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Old 03-06-2012, 07:18 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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A woman called into "The Lunch Break" today and made an obvious but great point about the Anthony Spencer situation and how it personifies why our team struggles to be consistent.

Her basic point was that we never draft ahead of the curve, meaning we never draft a player where he may not be at a position of need that coming year, but in 2-3 years he will fill a void caused by either age or a guy leaving in free agency. Her other point was that we don't build on strengths, which is a direct consequence from the first point. (and what I have been saying for a while now)

I used to defend Jerry Jones on most things, but I am really starting to see why everyone hates him as a general manager. We may have some good starters in place, but we have absolutely no back-ups ANYWHERE. Maybe Victor Butler and Laurent Robinson if he comes back, and a bit of depth on the DL although we don't have good starters so it doesn't matter. Until we change this philosophy of drafting (and i'm hoping Garrett sees this and will do better) we will never be consistent winners. We may have a good team 1 year, and the next year we suck because guys either get old or leave in free agency, or get injured during the season and we don't have enough resources to replace them. You only get one first round pick.

Until the depth of this football team gets drastically better, we will never have a chance. That's why we always falter in December. I used to be a homer who thought it was coincidence, but I have seen the light.

I have no faith in this team. We don't build. We take 1 step forward and then 4 steps backwards. Sorry for being negative nancy, but there really is no way around it. The Anthony Spencer situation is the epitome of this. It's what the good teams and what the teams like us don't do. Don't cover your bases at even your positions of strength and you will never get better.
Or we try and just failed. Had Victor Butler or Brandon Williams paid off as good decisions then Spencer could have been easily let go. Had Jason Williams not busted, then we would hear no talk about Brooking coming back. Had Robert Brewster (3rd rounder) develop right or if we made a different pick instead, then we might not be interested in names like Nicks and DeCastro. The list goes on and on.

But I do have hopes for David Arkin, Bruce Carter, Sean Lissemore, Josh Brent, Victor Butler, Dwayne Harris, Jason Phillips having bigger roles as they develop more and more. So it's not like the cupboard is completely bare.

I think it's fair for teams to use 1st rounder on NEEDS versus future projects, and Jerry has hit on his fair share. I also think he hit real gold on guys like Demarco Murray and Sean Lee.

The way I see Jerry is that he does both good and bad. I will criticize him for bad and praise him for good. I'm at the point that I can accept/support/like him as a GM because I don't think he makes decisions solely on his own, yet he takes full blame. ...and really, when it comes to hits and misses, every GM in the league has a full rap sheet on decisions they wish they could undo. We haven't been winning SBs lately, but we've been relatively successful. Our fanbase as a whole hasn't been in the dumps like the Redskins and a bunch of other NFL walkovers.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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Or we try and just failed. Had Victor Butler or Brandon Williams paid off as good decisions then Spencer could have been easily let go. Had Jason Williams not busted, then we would hear no talk about Brooking coming back. Had Robert Brewster (3rd rounder) develop right or if we made a different pick instead, then we might not be interested in names like Nicks and DeCastro. The list goes on and on.

But I do have hopes for David Arkin, Bruce Carter, Sean Lissemore, Josh Brent, Victor Butler, Dwayne Harris, Jason Phillips having bigger roles as they develop more and more. So it's not like the cupboard is completely bare.

I think it's fair for teams to use 1st rounder on NEEDS versus future projects, and Jerry has hit on his fair share. I also think he hit real gold on guys like Demarco Murray and Sean Lee.

The way I see Jerry is that he does both good and bad. I will criticize him for bad and praise him for good. I'm at the point that I can accept/support/like him as a GM because I don't think he makes decisions solely on his own, yet he takes full blame. ...and really, when it comes to hits and misses, every GM in the league has a full rap sheet on decisions they wish they could undo. We haven't been winning SBs lately, but we've been relatively successful. Our fanbase as a whole hasn't been in the dumps like the Redskins and a bunch of other NFL walkovers.
The thing I hate is that Jerry has already done it this off-season by saying the team won't draft a QB in the mid to late rounds because Romo has plenty of years left..

WHO CARES? I am of the philosophy that you should draft a later round QB every two years just to see what you have. If Romo is still playing at a high level and the draft pick turns out good then trade him for a decent draft pick.

