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Old 04-30-2012, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by leroyisgod View Post
One analyst says he's similar to that of Wes Welker. If he's 80% of Wes Welker, I'll take that all day long.
Welker can shred grass man... I don't think Coale has that type of suddeness out of his breaks to gain that kind of separation. Being taller doesn't really help in that category either. I do like his hands and his physicality, but I'm not ready to call him an explosive player. Serviceable and reliable is more along the line of terms that I could relate to him.

I still like Dwayne Harris' shiftiness and YAC ability over Coales. Seems better fit for the slot. Though Coales has better ability to play outside than Harris.
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Outside of Claiborne, do you guys have a favorite pick of ours?
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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Outside of Claiborne, do you guys have a favorite pick of ours?
Personally, I don't. Just in love with the positions we addressed and when. I keep hearing great things about Coale from all over, so I'm confident we'll get some production and maybe a find from him. We do well scouting WR's.


Excited about Crawford, just need to wait a year for him.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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I was hoping for Ronnell in the 4th. The big question is, did we gain any ground on the east? The Iggles look STACKED after this draft. The Giants added some nice skill position players although their Oline doesnt seem improved. And ofcourse the skins getting RG3 will be a load for the next 10 years or so. We got better but so did everybody else
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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I was hoping for Ronnell in the 4th. The big question is, did we gain any ground on the east? The Iggles look STACKED after this draft. The Giants added some nice skill position players although their Oline doesnt seem improved. And ofcourse the skins getting RG3 will be a load for the next 10 years or so. We got better but so did everybody else
I actually like wilber over lewis. the knock on lewis is he's not a good space player. from the clips i've seen he can definitely move in space. i also had the combine recorded on my dvr and looked at some of these guys workouts. wilber moves very well, real smooth, which is good b/c all the cowboys laud about is how spencer is in coverage and doesn't have the rush oppurtunities that ware has. if he can get stronger against the run he might be able to take spencer's spot
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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Welker can shred grass man... I don't think Coale has that type of suddeness out of his breaks to gain that kind of separation. Being taller doesn't really help in that category either. I do like his hands and his physicality, but I'm not ready to call him an explosive player. Serviceable and reliable is more along the line of terms that I could relate to him.

I still like Dwayne Harris' shiftiness and YAC ability over Coales. Seems better fit for the slot. Though Coales has better ability to play outside than Harris.
coale reminds me a crayton. he's deceptively fast and he understand how to get open to go along with great hands.
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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coale reminds me a crayton. he's deceptively fast and he understand how to get open to go along with great hands.
I hope he's better than Crayton. We'll find out. :)
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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I actually like wilber over lewis. the knock on lewis is he's not a good space player. from the clips i've seen he can definitely move in space. i also had the combine recorded on my dvr and looked at some of these guys workouts. wilber moves very well, real smooth, which is good b/c all the cowboys laud about is how spencer is in coverage and doesn't have the rush oppurtunities that ware has. if he can get stronger against the run he might be able to take spencer's spot
I always thought Lewis was more of a 4-3 LB, so I didn't understand us bringing him in for a workout. I'm kinda with pocketaces, in that I think Lewis could be a better NFL player, but I'm with you, I think Wilber fits our scheme much better. Checking in at 6'1 really makes Lewis diminutive compared to the 6'4 Wilber. I think that's part of the reason why the Cowboys had Wilber ranked higher. Wilber seems pretty well rounded as far as being able to cover, stop the the run and sack... sort of a jack of all trades, master of none deal. Hopefully, he'll realize his potential under Ryan.
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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I was hoping for Ronnell in the 4th. The big question is, did we gain any ground on the east? The Iggles look STACKED after this draft. The Giants added some nice skill position players although their Oline doesnt seem improved. And ofcourse the skins getting RG3 will be a load for the next 10 years or so. We got better but so did everybody else
In the 4th I was mostly pissed that Blake and Ta'amu were scooped up right in front of us.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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Was just looking at one of our UDFAs.... Holy crap! Can I get a HELL YEAH?!!!

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Old 04-30-2012, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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http://espn.go.com/espnradio/dallas/play?id=7874862

Galloway & Company: Tom Ciskowski
Cowboys director of scouting Tom Ciskowski discusses the decision to trade down for Morris Claiborne, what role Jason Garrett has in player evaluation and much more Good interview
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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http://espn.go.com/espnradio/dallas/play?id=7874862

Galloway & Company: Tom Ciskowski
Cowboys director of scouting Tom Ciskowski discusses the decision to trade down for Morris Claiborne, what role Jason Garrett has in player evaluation and much more Good interview
Listened to that earlier today. Liked that a lot! Very informative.

