2012 Chiefs Draft Discussion - Page 11

TheMatriculator · 12-12-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by villagewarrior

This just can't possibly be correct.

Consider the source.

vidae · 12-12-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by villagewarrior

This just can't possibly be correct.

It isn't. No one is more mentally inept than Barry Richardson, who is AVERAGING 2 penalties a game. Letting Gaither go was probably a mistake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMatriculator

Consider the source.

Absolutely.

TonyGfortheTD · 12-16-2011, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

1. QB
2. RT
3. RB
4. ILB
5. 5tech

I honestly feel that if we don't take a QB in the first we're screwed for the future.

I would package whatever we have to in order to make sure we can move up to secure one of the "top 3" QBs.. Luck, Barkley or RG3. I don't care what we spend. It's time to buck this trend the Chiefs are so set on with plugging in journeyman QBs.

Replace ILB with TE, and I'd agree with the list. I like Moeaki, but they just can't afford to not have a plan be if....when he gets injured again.

Sark · 12-18-2011, 05:24 PM

I dont see how anyone can say we have bigger needs than RT and NT. Richardson is easily one of the 3worst starting RT in football and Gregg is a non factor. I would put our need as:
1 RT
2 NT
3 ILB
4 TE
5 QB

I would have no problem with them drafting a QB in the 1st but we do have some glaring holes other places.

vidae · 12-18-2011, 06:50 PM

RT is the second biggest need we have, you're right, and I'd put NT third, but we have no bigger need right now than a QB of the future. I'd be 100% fine with Orton starting next year while the rookie learns the ropes, but we HAVE to address QB.

Also, welcome to the DC boards and the Chiefs forum in particular. It's always great to have more KC fans around here!

Splat · 12-18-2011, 07:16 PM

QB is still the biggest need but RT is a close second.

Sark · 12-18-2011, 08:39 PM

Thanks for the warm welcome. Long time lurker here. Maybe I am missing some information but I think there is absolutely zero chance Orton signs with the Chiefs next year. He will definitely be a starter somewhere next year. No reason for him to stick around and compete for the Chiefs job.

vidae · 12-18-2011, 09:41 PM

I don't even see this as a competition.. if Orton plays well the next two weeks, the job should be his, in the short term anyway.

Sark · 12-18-2011, 10:50 PM

It really doesn't matter if you and I think it's a competition, Pioli isn't going to hand over the job to Orton after 3 weeks and cut Cassel. It's just not realistic.

vidae · 12-18-2011, 11:32 PM

I think a lot of people are reaching with this whole "Pioli is tied to Cassel" thing. Cassel has made the bulk of his money already and he just isn't good. Pioli should want to do what is best for the franchise, and that is signing Orton shortish-term and drafting an eventual franchise QB replacement in this years draft.

It's the smart thing to do and it's the thing he SHOULD do.

Sark · 12-19-2011, 01:09 AM

The problem is, Orton and Cassel are the same player. Their career stats are almost the same. Orton isn't signing a contract with Cassel on the roster and Cassel isn't getting released. I am sick of watching Matt Cassel play QB also, but at this point he is a stop gap just like Orton would be. They have a LOT more invested in Cassel than Orton. You might be right that they should, but you and I both know they won't.

Actually was just looking at Cassel's career stats and they are pretty much better across the board.

KCStud · 12-20-2011, 02:57 AM

I think Orton will be kept if he keeps playing well. He made better reads than Cassel has in over a year.

Having said that, I know you guys don't believe this, but I really do believe that Pioli has a lot of faith in Stanzi.

Having said that, I hope this team signs a NT like Solai from the Phins and drafts a RT in the first or second round.

Gotta get a RB too. Just have to. Battle is overrated and Jones will be gone.

nepg · 12-20-2011, 08:29 AM

The Chiefs have a lot of great options in this draft. RT, RB, ILB, DeCastro, and TE are all areas they will consider easily depending on what is available.

vidae · 12-20-2011, 09:39 AM

QB
RT
NT

That is the order of what we should be drafting. I hope it plays out like that.

KCStud · 12-20-2011, 09:39 PM

You know, if we don't get a chance to draft a QB than I would be on board with Dontari Poe.

This guy is 350 lbs of agile muscle who is extremely athletic. I getting this guy would be awesome.

If we don't draft a QB this year than I fully expect the focus of the draft in the early rounds would be on both lines.

vidae · 12-20-2011, 10:19 PM

Yeah boe and I have talked about Poe in the past. I wouldn't hate Reiff either, I just wouldn't love it. I'd love Poe / Richardson if no QB is available. Richardson + Charles would be hotsex.

KCStud · 12-21-2011, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

Yeah boe and I have talked about Poe in the past. I wouldn't hate Reiff either, I just wouldn't love it. I'd love Poe / Richardson if no QB is available. Richardson + Charles would be hotsex.

Yeah I would love Richardson too, but I think the lines absolutely have to be addressed early.

