The 2012 Cowboys Draft Thread

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

I'm just saying, you can't say "he went to this school" or "stay away from 'insert big time D 1 school here' I dont like those guys" and leave it at that. There is nothing wrong with including it in, but what's the point in not going any further with a guy? You'd miss out on some elite players that way every single year.


Now if you aren't really impressed watching him, and he's coming from a school/system that's a red flag for you, nothing at all wrong with that. Just have always thought it was silly to look at the school, say you don't want that guy because he went there, and that's as far as you take it.

I agree, you don't just stop at the school name without evaluating the player.

[yanksknicks]

I love when Longhorn mis-represents an argument to score obvious points.

LL of course you look at the player but many things being equal, I prefer players from the North and West to the South and Southwest. Less payola and corruption, seem more grounded and harder working ... in general.

I love me QB from schools with great academics who are big and have big arms. I love me WR who are fast in the phone both and catch lots of passes in College. I love me OL from the Big Ten. I like poor country boys for LB and CB. DL, angry nasty mo-fos from cities. Lots more then athletics goes into it IMHO.

What don't I like? Allegedly great players on teams so stacked that at times it is hard to tell if they are good or if the other 10 guys are simply covering for him. LSU Defensive Players. Alabama, etc. Some of those U teams in the 80/90 ... Bill Hawkins step right up!

[LonghornsLegend]

Well, this wasn't too big of a shocker but still, how far does OLB vault up our board?

The Cowboys are expected to let free agent OLB Anthony Spencer test the open market.

According to Pro Football Weekly, Dallas wants to revamp the strong side of its defense and LE Kenyon Coleman may also be out. Spencer never took the next step as a pass rusher in five seasons with Dallas, maxing out with six sacks in 2011 and 2009. He'll still attract plenty of interest after forcing four fumbles this past season and playing tough run defense.
Source: Pro Football Weekly

I guess it depends on what we feel about Victor Butler too. I think pass rushing wise there wouldn't be a drop off, but overall, plugging gaps, and run support we wouldn't be as stout.


Me personally I have OLB pretty high up on the need list. Right up there with CB. I feel like if you have relentless pass rushers who can get after the QB, it makes everything else improve. Lack luster Safeties all of a sudden don't have to cover as long, same with CB's. The D-line gets single coverage across the board.


I think Butler is good enough to start personally, but I'd love to hit the bank with an elite OLB & elite CB more then anything this off-season. Wishful thinking? Certainly. Even getting 1 would be nice. But if I just had to throw out the two positions I want to upgrade the most it's easily CB and OLB. I feel like we are wasting 15+ sack seasons with Ware in his prime because we can't consistently find a guy who can get 10, and with all the attention Ware gets how hard should that be?


Interior O-line, ILB, D-line I don't want to ignore, and obviously I'm more a proponent of bpa but I'd be worried without 2 big upgrades there.



Edit: Spencer is going to end up on a 4-3 team, and be a really solid pick-up for somebody. I feel like they'll give him alot more attention then 3-4 teams will for some reason, and that defense probably suits him better. He's not a bad player what so ever, and somebody will be really happy with him.

[D-Unit]

I don't think Spencer will do anything in a 4-3 that will make us say wow. He won't vault into anything more than what he's shown us. He's been put in every position to succeed here, including the same role he would have in the 4-3 anywhere else.

[Macarthur]

Spencer is JAG. Period.

[TheFinisher]

Spencer=Bust

And he is incredibly overrated as a run defender, I love when Cowboy fans use that when defending his suckitude as a pass rusher. "He's a beast against the run tho bro."

[LonghornsLegend]

I think he's a bust too, and he sucks for what his position is in our defense, but I don't think he'll be useless for a 4-3 team. He is solid against the run, I don't think anyone is going to mistake him for Haloti Ngata, but he's been racking up 60 tackles a season for the last few years.


I most definately don't want him back, but I'm still pretty confident he'll go somewhere to start and be 'solid'. Though I really could care less because we need the position upgraded in a big way.

[CDCB14]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

I think he's a bust too, and he sucks for what his position is in our defense, but I don't think he'll be useless for a 4-3 team. He is solid against the run, I don't think anyone is going to mistake him for Haloti Ngata, but he's been racking up 60 tackles a season for the last few years.


I most definately don't want him back, but I'm still pretty confident he'll go somewhere to start and be 'solid'. Though I really could care less because we need the position upgraded in a big way.

