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Old 01-07-2012, 09:43 AM    (permalink
holt_bruce81
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Originally Posted by Brown Leader View Post
I'd say Tannehill is the bigger project but has slightly more upside. He's got the bigger arm and better speed outside the pocket. But....I actually think Osweiler has better mobility inside the pocket, with good pocket awareness, and is more elusive, even at 6'8, than Tannehill, which is really impressive.
See I'm the other way, I think Osweiler's upside is bigger than my weener.
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Old 01-07-2012, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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I know Osweiler received a b-ball scholarship out of HS, so despite the height he is coordinated and can move a little.

But does anyone see any drawbacks for Osweiler because of his height??
Or has the skepticism been in drafting extremely tall QBs the concerns about their athleticism(ability to move outside the pocket)??

I'm always stunned when some players are drafted almost exclusively because of their measurables and potential upside.

I know it happened to Mike Vick, but it's still a surprise when you see it go down on draft day.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Tannehill and Osweiler basically have the same amount of college starting experience.

Who has more upside?

Not only is Tannehill better now, he has more upside.
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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See I'm the other way, I think Osweiler's upside is bigger than my weener.
Are you saying Osweiler has very little upside?
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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Tannehill and Osweiler basically have the same amount of college starting experience.

Who has more upside?
It's close, but I'm going Osweiler. There's things he can do right now that are better than Tannehill too, although it's fairly close all around. Ultimately, I feel like Osweiler declaring drives Tannehill's value down a bit, as GM's will know they can take Osweiler lower and get a similar prospect. I can see someone passing on Tannehill in the middle of the first knowing that they can just sit and get Osweiler a round later.

Not sure where the hate for Osweiler comes from either. Maybe it's because I only saw him on fairly good days, but I'm not seeing him as a pure one read lock on guy. I've seen him go through progressions. I think he reads and recognizes coverages slightly better at this stage too, which makes sense given that he's played quarterback his entire collegian career.
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Tannehill and Osweiler basically have the same amount of college starting experience.

Who has more upside?
Gonna go with Osweiler. Nearly every statistical comparison, he edges out Tannehill...then he's also younger, and has a bigger build.

And lets stop with this "he's gonna be a project" stuff. Any QB that declares for the draft knows he has a payday coming, and then attends every QB camp imaginable between now and their pro-day.

This isn't 10 years ago when you had to sit a QB 2-3 years before turning over the reigns. You're not "throwing them to the wolves" by starting them as a rookie. These young men are professionals who have been trained to be under center before they ever take a snap in the NFL.
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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It's close, but I'm going Osweiler. There's things he can do right now that are better than Tannehill too, although it's fairly close all around. Ultimately, I feel like Osweiler declaring drives Tannehill's value down a bit, as GM's will know they can take Osweiler lower and get a similar prospect. I can see someone passing on Tannehill in the middle of the first knowing that they can just sit and get Osweiler a round later.

Not sure where the hate for Osweiler comes from either. Maybe it's because I only saw him on fairly good days, but I'm not seeing him as a pure one read lock on guy. I've seen him go through progressions. I think he reads and recognizes coverages slightly better at this stage too, which makes sense given that he's played quarterback his entire collegian career.
I think the negative, at least for me, is he hasnt a lot of starts and add to that he'll have to sit for a couple of years. Not saying the guy doesnt have some upside but can you afford a high pick on that.
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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I think the negative, at least for me, is he hasnt a lot of starts and add to that he'll have to sit for a couple of years. Not saying the guy doesnt have some upside but can you afford a high pick on that.
Ideally, you put him in a situation to sit behind a decent quarterback for at least a year. Looking at possible landing spots, Washington, Miami, Buffalo, or Seattle in the second round could be decent landing spots, with Miami and Buffalo being the two best situations for both parties involved. The Eagles could make some sense as well...and they even have an extra second round pick to make that happen and still come away with someone who could help right away.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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I would say come on down to Oakland but...we don't have any picks...so there goes that.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Do the people who think Tannehill's arm is better have eyes?

Osweiler needs a lot of work but he has as much upside as anyone in this draft. The swing passes were part of his offense. My biggest problem with him is a lack of awareness when he throws the ball - you can call it "locking in" but it's a little more than that. It's almost like he doesn't have good peripheral vision, or maybe he just doesn't care. Idk. The draft process will be big for him. Could go anywhere from late first to 6th depending on how he does

Go watch his game against USC if you think he has anything in common with Gabbert
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SchizophrenicBatman View Post
Do the people who think Tannehill's arm is better have eyes?

