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View Poll Results: How many games would the Colts win this year if Peyton Manning didn't play?
Less than 4 68 48.57%
4-5 46 32.86%
6-7 17 12.14%
8-9 5 3.57%
10+ 4 2.86%
Voters: 140. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-22-2011, 11:52 PM    (permalink
niel89
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I'm going under 4 wins. The team is completely built upon Manning being out there. His ability to put himself in good protections and audible to a better play cover a lot of the OL deficiencies. The offensive skill players are good but I absolutely think Manning makes them look better than what they really are. Also the defense is made to rush the passer because the other team should be behind and have to pass to catch up.
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:23 AM    (permalink
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0 wins, I believe that. Maybe they get extremely lucky and win 1 in a fluke or maybe week 17 when a playoff team completely lays over.
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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If Curtis Painter started all of the games I'd say 2 to 3 wins. I'd get the feeling that Painter would be pulled before then. I'm surprised he's still on the team to be honest, let alone the main backup. Sorgi even seemed better. Manning has a few more years left probably, but they should really start thinking about his replacement.
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:42 AM    (permalink
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I'm not sure if some of you realize just what 0 wins means. I mean, even when the Lions did it, they didn't get blown out every time. The Colts would still have Wayne, Clark, Garcon, Gonzalez, and Collie on offense and Freeney and Mathis on defense...I think they'd be able to make enough plays to win a couple of games. The odds of them losing 16 times are just astronomical. Some other team will have one bad day against them..and sometimes games are decided by a simple bounce of the ball, sometimes literally.
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:47 AM    (permalink
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I'm not sure if some of you realize just what 0 wins means. I mean, even when the Lions did it, they didn't get blown out every time. The Colts would still have Wayne, Clark, Garcon, Gonzalez, and Collie on offense and Freeney and Mathis on defense...I think they'd be able to make enough plays to win a couple of games. The odds of them losing 16 times are just astronomical. Some other team will have one bad day against them..and sometimes games are decided by a simple bounce of the ball, sometimes literally.
The problem is that defense can't do stop the run. If the colts can't score, the other team is just going to run at freeney and mathis which negates that defense's greatest strength, their pass rush. Teams don't have to catch up or keep up with Painter in there at QB.
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:51 AM    (permalink
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There have been some really bad teams in NFL history. It's even extremely rare just to win one game, let alone practically impossible to win zero. What the Lions did a few seasons ago was just as uncommon as what the Patriots did in winning all of their regular season games. Losing Manning would hurt, but they still have enough good players to at least win a couple of games.
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:58 AM    (permalink
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I'm not sure if some of you realize just what 0 wins means. I mean, even when the Lions did it, they didn't get blown out every time. The Colts would still have Wayne, Clark, Garcon, Gonzalez, and Collie on offense and Freeney and Mathis on defense...I think they'd be able to make enough plays to win a couple of games. The odds of them losing 16 times are just astronomical. Some other team will have one bad day against them..and sometimes games are decided by a simple bounce of the ball, sometimes literally.
Their defense is already bad. Playing from behind and having to stop the run would send them to the bottom of the league.

On offense, a coach would actually have to call plays. Who knows if they'd be any good.

That offensive line would become even worse as whatever QB took over wouldn't be as well versed in getting rid of the ball as quickly as Manning.

The run game would face 8 man fronts constantly making an average run game worse.

Receivers like Garcon and Gonzalez would be near non-factors.

All they'd really have going for them would be an aging Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark if he could stay healthy.

Also, I bet opposing teams would average less penalties against a Manning-less Colts than one with Manning at the helm.
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Old 08-23-2011, 02:11 AM    (permalink
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2 or less. They are a horrific team without him and honestly, Manning is what makes that team go. There defense is never great, all they have to do is be solid because Manning can make the offense put up enough points necessary.