He just doesn't think ahead. It's always about right now. That can be a good thing at times, but not all the time. You have to think about the future and do the best you can to cover your bases. Obviously your not going to have pro-bowlers as back ups at every position, but certainly we should be in a lot better shape than we currently are.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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I noticed pocketaces mentioned Bruce Irvin. I get tingly when I watch his videos. If you haven't looked at his combine results/videos, look again. I would take him sight unseen over Spencer right now.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:27 AM    (permalink
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Think Irvin makes it to round 3?
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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Think Irvin makes it to round 3?
Well his tape isn't super stellar but he was played out of position. His short shuttle and suddenness is going to intrigue someone. If he shows really well on his pro day I wouldn't be shocked to see late 1-early 2nd. Unless he falls on his face I can't see him in the 3rd. Stranger things have happened though :)
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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Well his tape isn't super stellar but he was played out of position. His short shuttle and suddenness is going to intrigue someone. If he shows really well on his pro day I wouldn't be shocked to see late 1-early 2nd. Unless he falls on his face I can't see him in the 3rd. Stranger things have happened though :)
Scares me that he might just be a workout warrior.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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Scares me that he might just be a workout warrior.
Somewhat a concern. :) When you watch him on tape you can really tell WVU screwed him over a bit in terms of his potential draft stock. He definitely needs a ton of polish but the basic skillset is there.

Btw per NFP:

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Some of the buzz coming out of the NFL Combine is that a number of NFL teams are now looking at Alabama DB Dre Kirkpatrick as the top safety prospect in the draft.
xD Can't say half of us didn't call that one.

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Old 03-07-2012, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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I like Kirkpatrick, but I would rather take Barron if you're going for a safety. I know there is the concern since he's hurt, but you're not just drafting him for this year. That's what made the Sean Lee pick so awesome, and hopefully the Bruce Carter pick as well. You want these guys to be long term starters, so a current injury really shouldn't hurt them too much if they are a good looking prospect. If Barron slips to the second I'd be all over him.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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I like Kirkpatrick, but I would rather take Barron if you're going for a safety. I know there is the concern since he's hurt, but you're not just drafting him for this year. That's what made the Sean Lee pick so awesome, and hopefully the Bruce Carter pick as well. You want these guys to be long term starters, so a current injury really shouldn't hurt them too much if they are a good looking prospect. If Barron slips to the second I'd be all over him.
Barron's injury isn't like Lee's or Carter's at all. He had a double sports hernia. He'll be 100% in 6 weeks tops after surgery. Isn't he scheduled to work out before the draft?

Anyway, to the possibility of Kirkpatrick at FS.. I like it. Before people jump on me for being a hypocrite because I do hate position changes, let me explain. If the team picks up Brandon Carr and finally wants to get a real coverage safety who isn't a stop gap, the only real way to go would be trying to convert Kirkpatrick because Barron is more of a box player. I wouldn't mind the Barron pick, but he isn't a center fielder. Mike Adams seems to be decent at coverage, but the organization may be tired of stop gaps. So comes the possibility of Kirkpatrick.

I would try it out after you have covered all of your bases. Bring in Kirkpatrick to valley ranch for one of the pre-draft visits the team is allowed, and I would need to be absolutely certain on two things:

1. He is willing to play safety. Some CB's have pride issues and won't play safety. I would sit down with him and make sure he is completely willing to make the transition and work hard.

2. Put him through a serious workout with Jerome Henderson to see if he can play safety. Go through everything from basic scheme concepts and zone drops, all the way to possibly bringing the whole secondary in and sticking him in at free safety and seeing how it goes.

If both of those things come back positive, i'd do it. He also would need to seriously bulk up. at 6'2'' 186, he better live with Woicik put on another 15-20 pounds before the season starts.

I'm actually really intrigued by this idea now. Adding Carr at CB and Kirkpatrick at FS if it would work would make our secondary instantly from terrible to arguably top 5 in the league.