Osweiler needs a lot of work but he has as much upside as anyone in this draft. The swing passes were part of his offense. My biggest problem with him is a lack of awareness when he throws the ball - you can call it "locking in" but it's a little more than that. It's almost like he doesn't have good peripheral vision, or maybe he just doesn't care. Idk. The draft process will be big for him. Could go anywhere from late first to 6th depending on how he does

Go watch his game against USC if you think he has anything in common with Gabbert
Which means what exactly?
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Anyone comparing Osweiler to Ryan Tannehill should probably reconsider; Osweiler does not deserve to go in the first two or three rounds of the draft. Very mentally raw and at this point not one of the top five or six quarterbacks in the draft. Osweiler seems to be too tall for his own good and has a very awkward style of scrambling.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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Anyone comparing Osweiler to Ryan Tannehill should probably reconsider; Osweiler does not deserve to go in the first two or three rounds of the draft. Very mentally raw and at this point not one of the top five or six quarterbacks in the draft. Osweiler seems to be too tall for his own good and has a very awkward style of scrambling.
Would you really take Foles or Cousins over him? I like Cousins for what he is, but at best he ends up being a Ryan Fitzpatrick type player...and he isn't even assured of that. Foles is a statistical illusion. I don't see the skills that translate to playing quarterback in the NFL there. His accuracy isn't as good as his completion percentage says it is and his arm isn't anything special either.

Osweiler has problems and is very raw, I do agree there. I would try to coach him out of trying to run entirely if I could, as he seems to think that he can run far better than he actually is able to(although he moves very well for a player of his stature), but there's far more to like physically over the rest of the crop. He's taller than the usual guys you look for, but taking the standard courtesy inch off, he's only really an extra inch or two taller than ideal. That would be a concerned if he was awkward and uncoordinated, but I fail to see how it's anything more than an aesthetic issue with his movement skills and coordination.

The only thing I'm really concerned about besides the mental side of it and general lack of refinement is his release. It's a little bit lower than you would prefer, but at 6'7/6'8, he can probably be one of those guys that can get away with it. Still, he could get a lot more zip on the ball and probably increase his accuracy with a more conventional windup/release.

I don't know. It seems like I'm taking a more bullish stance on Osweiler than the majority of people are, but I still feel pretty good about it. Not a perfect prospect or even a legitimate first round type of guy, but after Luck and Griffin(and maybe Tannehill), I feel pretty good about him vs. what else is available. His flaws are very correctable. He's coming off his first year of starting and is still just 21 years old. He needed some more time in the oven for sure, but his physical skills have the potential to make him a far better player down the road than the rest of the guys he's competing against positionally.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Anyone comparing Osweiler to Ryan Tannehill should probably reconsider; Osweiler does not deserve to go in the first two or three rounds of the draft. Very mentally raw and at this point not one of the top five or six quarterbacks in the draft. Osweiler seems to be too tall for his own good and has a very awkward style of scrambling.
I agree! Osweiler is behind Andrew Luck, RG3, Nick Foles, Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins, Case Keenum, Brandon Weedan and Ryan Tannehill in my quarterback rankings.
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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Comparing Brock with Tannehill is fair in my opinion. They both took over about mid-way through the 2010 season as the starting QBs. Both are athletic...Brock with a b-ball background and Tannehill spending 2 1/2 years as a very good WR. The lack of experience/being raw QBs is obvious. They both have all the tools needed to succeed. They pass the eyeball test - can make all the throws etc.

I think their two main differences are the fact Osweiler is huge - basically has a Power Forwards body playing QB. The automatic comparison is to Dan McGuire who was 6'8" as well, but watching Brock play he is very fluid in his movements and coordinated...not awkward at all and that Brock played in a spread offense while Tannehill's was more Pro-style. Tannehill also had the benefit of learning under a former NFL head coach in Mike Sherman.

I would argue that Brock had the better season than Tannehill (and I am/was the biggest Tannehill fan at the beginning of the season). They both play in conferences not known for playing defense so that can't really favor one over the other.I could see Brock as a mid second rounder./early third rounder Tannehill will probably go in the mid-late first.