Without Manning, there offense won't and can't score. Probably won't win a game if he misses any time.
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Old 08-23-2011, 02:31 AM    (permalink
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Is it safe to say that the Colts could be one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL over the past 6 years (maybe more)? They don't have an OL, their D sucks, RB's are average, and w/o Manning their WR's are average (minus Wayne). They have no solid depth anywhere and their QB situation after Manning is simply unacceptable... Am I being too harsh here or am I imagining things...? If so there has to be a Colts fan that can set me straight.
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Old 08-23-2011, 02:52 AM    (permalink
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Is it safe to say that the Colts could be one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL over the past 6 years (maybe more)? They don't have an OL, their D sucks, RB's are average, and w/o Manning their WR's are average (minus Wayne). They have no solid depth anywhere and their QB situation after Manning is simply unacceptable... Am I being too harsh here or am I imagining things...? If so there has to be a Colts fan that can set me straight.
You're not being too harsh...the guys saying they would have 0 wins have that covered...

But you're pretty much spot on. Year in and year out, they have the same weaknesses. And Bill Polian is using his spot on the competition committee to bend the rules to fit his crappy, finesse system rather than the other way around. This Colts team and his Bills team of the 90s...1/6 in Superbowls despite having 2 HoF QBs, plus countless other playoff failures....
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Old 08-23-2011, 03:43 AM    (permalink
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Is it safe to say that the Colts could be one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL over the past 6 years (maybe more)? They don't have an OL, their D sucks, RB's are average, and w/o Manning their WR's are average (minus Wayne). They have no solid depth anywhere and their QB situation after Manning is simply unacceptable... Am I being too harsh here or am I imagining things...? If so there has to be a Colts fan that can set me straight.
Probably one of the worst teams in drafting for the last few years. I can't remember the last player they got through the draft that has been fairly good. Enough to warrant some accolades. Antoine Bethea?
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Old 08-23-2011, 03:58 AM    (permalink
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Always said the Colts are a 2 win team without Manning.
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Old 08-23-2011, 04:05 AM    (permalink
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Has their ever been a professional team so dependent on one player? At least the Patriots had a good year when Brady went got hurt. The closest team that comes to mind are the Cavs without Lebron.
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Old 08-23-2011, 06:09 AM    (permalink
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Voted for 4-5 as that is the lowest option but I don't think they even can get to 4 wins without Manning. Their backup QB situation is brutal and the team is aging all over the place.
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Old 08-23-2011, 06:11 AM    (permalink
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Has their ever been a professional team so dependent on one player? At least the Patriots had a good year when Brady went got hurt. The closest team that comes to mind are the Cavs without Lebron.
I can't remember the last football team so dependent on a player that's for sure. In the pros that is. The Colts need to seriously start doing some drafting or acquiring better players to help Manning out. Especially if they want to win another championship. Maybe they'll be more healthy this year so that should help. But really, these Colts teams as of late are nothing compared to what Manning had in the middle of the decade.
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Old 08-23-2011, 06:40 AM    (permalink
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So we have one comedian in the room huh? One vote for 10+ wins. LOL.
That offense would be atrocious (worse dropoff than Arizona had the year after Warner left.... or think Carolina last year).
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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LESS THAN ZERO


That franchise has been on his shoulders for over a decade. Curtis Painter? Please. He can't even move the ball in preseason against vanilla defenses.
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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Probably one of the worst teams in drafting for the last few years. I can't remember the last player they got through the draft that has been fairly good. Enough to warrant some accolades. Antoine Bethea?
Before that they had an amazing stretch of 1st round picks.

1996 19 Marvin Harrison WR Syracuse
1997 19 Tarik Glenn OT California
1998 1 Peyton Manning QB Tennessee (Polian First Pick)
1999 4 Edgerrin James RB Miami (FL)
2000 28 Rob Morris LB Brigham Young
2001 30 Reggie Wayne WR Miami (FL)
2002 11 Dwight Freeney DE Syracuse
2003 24 Dallas Clark TE Iowa
2004 — — No Pick — — [17]
2005 29 Marlin Jackson CB Michigan
2006 30 Joseph Addai RB Louisiana State
2007 32 Anthony Gonzalez WR Ohio State
2008 — — No Pick — — [18]
2009 27 Donald Brown RB Connecticut
2010 31 Jerry Hughes DE Texas Christian
2011 22 Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...nd_draft_picks
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Before that they had an amazing stretch of 1st round picks.

