2012 Chiefs Draft Discussion - Page 4

vidae · 10-14-2011, 01:50 PM

So the two games we played against good teams (Lions at 5-0, Bills at 4-1), where we got blown out, don't count. But the three we played against struggling (Chargers) and bad (Vikings/Colts) absolutely count?

You're ridiculous with this **** now.

nepg · 10-14-2011, 08:25 PM

Oh yeah. The Chargers sure are struggling at 4-1 in October with the #7 total offense, and the Vikings sure are bad with their #3 rushing offense. They'd lost 3 straight to good teams going into the Chiefs games by a combined 14 points. They are on the plus side of the point differential after drawing competition that wasn't on the top half of the NFL. The Vikings are a solid team that lack a passing attack.

The 480 total yards the Chiefs had in the first two games compared to the 1036 (against better defenses) they've put up since then has zero effect on the way the defense played...

I don't get the point in trying to act like this isn't a completely different team than the one we saw in the first two weeks. They made major adjustments, and it was clear that they just weren't ready to play the first two weeks.

The defense is what we've seen the last three weeks, and they're getting better. They're super young at important positions, and not having Berry is rough.

bored of education · 10-14-2011, 08:49 PM

The defense needs to get better via draft depth wise at 5 tech and a starting ILB, also secondary. None which have anyone worthy of a top 8 pick.

OT could be addressed.

a stud QB puts KC into elite status. What do the last 3-4 Super Bowls Opponents have in common more than anything else? An elite QB. Brees, Brady, Warner, Big Ben(kinda), A Rod, Eli (meh)

Splat · 10-14-2011, 09:03 PM

If the Chiefs miss out on a top QB I wouldn't be against taking a RT.

Not only has the RT position been a revolving door since John Tait left but with the rookie cap I think you can take a RT earlier now.

bored of education · 10-14-2011, 09:04 PM

nepg, please tell me what other position will set up the Chiefs logn term for success beyond a year or two? Cassel has 3 years left on his contract. He has not lived up to it and I have not seen enough progress to keep him for 3 years or more.

Why subject ourselves to mediocrity? You put an Andrew Luck type player on last years team we are damn near Super Bowl. Cassel is the reason the team **** the bed in most games. Not the defense. Not that fact the in the last 10 games(playoffs/preseason etc) the Chiefs lead the NFL in 3 and outs. Dont blame O-line, coaches or plays. QBs make plays, plays. bro.

vidae · 10-14-2011, 09:04 PM

If the top 4 are gone I'd be 100% fine with ILB (like Taze) or RT. Both positions need to be upgraded, though I'd give the nod to RT. Barry Richardson is just flat out awful.

Also, the Chargers ALWAYS struggle in September. Look at the teams they've beat: Vikings, Chiefs, Dolphins and the Broncos. Excuse me for a minute if I don't think the Chargers are legit.

nepg · 10-14-2011, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bored of education

nepg, please tell me what other position will set up the Chiefs logn term for success beyond a year or two? Cassel has 3 years left on his contract. He has not lived up to it and I have not seen enough progress to keep him for 3 years or more.

Why subject ourselves to mediocrity? You put an Andrew Luck type player on last years team we are damn near Super Bowl. Cassel is the reason the team **** the bed in most games. Not the defense. Not that fact the in the last 10 games(playoffs/preseason etc) the Chiefs lead the NFL in 3 and outs. Dont blame O-line, coaches or plays. QBs make plays, plays. bro.

They're not mediocre when they're fully healthy, and I see an opportunity with a very convenient BYE to get some new packages installed and make huge leaps within this season. I don't see them as mediocre right now even...they lost two games we expected them to win easily going into the off-season. Sucks, but it's whatever now. Unfortunately, they have injuriezz and little depthzzz. They really need to get deeper at WR, TE, and RB on offense. They need a backup G/T and a backup C/G. What's left for building this team is pretty easily accomplished on the offensive side of the ball (pending Baldwin, I think). I think if this offense was healthy, they'd be really ******* good. If they had depth to cope with injuries better, they'd still be very good on that side of the ball.