Speaking of Alabama players, Upshaw skipped of out his pro-day today with "knee tendinitis." He really must not want to run his 40. Not that it affects my opinion of him that much, but I really would hate picking him at 14. He's really just Spencer, and maybe even worse because Spencer is longer and more athletic than him. I don't think they want to go in that direction, but I would probably hate that pick more than anything. At least Ingram is a pretty dynamic with some tenacity. Upshaw is just blah. Just a run stuffer who will probably get 5-7 sacks a year and probably less pressures and passes batted down than Spencer. No thanks.

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Old 03-07-2012, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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I completely agree with thule. You guys try to change positions of people way too much. Dre Kirkpatrick is a 1st round pick as a CB. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. He can play.

I remember last year D-Unit wanted patrick peterson and then move him to free safety? Were you drunk? He's a CB. The reason his is so good is because he has safety size with CB skill. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. That's why Kirkpatrick is attractive. You can put him on bigger WR's.

You guys need to stop wanting to change these guys positions. Kirkpatrick is way more fluid than Antrel Rolle or Malcolm Jenkins. Who cares if he's 6'2''? If Janoris Jenkins was 3 inches taller would you be saying the same thing for him?

Moving Ratliff to DE is one thing, wanting to move every bigger CB to FS is another. It doesn't work that way. Name one guy who successfully made the switch besides Rod Woodson. It's not some every day thing. Kirkpatrick is a CB.
Look whos changing
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Old 03-07-2012, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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Look whos changing
I said in the post "don't call me a hypocrite on this one I admit I hate positional changes." If we don't land Carr i'd want to leave Kirkpatrick at CB, but if we do get him i'd be all for the experiment.

Relax amigo.
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Old 03-07-2012, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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I said in the post "don't call me a hypocrite on this one I admit I hate positional changes." If we don't land Carr i'd want to leave Kirkpatrick at CB, but if we do get him i'd be all for the experiment.

Relax amigo.
Oh. I am relaxed. I just find it funny that you ripped people for wanting to put Kirkpatrick at safety, now because the "experts" are saying it might be a good fit you think its fine. Its the same guy!! Nothing about him has changed in the last month but now safety is something your interested in, when a few weeks ago you were saying it doesnt work that way and basically calling people stupid? Its all good though, just giving you a hard time
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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Oh. I am relaxed. I just find it funny that you ripped people for wanting to put Kirkpatrick at safety, now because the "experts" are saying it might be a good fit you think its fine. Its the same guy!! Nothing about him has changed in the last month but now safety is something your interested in, when a few weeks ago you were saying it doesnt work that way and basically calling people stupid? Its all good though, just giving you a hard time
I hope this is a lesson to CDCB to give those who have their own lines of opinions a break when they aren't in line with the "experts".
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:19 PM    (permalink
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Oh. I am relaxed. I just find it funny that you ripped people for wanting to put Kirkpatrick at safety, now because the "experts" are saying it might be a good fit you think its fine. Its the same guy!! Nothing about him has changed in the last month but now safety is something your interested in, when a few weeks ago you were saying it doesnt work that way and basically calling people stupid? Its all good though, just giving you a hard time
As one of the stupid people who originally brought it up. You said it yourself though. This team has lacked a centerfield FS far too long. And nobody can say that cornerbacks dont play with more confidence when theres not some hack playing behind them either. That said, i would still rather get him in a trade down.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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I hope this is a lesson to CDCB to give those who have their own lines of opinions a break when they aren't in line with the "experts".
You misunderstood what I try to do by looking at "experts." I try to find out concrete facts as far as what we are going to do in the draft and free agency, who will and who won't be available, etc. That is what you are supposed to do. Why guess on the factual stuff. As far the potential free agents and draft picks go, i'm as original as they come. Was it not me who wanted Hightower in the 2nd round and you laughed at it because I "support" Bruce Carter, but now in your mock off-season you traded back into the 1st round to get him?

I research the internet and find sources for factual things, like Carl Nicks hitting the open market. Guessing like you did saying the Saints will keep him because they would strike a contract with Drew Brees was obviously not going to happen and all you had to do was google it. Being unorthodox doesn't mean your smarter than anyone. And I'm not aiming that at you I am saying that in general.

I have a completely open mind when it comes to planning my own free agency and draft ideas. I'm the one who wants a guard in the 1st round when most don't. I want to pick up Carl Nicks when most don't. I wouldn't mind Barron at 14. I hate Upshaw and Ingram. I don't like Janoris Jenkins because he's basically Scandrick. I would love Kuechly at 14 and find something to do with Bruce Carter. I have plenty of my own original opinions. I look up factual sources on tangible things that shouldn't have opinions attached to them... like Carl Nicks hitting the open market.