Several teams called to congratulate us and said they were thinking of taking Coale in Round 4. Cool.

Talked about Matt Johnson over Antonio Allen too.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:23 AM    (permalink
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coale reminds me a crayton. he's deceptively fast and he understand how to get open to go along with great hands.
Still not forgiven for dropping that pass versus the GMen in 2008. Would have broken open that game.
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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I've heard and read a ton of negative here in DFW about the Cowboys and their drafting. Specifically, Norm has spent a ton of time railing on the Cowboys for their drafts after the 4th round.

Here's my look at 2009-2005 drafts of NFC East from the 4th round on. Source: pro football reference

Giants:

Andre Brown
Rhett Bomar
DeAndre Wright
Stoney Woodson

Verdict: Nothing

Bryan Kehl
Jonathan Goff
Andre Woodson
Robert Henderson


Verdict: 2 JAG’s

Zak DeOssie
LB
Kevin Boss
TE
Adam Koets
T
Michael Johnson
DB
Ahmad Bradshaw
RB


Verdict: 2 very nice picks

Barry Cofield
DT
Guy Whimper
DE
Charlie Peprah
DB
Gerrick McPhearson
DB


Verdict: 1 Nice pick

Brandon Jacobs
Eric Moore


Verdict: 1 Nice pick

5 Years: 4 Nice picks and 2 JAG’s

Eagles

Cornelius Ingram
Victor Harris
Fenuki Tupou
Brandon Gibson
Paul Fanaika
Moise Fokou


Verdict: 2 JAG’s

Mike McGlynn
Quintin Demps
Jack Ikegwuonu
Mike Gibson
Joe Mays
Andy Studebaker
King Dunlap


Verdict: 2 JAG’s

C.J. Gaddis
Brent Celek
Rashad Barksdale
Nate Ilaoa


Verdict: 1 Nice Pick

Max Jean-Gilles
Jason Avant
Jeremy Bloom
Omar Gaither
LaJuan Ramsey


Verdict: 1 Nice Pick (Aant) and 1 JAG (MJG)

Sean Considine
Todd Herremans
Trent Cole
Scott Young
Calvin Armstrong
Keyonta Marshall
David Bergeron


Verdict: 1 Really Nice pick 1 good pick (Herremans)
5 Years: 5 JAG’s, 2 Nice picks, 1 Really nice pick

Redskins
Cody Glenn
Robert Henson
Eddie Williams
Marko Mitchell


Verdict: Nothing

Justin Tryon
Durant Brooks
Kareem Moore
Colt Brennan
Rob Jackson
Chris Horton


Verdict: Horton was a flash but nothing now. Nothing

Dallas Sartz
H.B. Blades
Jordan Palmer
Tyler Ecker


Verdict: Nothing

Anthony Montgomery
Reed Doughty
Kedric Golston
Kili Lefotu
Kevin Simon


Verdict: 2 JAG’s

Manuel White
Robert McCune
Jared Newberry
Nehemiah Broughton


Verdict: Nothing
5 Years: 2 JAG’s

Cowboys

Stephen McGee
Victor Butler
Brandon Williams
DeAngelo Smith
Michael Hamlin
David Buehler
Stephen Hodge
John Phillips
Mike Mickens
Manuel Johnson


Verdict: 2 JAG’s Butler & Phillips

Tashard Choice
Orlando Scandrick
Erik Walden


Verdict: 3 Nice picks

Isaiah Stanback
Doug Free
Nick Folk
Deon Anderson
Courtney L. Brown
Alan Ball


Verdict: 1 JAG (Ball) 2 Nice picks (Folk & Free)

Skyler Green
Pat Watkins
Montavious Stanley
Pat McQuistan
E.J. Whitley


Verdict: 1 JAG

Marion Barber
Chris L. Canty
Justin Beriault
Rob Petitti
Jay Ratliff


Verdict: 3 Really Nice Picks.
5 Years: 3 Really Nice Picks, 5 Nice Picks, 4 JAG’s.