1996 19 Marvin Harrison WR Syracuse
1997 19 Tarik Glenn OT California
1998 1 Peyton Manning QB Tennessee (Polian First Pick)
1999 4 Edgerrin James RB Miami (FL)
2000 28 Rob Morris LB Brigham Young
2001 30 Reggie Wayne WR Miami (FL)
2002 11 Dwight Freeney DE Syracuse
2003 24 Dallas Clark TE Iowa
2004 No Pick [17]
2005 29 Marlin Jackson CB Michigan
2006 30 Joseph Addai RB Louisiana State
2007 32 Anthony Gonzalez WR Ohio State
2008 No Pick [18]
2009 27 Donald Brown RB Connecticut
2010 31 Jerry Hughes DE Texas Christian
2011 22 Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...nd_draft_picks
So you have to go back to 2003 to get the last great 1st round pick. Castonzo is a rookie, so who knows yet. Hughes barely saw the field last year, but it's too early to say. Brown has been awful. I believe the 2008 first rounder was the one they traded for Tony Ugoh? Awful...no longer on the team. Is he even on any team? Gonzalez has been alright when healthy, but that has been extremely rare...Addai is solid. Not great, but solid. Marlin Jackson was alright when healthy, but that seemed to be rare and he's no longer on the team.

And that's not even counting the other picks who never did anything. For every Austin Collie or Antoine Bethea they find in the mid-late rounds, they waste 2nds and 3rds on Fili Moala's (0 sacks in 16 starts last year,) or Quinn Pitcocks (retiring early.)
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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It's about time a Colts fan set you guys straight.

Ha, who am I kidding. The Colts would win 4 games max without Manning. Zero if the team stuck with Painter the whole year. Since it is hard to have an intimate knowledge of a team you don't live and breathe, let me walk you through the roster, the coaching staff, Bill Polian's drafts since 2006, etc.

OL - Absolutely terrible starting in 2008. When Tarik Glenn retired Bill Polian had no idea what to do and never did figure it out. His son Chris is GM now and the OL looks like it has some promise with new starters but we haven't seen them play with Manning yet.

RB - It doesn't matter. With this OL no RB is going to get to 1000 yards. Why do you think Manning threw almost 700 times last year?

TE - Clark is a good receiver but without Manning his value diminishes substantially. No one else on the roster at TE is worth anything w/out Manning.

WR - Wayne is a good player but I doubt he'd have developed without Manning (and without Harrison taking attention away from him). He would still produce. Garcon doesn't have a great chemistry with Manning so I'm not sure much would change. Collie, Gonzalez, etc, forget it. If the Colts got a competent backup, Wayne or Garcon might approach 1000 yards.

DL - Good pass-rushing DEs that don't try to play the run much. DT corps that looks better this year but is unproven.

LBs - Brackett is not that good and everyone else is a nobody. Small and easily pushed around. Not even that good in coverage anymore.

DBs - Bethea is great but can't make up for everyone else's mistakes. He has too many assignments. We have one, maybe two starting-material CBs and Powers gets hurt all the time.

Coaching - I'm not sure how much press this gets but the Colts have an embarrassing coaching staff. Caldwell is in over his head every game. No adjustments, no time management skills. DC Larry Coyer is old and has no idea how to use his pass rushers. Calls badly-timed LB blitzes using the smallest MLB in the league. And has the CBs play 10 yards off on 3rd and 4. Manning is basically the OC. OL coach is a former TE and this is his first-ever OL coaching gig. The QB and WR coaches switched jobs last year (WTF?).

Drafting - From 2007 - 2010, Bill Polian made 4 good picks out of 34. Jerraud Powers (CB, 3rd round, 2009), Austin Collie (WR, 4th rd, 2009), Pat McAfee (K/P, 7th rd, 2009), and Pierre Garcon (6th rd, 2008). The rest are unproven, injured too often, busts, went to other teams, or just never amounted to anything. I am just glad he's not running the team anymore.

The offense with a decent backup QB like Kitna or Garcia would be able to score here and there. The problem is the defense, which is badly coached and lacking in talent, would never give the offense enough opportunities to win games. With Manning I think this is a 10+ win team. If I am honest though I think they would be lucky to win 3 without him.