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Old 03-07-2012, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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You misunderstood what I try to do by looking at "experts." I try to find out concrete facts as far as what we are going to do in the draft and free agency, who will and who won't be available, etc. That is what you are supposed to do. Why guess on the factual stuff. As far the potential free agents and draft picks go, i'm as original as they come. Was it not me who wanted Hightower in the 2nd round and you laughed at it because I "support" Bruce Carter, but now in your mock off-season you traded back into the 1st round to get him?

I research the internet and find sources for factual things, like Carl Nicks hitting the open market. Guessing like you did saying the Saints will keep him because they would strike a contract with Drew Brees was obviously not going to happen and all you had to do was google it. Being unorthodox doesn't mean your smarter than anyone. And I'm not aiming that at you I am saying that in general.

I have a completely open mind when it comes to planning my own free agency and draft ideas. I'm the one who wants a guard in the 1st round when most don't. I want to pick up Carl Nicks when most don't. I wouldn't mind Barron at 14. I hate Upshaw and Ingram. I don't like Janoris Jenkins because he's basically Scandrick. I would love Kuechly at 14 and find something to do with Bruce Carter. I have plenty of my own original opinions. I look up factual sources on tangible things that shouldn't have opinions attached to them... like Carl Nicks hitting the open market.
YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go watch Beavis and Butthead bro..
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CDCB14 View Post
Go watch Beavis and Butthead bro..
You quote Broaddus like it's your job. Stop acting like all of your draft or FA ideas are your own based on your master scouting.

And I'm not your BRO!!!
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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You quote Broaddus like it's your job. Stop acting like all of your draft or FA ideas are your own based on your master scouting.

And I'm not your BRO!!!
I quote him on tangible things that he has heard. Such as the team wants more size at CB so Kirkpatrick is a more likely option than Jenkins, that they we're going to franchise Spencer way back before people even though about it, etc.

Why not take those things into account? Why blindly think this team is going to pick Jenkins when they aren't? It makes no sense and is just a waste of time. Live in fantasy land all you want, but i'll form my conclusion with factual information from reliable sources. Why think the team is going to get Mario Williams when they clearly aren't interested at all because we don't run a 4-3 and we don't have the money? Use your head.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:24 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CDCB14 View Post
I quote him on tangible things that he has heard. Such as the team wants more size at CB so Kirkpatrick is a more likely option than Jenkins, that they we're going to franchise Spencer way back before people even though about it, etc.

Why not take those things into account? Why blindly think this team is going to pick Jenkins when they aren't? It makes no sense and is just a waste of time. Live in fantasy land all you want, but i'll form my conclusion with factual information from reliable sources. Why think the team is going to get Mario Williams when they clearly aren't interested at all because we don't run a 4-3 and we don't have the money? Use your head.
Weren't you the one all over Nicks when the team and our "inside" sources never even mentioned his name? Aren't we allowed to express our opinions on what "we" feel the team should do? You contradict yourself at every turn. One moment you say that we shouldn't talk about players that the team isn't going to take. Then at the next turn you're all over players that you even admit yourself we won't take. Now USE YOUR HEAD!!!
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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Interesting late round name that came up today when reading about texas a&m pro day. Late round DB sounds nice.

Quote:
Lionel Smith, DB (5-11 3/4, 192) ó Heís someone weíre adding. He didnít play a lot in college; when Judie was hurt he played in his place. Smith had a good workout, ran 4.46 and 4.48 40s, had a 38-inch vertical, 10-7 broad, 4.22 short shuttle, 7.01 cone and 16 strength lifts. He probably has a chance to be a seventh-round pick or a priority free agent because of his speed and athletic ability.
http://blogs.nfl.com/category/pro-days/

A name I have my eye on depending on what happens with Robinson in FA. Here is a guy who is going to fall because of injuries but he just went off at his proday. Besting his numbers from the combine by a lot.

Quote:
Wide receiver Gregory Childs was easily the star of the Arkansasí pro day on Tuesday.