My QB Rankings would be:
1. Luck
2. Griffin III
3. Tannehill
4. Osweiler
5. Cousins
6. Foles
7. Wilson
8. Weeden
9. Harnish
10. Kellen Moore

Also an interesting note is that the Redskins coaching staff will be coaching the Senior Bowl. I would not be surprised of Shanahan falls in love w/ Tannehill (kind of like the Bengals with Dalton) and ends up drafting him. Both Luck and Griffin will be gone when the Redskins are up to draft and after last year's draft with all the QB craziness it cannot be discounted that Tannehill could go as high as number 6.
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Anyone comparing Osweiler to Ryan Tannehill should probably reconsider; Osweiler does not deserve to go in the first two or three rounds of the draft. Very mentally raw and at this point not one of the top five or six quarterbacks in the draft. Osweiler seems to be too tall for his own good and has a very awkward style of scrambling.

Yes. I agree that Osweiler has a lot to like as a developmental guy, but Tannehill is so much more natural in just about every way. Tannehill's a year + project you take in the first. Osweiler's one you take in the 2nd, earliest, and you prefer to wait for Round 3.
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Rough quarterback rankings:

1. Andrew Luck, Stanford*

2. Robert Griffin, Baylor*

3. Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M

4. Nick Foles, Arizona

5. Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma St.

6. Kirk Cousins, Michigan St.

7. Brock Osweiler, Arizona St.*

8. Kellen Moore, Boise St.

9. Russell Wilson, Wisconsin

10. Case Keenum, Houston
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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Idk I like Osweiler more than Foles and Cousins. I actually like him better than Tannehill but I can see how he would be rated higher.
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:47 PM    (permalink
niel89
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The guy isn't that great but he has good tools and is a good addition to this class. I can see maybe a 2nd or 3rd after workouts. A couple years to develop and he could be a player.
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Old 01-07-2012, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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Does Osweiler have problems taking snaps under center, because of his height??
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Old 01-07-2012, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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I like Brock a lot as a prospect. I get the vibe that he's a complete douche, but that's just ASU in general. He's big, athletic, and could be a really great player down the road. Just needs a great coach to work with him for a year or two.

Not really sure how I'd grade him. If I'm Seattle and have no shot at Luck/Griffin, I take a serious look at this guy as he might not be there when they pick in the 2nd Round and they should be desperate enough to take a shot at a guy like this at this point.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:20 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Rough quarterback rankings:

1. Andrew Luck, Stanford*
2. Robert Griffin, Baylor*
3. Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M
4. Nick Foles, Arizona
5. Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma St.
6. Kirk Cousins, Michigan St.
7. Brock Osweiler, Arizona St.*
8. Kellen Moore, Boise St.
9. Russell Wilson, Wisconsin
10. Case Keenum, Houston
Wow...and laughs.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:59 AM    (permalink
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Just watched all his throws against Boise State, and he looked terrible. Sure, he can throw a rope. And I'll give him this, he moves really smoothly for being such a big guy. But he seems to have a "If my guy is covered... I'll just throw it harder" mentality. His accuracy was all over the place. He locked onto his receivers, the defense was tipping tons of balls, dropped a few interceptions, and generally looked like they were too much for Osweiler to handle. He really did not look good at all, and this game is my first impression of him, so... He's got some ground to make up with me. Watching that game, I've honestly got no idea why he decided to go pro. Didn't look like a guy I'd draft. Decision-making and accuracy really looked bad to me.

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Old 01-08-2012, 05:19 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Calubflower View Post
Just watched all his throws against Boise State, and he looked terrible. Sure, he can throw a rope. And I'll give him this, he moves really smoothly for being such a big guy. But he seems to have a "If my guy is covered... I'll just throw it harder" mentality. His accuracy was all over the place. He locked onto his receivers, the defense was tipping tons of balls, dropped a few interceptions, and generally looked like they were too much for Osweiler to handle. He really did not look good at all, and this game is my first impression of him, so... He's got some ground to make up with me. Watching that game, I've honestly got no idea why he decided to go pro. Didn't look like a guy I'd draft. Decision-making and accuracy really looked bad to me.
I watched this game too and i was horified by what i saw. By the end i couldnt watch it because it was so bad. And its not even like Boise Stare are a good defense, i cant even begin to imagine what he would look like against Alabama for LSU.

The other tape i've seen has been average at best. I thinks hes a cerrtain bust if he goes as high as people think he will.
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