Well that won't be possible unless we break the bank for Mario Williams. Upshaw is a spencer clone. Mercilus has way to much bust potential, and no one else warrants a top 15 pick. Irvin is a joke. I wouldn't kill myself if we took Upshaw, but it would just be spencer all over again. He has a good attitude and "swag" but who cares? He's a good run defender with average pass rush skills.

[Trogdor]

Originally Posted by CDCB14

[/b]
Well that won't be possible unless we break the bank for Mario Williams. Upshaw is a spencer clone. Mercilus has way to much bust potential, and no one else warrants a top 15 pick. Irvin is a joke. I wouldn't kill myself if we took Upshaw, but it would just be spencer all over again. He has a good attitude and "swag" but who cares? He's a good run defender with average pass rush skills.

I would just cross Upshaw off the board. If the team isn't interested in a solid, run-defense first type of OLB of a known quality (Spencer) they certainly shouldn't look at one of unknown quality.

I would take chances in the second on our top rated OLB and completely ignore the thought of taking someone there in the first. Unless between now and the draft a revelation occurs but I'm not buying the top tier edge rushers being worthy of a 14th pick.

Mario Williams + D.Ware would be unfair.

[CDCB14]

Originally Posted by Trogdor

I would just cross Upshaw off the board. If the team isn't interested in a solid, run-defense first type of OLB of a known quality (Spencer) they certainly shouldn't look at one of unknown quality.

I would take chances in the second on our top rated OLB and completely ignore the thought of taking someone there in the first. Unless between now and the draft a revelation occurs but I'm not buying the top tier edge rushers being worthy of a 14th pick.

Mario Williams + D.Ware would be unfair.

I completely agree with everything said here. If Mario Williams is possible, get him and worry about the other problems later.

[chrlopez1]

We are not getting M Williams. What we need to do is draft Defen. As much as I would not like to re-sign Spencer I think if we can make a good offer we should try to resign him. Looking at all the FA we have..most of them are replaceble. I want back Robinson.

I think I want Kirkpatrick.....in the first round if we can sign Nicks from NO. I would think our offseason would be a success if we can get:

Nicks
either one of spencer or Robinson
and Kirkpatrick.

Remember u just need to draft a top CB at least 1 every 5-6 years. All we need is 1. I would than draft LB and DL help. I think a safety in round 1 is nuts......Draft front 7 and ur secondary become better overnight. Our history shows that our 90's team had great depth at DL and made stars out of:

Kevin Smith
James Washington
Larry..... (MVP)
Kenneth Grant
Woodson

[TACKLE]

I know Cowboy fans have been talking about drafting a true nose and moving Ratliff to DE for a while now. I'm just curious, has anyone in the organization ever indicated something of that nature or is it more so just fan speculation?

[CDCB14]

Originally Posted by TACKLE

I know Cowboy fans have been talking about drafting a true nose and moving Ratliff to DE for a while now. I'm just curious, has anyone in the organization ever indicated something of that nature or is it more so just fan speculation?

Bryan Broaddus, a former Cowboys and Packers scout who now covers the Cowboys for ESPN Dallas said on twitter that the organization is seriously pondering it this off-season. I'm sure he got that information from inside sources. So, I guess you can call that a legitimate indication from the organization.

Ratliff is going to be 31 and just signed a long extension, if they want to get the most productivity out of that deal they should be moving him to DE. He always has a great start to the year, and then fades around December. I don't think that's just a coincidence with the Cowboys "late season collapses" and his relatively light weight for a 3-4 NT.

Now, I don't know if that means they are pondering something like taking Dontari Poe at 14. In fact I doubt it, but if there is a quality true NT to be had in free agency or the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round, I would bet the Cowboys finally do it and move ratliff to DE.

Hope that helps.

[CDCB14]

Want to talk about potential pass rushers...... Ahhh if only Barkevious Mingo declared. I'd take him at 14 and not care about it being a reach. Let him split snaps with Butler until he's ready. He's going to be a STUD.

[TACKLE]

Originally Posted by CDCB14

Bryan Broaddus, a former Cowboys and Packers scout who now covers the Cowboys for ESPN Dallas said on twitter that the organization is seriously pondering it this off-season. I'm sure he got that information from inside sources. So, I guess you can call that a legitimate indication from the organization.

Ratliff is going to be 31 and just signed a long extension, if they want to get the most productivity out of that deal they should be moving him to DE. He always has a great start to the year, and then fades around December. I don't think that's just a coincidence with the Cowboys "late season collapses" and his relatively light weight for a 3-4 NT.