Childs, who weighed in at 212 pounds, ran the 40-yard dash in 4.40 and 4.39 seconds and impressed NFL observers with his skills during an outstanding position workout. He also had a 40 1/2-inch vertical jump and a 10-foot-7 broad jump.
Another WR to keep an eye on if Robinson goes elsewhere.

Quote:
A.J. Jenkins, WR (6-0 1/8, 186) ó Jenkins ran a 4.06-second short shuttle and a 6.73-second three-cone drill. He looked good catching the ball and running routes. Itís so hard to predict WRs because there are so many of them, but he ran extremely well at the combine, and he caught the ball well Tuesday. Anytime youíve got a guy over 6-feet tall, runs a sub-4.4 40-yard dash and who catches the ball well, thatís an indicator heís a third-, fourth-round type of guy.
Miami Pro Day OG Brooks blew up
Quote:
Brooks measured at 6-foot-5, 346 pounds with 32 5/8-inch arms, and was clocked at 5.0 and 4.98 seconds in his two 40-yard dashes. Brooks then posted 4.58 seconds in the short shuttle drill, and a three-cone drill time of 7.42 seconds. He also threw up 225 pounds 36 times in the bench press. Brooks later went through positional drills conducted by a member of the Steelers organization.
Name tied to a visit to us..haven't seen any others yet.
Quote:
DB Brandon Hogan (5-10 1/2, 190) chose to bypass the pro-day look-see as he continues to nurse the anterior cruciate ligament he injured last season. Hogan had the left knee examined in Indianapolis this week and appears to be in good health. He has scheduled visits with the Giants, Panthers and Cowboys ahead of the April 28-30 NFL draft.
Orson Charles, Georgia didn't have a great workout but he is a guy who I think might be a decent replacement for martellus. Most polished blocked or the TE's in this class. Might fall to the 3rd with his slow proday time. He says he runs 4.5's and that is what makes him available in the 3rd round. Not a lot of size but something to think about. 3rd's probably a little too high for my taste for a backup TE anyways.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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Orson Charles, Georgia didn't have a great workout but he is a guy who I think might be a decent replacement for martellus. Most polished blocked or the TE's in this class. Might fall to the 3rd with his slow proday time. He says he runs 4.5's and that is what makes him available in the 3rd round. Not a lot of size but something to think about. 3rd's probably a little too high for my taste for a backup TE anyways.
We don't need a "blocking" tight end. Martellus was one of the best in the league and look at how much good he did us.. With the emergence of DeMarco Murray and fixing the interior OL, our running game should be the best it has been in a while. Jason Witten and John Phillips are good enough blockers for the position.

Give me an athlete who will just make plays when the other team leasts expects it. That's why my top two are LaDarius Green and Michael Egnew. Both should be able to be had in the 4th, hopefully even available at our compensatory pick. Both in the 6'5'' to 6'6'' range and around 240-250 pounds, with athleticism and good hands. They should be useful on second and third downs when they get a favorable match-up on a safety or a linebacker. Also potential on random tight end screens.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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We don't need a "blocking" tight end. Martellus was one of the best in the league and look at how much good he did us.. With the emergence of DeMarco Murray and fixing the interior OL, our running game should be the best it has been in a while. Jason Witten and John Phillips are good enough blockers for the position.

Give me an athlete who will just make plays when the other team leasts expects it. That's why my top two are LaDarius Green and Michael Egnew. Both should be able to be had in the 4th, hopefully even available at our compensatory pick. Both in the 6'5'' to 6'6'' range and around 240-250 pounds, with athleticism and good hands. They should be useful on second and third downs when they get a favorable match-up on a safety or a linebacker. Also potential on random tight end screens.
I like the idea of getting an athletic TE. However, I have some doubt that both of those guys will be there beyond the 3rd.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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I like the idea of getting an athletic TE. However, I have some doubt that both of those guys will be there beyond the 3rd.
The TE crop this year is very thin. I agree, I doubt those guys will be there past round 3. If we take a TE, it shouldn't be until rounds 4-5 at the minimum.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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McShay has us taking Janoris Jenkins in his latest and Kiper Jr has us taking Mark Barron. Boo to Kiper and I'm okay with Jenkins, but I'd rather trade back for him.
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