One could argue that Dallas has actually been better than it’s NFC East counterparts. I'm not doing this to say that the Cowboys are good drafters, but I dispute the conventional wisdom that they are one of the worst
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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The cowboys were gifted a qb and the giants had to use several picks on one . Both qb's are equal and they still stomp us.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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The cowboys were gifted a qb and the giants had to use several picks on one . Both qb's are equal and they still stomp us.
Fair point. What makes you so sure?
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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Outside of Claiborne, do you guys have a favorite pick of ours?
Not really. I like the positions we drafted but I'm not necessarily in love with the players. Crawford looks like he has potential to develop into a nice pass rusher, it's just I viewed him as a true base 4-3 End during the draft process so I'm still trying to figure out where he fits here as an every down player. Still, he's intriguing.

Wilber is another guy who doesn't really seem to fit our scheme, but I like the versatility he offers from the OLB position. He seems like a 4-3 SAM, likes to sift his way through traffic and looks comfortable playing in space. I also like his ability to use his length to match up on TEs in the passing game. Still developing as a pass rusher, but he's got a nice starter set of physical tools to work with.

Looking at those 2 picks, I'm more intrigued with the multiple fronts Rob likes to run. These guys are 4-3 players by trade, I can buy into them developing into 3-4 players down the line... but I can see them being major contributors in our even fronts Year 1.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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I've heard and read a ton of negative here in DFW about the Cowboys and their drafting. Specifically, Norm has spent a ton of time railing on the Cowboys for their drafts after the 4th round.

Here's my look at 2009-2005 drafts of NFC East from the 4th round on. Source: pro football reference

Giants:

Andre Brown
Rhett Bomar
DeAndre Wright
Stoney Woodson

Verdict: Nothing

Bryan Kehl
Jonathan Goff
Andre Woodson
Robert Henderson


Verdict: 2 JAG’s

Zak DeOssie
LB
Kevin Boss
TE
Adam Koets
T
Michael Johnson
DB
Ahmad Bradshaw
RB


Verdict: 2 very nice picks

Barry Cofield
DT
Guy Whimper
DE
Charlie Peprah
DB
Gerrick McPhearson
DB


Verdict: 1 Nice pick

Brandon Jacobs
Eric Moore


Verdict: 1 Nice pick

5 Years: 4 Nice picks and 2 JAG’s

Eagles

Cornelius Ingram
Victor Harris
Fenuki Tupou
Brandon Gibson
Paul Fanaika
Moise Fokou


Verdict: 2 JAG’s

Mike McGlynn
Quintin Demps
Jack Ikegwuonu
Mike Gibson
Joe Mays
Andy Studebaker
King Dunlap


Verdict: 2 JAG’s

C.J. Gaddis
Brent Celek
Rashad Barksdale
Nate Ilaoa


Verdict: 1 Nice Pick

Max Jean-Gilles
Jason Avant
Jeremy Bloom
Omar Gaither
LaJuan Ramsey


Verdict: 1 Nice Pick (Aant) and 1 JAG (MJG)

Sean Considine
Todd Herremans
Trent Cole
Scott Young
Calvin Armstrong
Keyonta Marshall
David Bergeron


Verdict: 1 Really Nice pick 1 good pick (Herremans)
5 Years: 5 JAG’s, 2 Nice picks, 1 Really nice pick

Redskins
Cody Glenn
Robert Henson
Eddie Williams
Marko Mitchell


Verdict: Nothing

Justin Tryon
Durant Brooks
Kareem Moore
Colt Brennan
Rob Jackson
Chris Horton


Verdict: Horton was a flash but nothing now. Nothing

Dallas Sartz
H.B. Blades
Jordan Palmer
Tyler Ecker


Verdict: Nothing

Anthony Montgomery
Reed Doughty
Kedric Golston
Kili Lefotu
Kevin Simon


Verdict: 2 JAG’s

Manuel White
Robert McCune
Jared Newberry
Nehemiah Broughton


Verdict: Nothing
5 Years: 2 JAG’s

Cowboys

Stephen McGee
Victor Butler
Brandon Williams
DeAngelo Smith
Michael Hamlin
David Buehler
Stephen Hodge
John Phillips
Mike Mickens
Manuel Johnson


Verdict: 2 JAG’s Butler & Phillips

Tashard Choice
Orlando Scandrick
Erik Walden


Verdict: 3 Nice picks

Isaiah Stanback
Doug Free
Nick Folk
Deon Anderson
Courtney L. Brown
Alan Ball


Verdict: 1 JAG (Ball) 2 Nice picks (Folk & Free)

Skyler Green
Pat Watkins
Montavious Stanley
Pat McQuistan
E.J. Whitley


Verdict: 1 JAG

Marion Barber
Chris L. Canty
Justin Beriault
Rob Petitti
Jay Ratliff


Verdict: 3 Really Nice Picks.
5 Years: 3 Really Nice Picks, 5 Nice Picks, 4 JAG’s.