If we get a NT like Poe/Ta'mu and a RT like Wagner/Potter/Adcock it would HUGE for us.

Building the OL this year is key because we wouldn't have to have Richardson if the OL is making holes.

King Carls 5 Year Plan · 01-08-2012, 03:05 PM

ok, i assume that all of us think that RT is still a HUGE need for the Chiefs. looking through some of the comments in the mocks, i have noticed that OT isn't a popular 1st rd pick among most Chiefs fans. i'm not quite understanding it. after the top 3 OTs are off the board, it is a HUGE drop in talent to the next group and i don't know how many of those would still be there at the Chiefs 2nd round pick. anything after the 2nd round is a complete crap shoot and would be difficult to say that a 3rd or later pick HAS to beat Richardson for the job. and isn't that the idea, finding a replacement for Richardson? i get that there are multiple spots that could use an upgrade, QB, NT and ILB. i just think that a RT makes this team much better much faster than any of those other options (i'm really not seeing the Chiefs taking a QB in the 1st. with Cassel and Orton as possibilties, a win now attitude, and the idea of trading alot for a QB, i just don't see Pioli pulling the trigger). adding a NT (Poe most likely) would be awesome. it's a position of need, but this was the #11th ranked defense w/o him and we saw what this defense was capable of doing this year. how many games were we in because the defense kept us in it, but we were just unable to score enough (thats an understatement) to win the game.

i know that stats aren't everything and i would never imply that they are the be all end all of any discussion. however, they are a good tool to help look at things from a different perspective. just a few offensive statistics from our '11 Chiefs Offense: Total Yards - 27th, Passing Yards - 25th, Rushing Yards - 15th (that stat is kinda misleading. we finished with the 5th highest rushing attempts giving us a 3.9 YPC good for 28th), 3rd % - 19th, Scoring - 31st, Total 1st Downs - 26th. these are especially bad numbers when you think that the Chiefs still had a chance to win the division. we're talking about a minimal upgrade in these numbers could lead to a multiple game lead for this division. IMO, i think a new RT is the best way of improving on all of these offensive numbers (short of a new QB) and give this team the most to improvement from 1 selection.

your thoughts?

chief_fan88 · 01-08-2012, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Carls 5 Year Plan

ok, i assume that all of us think that RT is still a HUGE need for the Chiefs. looking through some of the comments in the mocks, i have noticed that OT isn't a popular 1st rd pick among most Chiefs fans. i'm not quite understanding it. after the top 3 OTs are off the board, it is a HUGE drop in talent to the next group and i don't know how many of those would still be there at the Chiefs 2nd round pick. anything after the 2nd round is a complete crap shoot and would be difficult to say that a 3rd or later pick HAS to beat Richardson for the job. and isn't that the idea, finding a replacement for Richardson? i get that there are multiple spots that could use an upgrade, QB, NT and ILB. i just think that a RT makes this team much better much faster than any of those other options (i'm really not seeing the Chiefs taking a QB in the 1st. with Cassel and Orton as possibilties, a win now attitude, and the idea of trading alot for a QB, i just don't see Pioli pulling the trigger). adding a NT (Poe most likely) would be awesome. it's a position of need, but this was the #11th ranked defense w/o him and we saw what this defense was capable of doing this year. how many games were we in because the defense kept us in it, but we were just unable to score enough (thats an understatement) to win the game.

i know that stats aren't everything and i would never imply that they are the be all end all of any discussion. however, they are a good tool to help look at things from a different perspective. just a few offensive statistics from our '11 Chiefs Offense: Total Yards - 27th, Passing Yards - 25th, Rushing Yards - 15th (that stat is kinda misleading. we finished with the 5th highest rushing attempts giving us a 3.9 YPC good for 28th), 3rd % - 19th, Scoring - 31st, Total 1st Downs - 26th. these are especially bad numbers when you think that the Chiefs still had a chance to win the division. we're talking about a minimal upgrade in these numbers could lead to a multiple game lead for this division. IMO, i think a new RT is the best way of improving on all of these offensive numbers (short of a new QB) and give this team the most to improvement from 1 selection.

your thoughts?

I completely agree with you, I would not be to happy if we took Richardson in the 1st round, not because I don't like him, but how many RB's have the Chiefs had that weren't 1st round picks but did fine I think we all know its more about the O-line first hell remember back when Blaylock would run behind that awesome line and look like one of the best in the NFL, then you have LJ who was really good for how many seasons and then just dissappeared, what players that were taken after him that are still playing and having impact on teams, I just DO NOT like the idea of a RB in the first.

The way I see our needs is QB, RT, NT, LG, ILB, TE, RB, S. Now I don't see Pioli going for one of the top QB's so if we are looking at Reiff, Martin, Decastro, and Poe then I say go with one of them. I think a lot of the RB problems will also be resolved with the fact that TJ will no longer be here next year, he has been SO bad this year that I think seeing hime more combined with no JC has made our running game look worse than it really is. With all that said we do still very obviously need a better option at backup RB, I just want it to be a FA or later in the draft.

nepg · 01-09-2012, 09:52 AM

Yes, a RT would be the most significant way to improve the team and if they don't get one in the first two rounds, they almost shouldn't even bother with it at all in this draft because they have to get a guy that can come in and start right away.