As far as draftable positions that make this team better, I like Belcher well-enough (I think we all do to a degree), but Burfict would be a massive upgrade and bring this defense to a whole other level. An investment at CB would be a great idea, as would TE. I do think you can upgrade over Richardson, I just think it's harder than you guys are making it out to be from the perspective of the GM and coaching staff. He's the weakest part of the Chiefs' OL, but that's saying a lot about the Chiefs' OL because he's a ton better than a lot of the RTs around the NFL. If you want to upgrade over Richardson, it almost has to be a first rounder because he still is a high-potential player with great physical and athletic tools.

The Chargers aren't struggling this September, though. I don't think they're that good, but this is the best they've been early in the season since Norv's been there.

vidae · 10-14-2011, 09:24 PM

4-1 doesn't mean they're not struggling. Rivers has been struggling massively so far this year and the only decent team they faced they lost by two scores.

TonyGfortheTD · 10-17-2011, 12:25 AM

Looking more and more like the Chiefs will be missing out on the top of the QB class in 2012. They will probably beat Oakland if they can actually stuff the run and it seems Denver is in fire sale mode. They will probably just end up mediocre and will pick right outside of the top 10.

My wishlist:
1. Morris Claiborne (If Carr leaves)
2. Trent Richardson (A backfield of Richardson and Charles would own)
3. Vontaze Burfict (Would be nice to see someone with a killer instinct in the middle of the D)
4. Riley Reiff (Barry Richardson sucks)

I'd be happy with any of those selections.

vidae · 10-17-2011, 01:27 AM

It all depends who declares. RG3 and Barkley could stay for their last years. So could Jones, I guess? Luck has already said he's coming out this year.

KCStud · 10-18-2011, 09:00 PM

Landry Jones is a joke. He's Matt Cassel with a better arm. In fact, Landry Jones=Matt Cassel from 2008. The system and talent is helping him succeed. And please don't bring up Bradford. Bradford was accurate all over the field.

I really hope Pioli builds up the OL and front 7. I can see Riley Reiff being the pick. We need a NT, ILB, RT and QB. Luck and Barkley will be gone, RG3 is going back to school as reported, ILB and NT don't have any real talents in the first round (please don't bring up Burfict).

Pioli wanted Bulaga and Haley fought to get Berry (thank God), but I think this year we get a strong OL to build with Albert, Hudson and Asamoah.

We may not get a QB this year, but when we do get a new QB, the offense and team in general will be built with talent so the new QB can succeed much like Big Ben's rookie season.

TheMatriculator · 10-19-2011, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCStud

Landry Jones is a joke. He's Matt Cassel with a better arm. In fact, Landry Jones=Matt Cassel from 2008. The system and talent is helping him succeed. And please don't bring up Bradford. Bradford was accurate all over the field.

I really hope Pioli builds up the OL and front 7. I can see Riley Reiff being the pick. We need a NT, ILB, RT and QB. Luck and Barkley will be gone, RG3 is going back to school as reported, ILB and NT don't have any real talents in the first round (please don't bring up Burfict).

Pioli wanted Bulaga and Haley fought to get Berry (thank God), but I think this year we get a strong OL to build with Albert, Hudson and Asamoah.

We may not get a QB this year, but when we do get a new QB, the offense and team in general will be built with talent so the new QB can succeed much like Big Ben's rookie season.

What gives you the idea that "Pioli wanted Bulaga?" The impression that I have is that while Todd may be "the face of the franchise," Scott makes the decisions off the field. If Scott wanted Bulaga, we would have Bulaga.

KCStud · 10-19-2011, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMatriculator

What gives you the idea that "Pioli wanted Bulaga?" The impression that I have is that while Todd may be "the face of the franchise," Scott makes the decisions off the field. If Scott wanted Bulaga, we would have Bulaga.

I'm assuming you missed the part where I said "Haley had to fight for Berry".
I think the only 1st round pick Pioli made was Jackson. I think the Baldwin pick has Todd Haley written all over it. Haley loves WR's and he's from Pitt. Makes complete sense.