One could argue that Dallas has actually been better than it’s NFC East counterparts. I'm not doing this to say that the Cowboys are good drafters, but I dispute the conventional wisdom that they are one of the worst
What an excellent breakdown!!! Awesome post Macarthur! It does seem like our grades vary depending on who you ask. Kiper gave us a C+ which was easily towards the bottom of his list. That said, his grades are usually way off base when you have a chance to look 3 years back or so.

It's understandable to see why some people would feel down on our draft though. I really don't love it myself past round 3. But what will be telling... something I'm really interested in finding out... is if this whole philosophy works out. We passed up on some prime talent because of character issues. So I really want to see if this holy moly concept works out for the Cowboys.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Not really. I like the positions we drafted but I'm not necessarily in love with the players. Crawford looks like he has potential to develop into a nice pass rusher, it's just I viewed him as a true base 4-3 End during the draft process so I'm still trying to figure out where he fits here as an every down player. Still, he's intriguing.
I know right??? That's why he flew under our noses, imo. Same thing happened when we took Bruce Carter last year. You never know with this team.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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I know right??? That's why he flew under our noses, imo. Same thing happened when we took Bruce Carter last year. You never know with this team.
I went back and expanded on that thought in my original post, I think a lot of it has to do with Rob mixing in 4 man fronts and wanting to get some players who can play that defense. Crawford and Wilber look way more attractive to me if that's the plan instead of just trying to groom them into 3-4 players.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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I went back and expanded on that thought in my original post, I think a lot of it has to do with Rob mixing in 4 man fronts and wanting to get some players who can play that defense. Crawford and Wilber look way more attractive to me if that's the plan instead of just trying to groom them into 3-4 players.
Well considering that we played a base 3-4 front only 30% of the time last year, it makes sense. There was an article in one of the Dallas papers that broke it down. I posted it earlier but have no clue where it is now.
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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Outside of Claiborne, do you guys have a favorite pick of ours?
For me it's Wilber. He's got experience at doing everything, and he's a very good athlete with a lot of hustle. The more I think about it the more I like the pick.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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Outside of Claiborne, do you guys have a favorite pick of ours?
James Hanna. If we are only counting draft picks. Loved him before the draft and I love getting him in the 6th. He could easily be a #1 TE in this league in the same mold as Witten (catches everything, deceptively great route runner, efficient blocker).

If we count UDFA's then I'll shower more love on Adrian Hamilton. Not sure if it was on here or over at BtB but I was hoping we would of drafted him in the 7th to ensure we nabbed him. Couple of the guys other there pointed him before the draft and I was hooked.

I also like Crawford a lot although I think he's going to be a nickel guy early and develop into a top 1-gap 5-tech.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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For me it's Wilber. He's got experience at doing everything, and he's a very good athlete with a lot of hustle. The more I think about it the more I like the pick.
Really liking Wilbur after reading the writeup this morning after googling him up when he was discussed here.

He must've wowed Ryan, could be an under the radar steal. Just thinking about how Ryan will use him, young fresh legs behind Ware when Ware plays the 5 tech on passing downs --Wilbur will benefit from the dbl. team Ware constantly warrants, crash the opponent's strong side pass protection.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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The more I think about it, the more I get excited about Tyrone Crawford.

When we talked about who we wanted at 14, Cox and Coples were a couple of names that more than a few mentioned, including myself. The fact that we liked Cox and Coples went to the Jets, makes me think that a player in that mold is someone who both Ryan brothers would like. Crawford was one of the few players who fit that mold as well. Played both DT and DE for the Broncos and is known as a pass rusher.

Broddaus said:

Why He's Special: Is a relentless player in his effort...always working to the ball...can handle the double team blocks...will close the hole down inside when asked too...Nice job with his hands...can control blockers...can get the edge as a rusher when he comes from the wide side...wrap up tackler...sideline to sideline type of player...will extend his hands when rushing up the field...nice job of redirection on the screen...wasn't fooled...in position to scoop up a fumble against TCU...then later get sack and cause fumble...finds the ball well...quick inside moves on stunts...avoids blocks...around ball.

Crawford will probably get a lot of playing time this season in the nickel... and that's gonna be a lot. Nickel defense is probably played equally as much as our base defense. So Crawford has the unique skill set to start in the nickel.
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