I think RT should be the first round pick, but you really can't ignore what Trent Richardson could bring to a team that likes to run the ball. This is a team that almost had two guys run for over 1,000 yards in 2010. A quality RB doesn't go to waste for the Chiefs, and RB is among the Top 4 needs for the 2012 Off-Season along with RT, ILB, and TE.

I think the ideal first three rounds are:
1. Reiff/Martin/Adams
2. Hightower
3. Fleener

Then you start looking at RBs, S depth, WR depth, an OG/C or two, and project DLs.

TheMatriculator · 01-09-2012, 06:47 PM

Upgrading RT should be a major priority but job one is finding a RB who can carry the ball 20 times per game and run between the tackles. A RB who can provide a legitimate threat in the red zone (Thomas Jones - 0 TD, Jackie Battle - 0 TD, Dexter McCluster - 1 TD, Le'Ron McClain 1 TD, well sort of). These guys aren't going to get any better. TJ is out of gas and Battle faded badly at the end of the season, really he only had that one good game against Indy and their run defense was awful.

The good news is that we are looking for a RT and not an LT. Those guys will still be available in the 2nd or 3rd round.

I supect that Pioli will look for a RB in free agency or maybe an RT. That would leave the Chiefs free to draft a NT or ILB that could be the missing piece in our run defense. Sixth overall against the pass (without Eric Berry)and 26th against the run. This defense is one or two players away from being elite.

vidae · 01-10-2012, 01:25 AM

I've been thinking about it a lot lately and with a good to very good NT Belcher would make a lot more plays.

That isn't to say that an upgrade isn't needed opposite DJ, just a thought.

Also, outside of the most obvious need (QB), RT is the biggest need but outside the top two RT prospects (imo it's Matt Kalil and Reiff) the talent drops off a lot. I'd just grab a RT in the second or third who is good enough to plug in immediately. It doesn't get much worse than Richardson at this point but the rest of the line is solid.

Hermstheman83 · 01-10-2012, 08:17 AM

The other argument for Trent Richardson is that when we did have a legit HB in Charles, Richardson looked above average. Drafting an elite(some say RunDMC/AP elite) running back would make our offensive line look that much better, provide a hedge against JC getting injured again and be able to move the ball in the red zone(let's face it, if we had an elite RB in the green bay game, it would have been over by halftime.) It's kinda one of those situations where is the RB too talented to pass up?

Other than that, I agree with everyone's setiments about the QB, we definately need one, but No way Pioli moves up to grab RGIII. and we can grab a second round/third round RT, That's one thing Pioli has been pretty consistent on. Asamoah in the third and Hudson in the second(pretty sure he didn't draft too many first round linemen either)

Hermstheman83 · 01-10-2012, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMatriculator

Upgrading RT should be a major priority but job one is finding a RB who can carry the ball 20 times per game and run between the tackles. A RB who can provide a legitimate threat in the red zone (Thomas Jones - 0 TD, Jackie Battle - 0 TD, Dexter McCluster - 1 TD, Le'Ron McClain 1 TD, well sort of). These guys aren't going to get any better. TJ is out of gas and Battle faded badly at the end of the season, really he only had that one good game against Indy and their run defense was awful.

The good news is that we are looking for a RT and not an LT. Those guys will still be available in the 2nd or 3rd round.

I supect that Pioli will look for a RB in free agency or maybe an RT. That would leave the Chiefs free to draft a NT or ILB that could be the missing piece in our run defense. Sixth overall against the pass (without Eric Berry)and 26th against the run. This defense is one or two players away from being elite.

I think our biggest priority on Defense is a Nose Tackle. I don't know how anyone else feels about Dorsey and Tjack, I thought the stats showed they were amazing at plugging the run and terrible in pass rushing situations. That being said, they aren't a first round need by any means. I think the one thing keeping our defense from being elite is an awesome nose tackle, so I would also be ok if we grabbed Powe in the first round.

TheMatriculator · 01-10-2012, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermstheman83

I think our biggest priority on Defense is a Nose Tackle. I don't know how anyone else feels about Dorsey and Tjack, I thought the stats showed they were amazing at plugging the run and terrible in pass rushing situations. That being said, they aren't a first round need by any means. I think the one thing keeping our defense from being elite is an awesome nose tackle, so I would also be ok if we grabbed Powe in the first round.

I'd agree with you on that. Too many times we saw other teams seal off the NT and create a running lane up the middle. To be really effective in the 3-4 we need someone that can overpower the guard/center block and blow up that kind of play. I'm not a big Belcher fan but Vidae is probably right that "with a good to very good NT Belcher would make a lot more plays."