Brockers were always within this range. Those are the guys I mentioned earlier on being the ones I liked.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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I'm beginning to think the stuff about couples is smoke. I have a real hard time believing that the best pass rusher in this draft will last until the 20's.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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Agree in terms of sack #, but would say we need DE's that collapse the pocket. We have guys that either hold point or get shoved back.

I think that should be a focus when looking at 3-4 ends.
pushing the pocket it was brockers should be able to help with. go watch thee film he's not a placeholder like igor olshansky, vs the run i seen him split double teams, getting off blocks and making tackles. his pass rush would be better if played with better leverage to get underneath guards, he tries to finesse his way too much instead using his raw power to push the pocket. go watch the sec championship and the national championship, he can penetrate and make in vs the run in the backfield. he's not a placeholder.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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I'm beginning to think the stuff about couples is smoke. I have a real hard time believing that the best pass rusher in this draft will last until the 20's.
imo quinton is not the best pure pass rusher in the draft. when i watched his film you can see clearly he's not the type of player that can bend the edge to beat tackles like mario williams or julius peppers.

most have him projected as a base end (run stopping)in the 4-3 or end in 3-4, he reminds of jammal anderson from arkansas a few years back. he can probably get anywhere from 5-8 sacks but probably not 10+ sack guy. but i think he would be a beast as 3-4 end, 5-8 sacks from that position is
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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I'm beginning to think the stuff about couples is smoke. I have a real hard time believing that the best pass rusher in this draft will last until the 20's.
Where have you been reading that?
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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I'm intrigued big time by Brockers. I think he's much more of a difference maker then just a run plugger, and the upside trumps most other options we could take there. It's a good time to get a difference maker at 5 tech anyway IMO because while Ratliff is still effective if he's still the only guy worth a damn on the line and has to fight through doubles the next 2 years it's going to make his decline seem even faster.


A stud down there extends his career and makes him more effective.
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