Just because Pioli is the GM doesn't mean he makes all the picks. In fact, the only time Carl Peterson took over and forced a pick was when we drafted LJ in the first round.

vidae · 10-19-2011, 01:58 AM

How do you know RG3 is going back to school? How do you know Pioli wanted Bulaga? You didn't answer his question, all you said was "Haley fought for Berry".. how do you even know that? Where are you getting this stuff?

TheMatriculator · 10-19-2011, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCStud

I'm assuming you missed the part where I said "Haley had to fight for Berry".
I think the only 1st round pick Pioli made was Jackson. I think the Baldwin pick has Todd Haley written all over it. Haley loves WR's and he's from Pitt. Makes complete sense.

Just because Pioli is the GM doesn't mean he makes all the picks. In fact, the only time Carl Peterson took over and forced a pick was when we drafted LJ in the first round.

I didn't miss anything, but I think you are making assumptions without any knowledge of the situation. Why did Haley have to fight for Berry when as you said Pioli made the Jackson pick. If that's the case, it sounds like Pioli was interested in building a defense (as they did in New England when Pioli was there) and would have wanted Berry as much or more than Haley whose background is after all as an offensive coach. Your reasoning just doesn't make sense.

nepg · 10-19-2011, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCStud

I'm assuming you missed the part where I said "Haley had to fight for Berry".
I think the only 1st round pick Pioli made was Jackson. I think the Baldwin pick has Todd Haley written all over it. Haley loves WR's and he's from Pitt. Makes complete sense.

Just because Pioli is the GM doesn't mean he makes all the picks. In fact, the only time Carl Peterson took over and forced a pick was when we drafted LJ in the first round.

There's zero truth to that. Just ******** Nick Wright has been throwing out there in his attempts to trash Scott Pioli. He references Peter King, and we all remember quite well that Peter King went out on his own and said that Pioli would never draft a safety. He used a baseless argument and something cryptic Thomas Dmitroff said to make an absurdly assertive assumption. Completely false. Very Whitlock of Wright :\.

Pioli didn't want Bulaga. They were more than happy with O'Callaghan and Richardson that off-season. Anyone who actually watched the games knew the OT play was solid, and that the issues were with the interior of the OL (Waters had probably his worst year, revolving door guards, and Rudy Niswanger).

KCStud · 10-19-2011, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

There's zero truth to that. Just ******** Nick Wright has been throwing out there in his attempts to trash Scott Pioli. He references Peter King, and we all remember quite well that Peter King went out on his own and said that Pioli would never draft a safety. He used a baseless argument and something cryptic Thomas Dmitroff said to make an absurdly assertive assumption. Completely false. Very Whitlock of Wright :\.

Pioli didn't want Bulaga. They were more than happy with O'Callaghan and Richardson that off-season. Anyone who actually watched the games knew the OT play was solid, and that the issues were with the interior of the OL (Waters had probably his worst year, revolving door guards, and Rudy Niswanger).

Yes Nick Wright did say this along with Peter King. And Pioli is close with Ferentz. Pioli also looked extra hard at Bulaga. There's a reason why everybody thought OT would be our pick if it wasn't Berry.

On topic, I really would like to see Pioli build the lines if a QB can't be had. Line play makes all the difference.

vidae · 10-19-2011, 05:38 PM

There isn't a source you should trust less than Nick Wright. Not even Jason Whitlock. And Peter King isn't much better.. he doesn't know teams at a personnel level.

If Pioli wanted Bulaga he would have drafted him. Period.

KCStud · 10-19-2011, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

There isn't a source you should trust less than Nick Wright. Not even Jason Whitlock. And Peter King isn't much better.. he doesn't know teams at a personnel level.

If Pioli wanted Bulaga he would have drafted him. Period.

Nick Wright? The same guy who broke the Baldwin fight?

And I believe Pioli had Bulaga very high on his big board. I'm talking top 3.
Maybe at the end of the last draft meeting, Haley convinced him to put Berry ahead on the big board. I just don't see how people don't think Bulaga was very high on Pioli's list. Had extra meetings with him and reportedly followed him extremely close at the combine. OT was a need and we were looking at him by far more than any other prospect.