Now, I don't know if that means they are pondering something like taking Dontari Poe at 14. In fact I doubt it, but if there is a quality true NT to be had in free agency or the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round, I would bet the Cowboys finally do it and move ratliff to DE.

Hope that helps.

It does. Thanks.

....

Also, Mingo is going back to school.

[CDCB14]

Originally Posted by TACKLE

It does. Thanks.

....

Also, Mingo is going back to school.

I know, that's why I said if only he declared lol.

It is really going to be interesting to see what the cowboys do at #14. Will Jerry Jones take another OL in DeCastro who isn't even a tackle but a guard? Will Kirkpatrick fall to 14 and even if he does, does he have the speed to play man to man in the NFL? Do they trade down and take someone like Konz? Do they just bite the bullet and take either Upshaw or Mercilus because they have no other choice?

Free agency will tell us a lot, that's for sure.

[chrlopez1]

I think JJ is going to spend money. I think he know he can't afford another year without at least a playoff appearance. I don't know what he is going to buy in FA, but I have feeling the Cowboys will be shoppers in the offseason.

I only show Kirkpatrick in the BCS game and I thought he was a gamer.....He's is slow for a CB? Playing CB is attitude....and I think having a decent pass rush makes any CB good.

Clairbourne could drop....u never know..........

[leroyisgod]

Originally Posted by chrlopez1

I think JJ is going to spend money. I think he know he can't afford another year without at least a playoff appearance. I don't know what he is going to buy in FA, but I have feeling the Cowboys will be shoppers in the offseason.

I only show Kirkpatrick in the BCS game and I thought he was a gamer.....He's is slow for a CB? Playing CB is attitude....and I think having a decent pass rush makes any CB good.

Clairbourne could drop....u never know..........

Looking at who's ahead of us that could take a CB.

3. Vikings
5. Buccaneers
7. Jaguars
8. Panthers
10. Bills
13. Cardinals

Out of these I could really see Bucs and Panthers to be hot on his trail the most. If we wanted to trade up to get Claiborne, we'd probably need to go up to 4. And I'm sure we'd have to give up too much. I'd wait for him to fall and if he gets to like 10 or 11 we wouldn't have to give up the farm for him. And even if we'd have to give up more than a pick, I'd be willing to pass and go with Kirkpatrick if we've already addressed G in FA.

[leroyisgod]

So if Trent Richardson is sitting there at 14, do we even consider it if we've addressed G and CB in FA?

[yanksknicks]

Originally Posted by leroyisgod

So if Trent Richardson is sitting there at 14, do we even consider it if we've addressed G and CB in FA?

I would say we do as much as possible in FA and then use the draft.

As a rule RB in round 1 is a waste IMHO but they usually can contribute day 1.

[Macarthur]

Broaddus said on his radio show this weekend that he's hearing lots of buzz at the ranch about the front office loving Upshaw.

[Macarthur]

Also, the more I look at the DL in this draft, the more I like it. It's looking like we could land a very good DL in the 2nd round.

I wouldn't be too upset with something like Upshaw in the first and and say Fletcher Cox in the 2nd.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Macarthur

Also, the more I look at the DL in this draft, the more I like it. It's looking like we could land a very good DL in the 2nd round.

Derek Wolf.

[pocketaces]

Vinny Curry ;)

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by leroyisgod

So if Trent Richardson is sitting there at 14, do we even consider it if we've addressed G and CB in FA?

Lol no. I don't know why anyone would think that. Demarco Murray is getting 22+ carries a game, and 4-5 catches a game, where is the need for a 1st rd RB at? If anyone could ever make an honest, legitimate case for it, then fire away. I'd love to hear it.


I'm all for taking a RB in the middle rounds, but seeing where we took Barber, Choice, Murray, and seeing the production we got out of those guys as rookies, somehow we need a 1st round RB when we have a feature back already?


There just isn't enough carries to go around, we aren't going to give Murray 15 carries, and Richardson 10. We also aren't giving Richardson 20, and Murray 5. It's never going to happen and isn't realistic. We couldn't even figure out how to work Felix in the game.


With how terrible this defense is, and blocking can be at times, I'm surprised any of us would even ponder a RB in the 1st round. Our history, and the history of the NFL draft itself, has shown that you can draft a ton of good RB's all through the draft, taking a RB in the top 15? That's a luxury we aren't even close to having.