That is bad coaching and bad roster management. And meanwhile our freaking weird owner is too stuck in his haze of stoned tweeting to notice his team has been run into the ground. It is just stupid how much this team relies on Manning to succeed.
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Here's a breakdown of Polians drafting from 07 - 10 that I wrote on another forum.

Quote:
07
Gonzalez - known slow healer, hurt too much to make a difference
Ugoh - "Nogoh", gave up a 1st and 3rd for him
D Hughes - is he still in the NFL?
Pitcock - "Quitcock"
Session - a good 4th rounder now playing against us for the Jags twice a year
Condren, Hall, Coe, Dawson - nobodies

08
Pollak - bust
Wheeler - can't keep his job
Tamme - decent fill-in for Clark when he's hurt
Howard - is he still in the NFL?
Santi - is he still in the NFL?
Justice - is he still in the NFL?
Hart - OK 6th round pick, cut and retired
Garcon - good 6th round pick, will he take the next step?
Richard - will probably not make it through camp

09
Brown - bust so far, will he make it through camp?
Moala - we'll see this year if he was worth a 2nd rounder
Powers - excellent 3rd rounder, hurt a lot
Collie - excellent 4th rounder if he can stay on the field
Taylor - didn't make it through his first camp
Painter - worst backup QB in the NFL, didn't need to be drafted to get him
McAfee - good pick in the 7th
Thomas - cut this year in camp

10
Hughes - disappointing 1st season, didn't play much and didn't do anything on special teams
Angerer - hard to tell, I think he would've been there in the 3rd or later
Thomas - injured in college, injured now, he'll never do anything
McClendon - too soon to know.
Eldridge - hurt all the time, hasn't made an impact when on the field.
Mathews - too soon to know.
Conner - too soon to know.
Fisher - is he still in the NFL?

34 picks from 07 - 10 and the four best picks are a good-but-often-injured CB, a WR with potential that drops passes, a concussion-prone slot WR, and a punter.

THAT is the reason the Colts were so active in free agency. Polian was at one time a great drafter. But he hasn't had a good draft since 06. For a team that builds through the draft, that is bad news. It's incredible the team hasn't missed the playoffs yet.
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Old 08-23-2011, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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2-14 say hello to Andrew Luck( ok Justin Blackmon whatever). Reggie Wayne was not the same player last year and i can't see someone stepping in and elevating the play of players like Pierre Garcon or Austin Collie. In turn the defense would be on the field a lot more and i don't think Frathis would be able to handle the extra snaps. I would never want another person leading the colts till Manning retires but it would be onteresting to see if someone like Favre was brought in just to show how much Manning puts this team on his back.
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Old 08-23-2011, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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This discussion further highlights why Manning has won more MVPs than any other player, even when he hasn't been the "best" QB statistically. With him the Colts are a SB contender. Without him they are a pile of dogshit.

Which is a really stupid way to build a team and why I laugh when people, especially non-Colts fans, talk about how great Bill Polian is.
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Old 08-23-2011, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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5 years ago, perhaps they could have been a mediocre 5-8 win team without Manning, but the talent has really been whittled down. Now they'd most definitely be one of the worst teams in the AFC.
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Old 08-23-2011, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killxswitch View Post
This discussion further highlights why Manning has won more MVPs than any other player, even when he hasn't been the "best" QB statistically. With him the Colts are a SB contender. Without him they are a pile of dogshit.

Which is a really stupid way to build a team and why I laugh when people, especially non-Colts fans, talk about how great Bill Polian is.
This, this, and more of this.

I cringe whenever I hear the puppets on ESPN talk about Bill Polian's prowess at working the draft. Was he a great talent evaluator at one time? Sure. But his track record the past few years speaks for itself. The Colts have experienced a decline in talent at every position except quarterback recently. The fact that they've remained a playoff mainstay despite Polian's unpublicized ineptitude is a testament to Peyton Manning's all-time greatness.

With regards to the topic, this team as currently constructed would struggle to win even a pair of games without No. 18 running the show. I think they would probably steal one somewhere along the line. Maybe even two. But it honestly wouldn't shock me if they went winless either. That roster would definitely have historically awful potential, especially if a skill player like Clark or Wayne went down to injury as well.
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