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Old 10-25-2011, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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How do you know that? We all hope for the best but he is still a questionmark.
I guess you have a fair point. I should have said that I think Powe is the long term answer at NT and until we see him on the field I don't get writing him off.

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IMO QB is a huge need. But I'm just not sure I see the Chiefs replacing Cassel. They had a chance in 09 with Freeman and Sanchez but elected to go with Tyson Jackson instead. IMO Cassel isn't a bad QB. He's just not one that's going to carry a team. Like I said, he's more Dave Krieg/Steve DeBerg than Aaron Rodgers/Tom Brady. Which is fine if you plan to be like the Ravens from the early 2000s. Me, I'd prefer to try to find and develop an upper echelon QB. But that's just me.
It isn't just you. It's every fan of every team. And Cassel has some glaring deficiencies that he just cannot overcome. He has happy feet, moves slowly in the pocket.. stares down his primary receiver.. can't seem to go to his second or even third read even when it's completely necessary..

Cassel is ok, he's not good, and his ceiling is where he's at right now. We won't have a 2000 Ravens defense, we just won't, so we're going to need to develop our own guy. Is it Stanzi? I doubt it. He went in the fifth for a reason. The only position on offense we're clearly lacking is at QB. If you add a super talented QB like Luck, Barkley or Landry Jones (and maybe RG3 or Ryan Tannehill) into this offense, it could EXPLODE, but it'll never be more than mediocre with Cassel at the helm. And that is all there is to it.
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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I guess you have a fair point. I should have said that I think Powe is the long term answer at NT and until we see him on the field I don't get writing him off.



It isn't just you. It's every fan of every team. And Cassel has some glaring deficiencies that he just cannot overcome. He has happy feet, moves slowly in the pocket.. stares down his primary receiver.. can't seem to go to his second or even third read even when it's completely necessary..

Cassel is ok, he's not good, and his ceiling is where he's at right now. We won't have a 2000 Ravens defense, we just won't, so we're going to need to develop our own guy. Is it Stanzi? I doubt it. He went in the fifth for a reason. The only position on offense we're clearly lacking is at QB. If you add a super talented QB like Luck, Barkley or Landry Jones (and maybe RG3 or Ryan Tannehill) into this offense, it could EXPLODE, but it'll never be more than mediocre with Cassel at the helm. And that is all there is to it.
Videa, I stand by you in the fact that this teams undoubted glaring need is first and foremost at QB, but Landry Jones? Ryan Tannehill? I will literally throw my computer out of my window if we draft them in the first round.

Ryan Tannehill couldn't lead a team if his life depended on it. He lost two games he had won and has no poise. Plus his numbers are extremely average for the college level. 15 TD's and 6 INT's is below average in college at this point compared to the rest.

And Landry Jones is a FRAUD! He proved it again Saturday. Tech's defense got decent pressure on him all night and he overthrew a receiver 4 times. 4 times!!!! He is clearly a product of the system and his accuracy is downright terrible after 15 yards.
Tannehill and Jones aren't even in the top 25 in college football in completion percentage. That says a lot, especially for Jones who has Broyles and Stills to throw to.

I'm telling you guys. Nick Foles is the guy we should get. No talent and a rushing attack that's not even in the top 100, sacked 3x as many times as Luck, Jones and Barkley, and he's still has the Wildcats in the top 5 passing teams in college.
Foles is in the top 10 in completion percentage and top 5 in yards thrown.

Yes he has footwork problems and yes he does have mobility concerns, but those are very fixable problems.

This guy is Roethlisberger 2.0 IMO.

I would take RG3, Foles or even Weeden (rd 2).
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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As much as I want a new QB I don't want to draft a QB in the first round just because. They have to be worth the pick.
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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There is an outside shot that Barkley is there when we pick and I know boe loves him. I personally love RG3 (my big mancrush of this year) but I know a lot of people who don't.

And I guess I'm just higher on Tannehill than you are but he has a LOT of upside. Remember, this is his first year playing QB after converting from WR. He'll need a year to sit, but we have Cassel to mentor him for that year.

I'm not saying we even really have to take Tannehill in the first.. he might be there in the second, but we absolutely need a high upside guy.

Of course, Pioli could shock all of us and trade up to #1, but we know how likely that is. :D
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:05 AM    (permalink
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IMO QB is a huge need. But I'm just not sure I see the Chiefs replacing Cassel. They had a chance in 09 with Freeman and Sanchez but elected to go with Tyson Jackson instead. IMO Cassel isn't a bad QB. He's just not one that's going to carry a team. Like I said, he's more Dave Krieg/Steve DeBerg than Aaron Rodgers/Tom Brady. Which is fine if you plan to be like the Ravens from the early 2000s. Me, I'd prefer to try to find and develop an upper echelon QB. But that's just me.
Cassel is a bad QB.

Pioli went the safe route because Sanchez and Freeman were gigantic question marks. Sanchez hardly had any playing time and Freeman really suffered from the Ron Prince era.

The problem is the era of making something happen with a Dave Krieg or a DeBerg is over, and probably isn't coming back ever. The Jets have tried to surround Sanchez with unbelievable talent, and they've came up short. The Falcons have tried to surround Matt Ryan with unbelievable talent, and they've came up short. Ravens? Same thing. You can probably add the 49ers to that list by the end of the season.
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:54 AM    (permalink
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Cassel's so bad... He's been a Top 10 QB 2 out of the previous 3 years and the other year was 2009. In 2010, he brought this team to an AFC West championship and the first home playoff game Kansas City has experienced in quite some time and rightfully went to the Pro Bowl for an outstanding individual performance.

The whole team started slow this year. Their pass catchers have been injured (Moeaki, Baldwin), don't belong in the NFL (Urban, Copper, Colbert), or have just been getting acclimated to the team (Baldwin, Breaston, Colbert). Things are starting to come together with Cassel connecting with Breaston and Baldwin finally getting in on full practice time and some game time (interesting how they used him in Moeaki's role Sunday).

They also run a pretty conservative style of offense that's more focused on the running game, which is great. But that means that they usually only have 2-3 guys running routes. If you think Cassel is "bad" because you picked him up for your fantasy team, then you're insane. He'll put up some numbers when the passing game can create better match-ups more consistently, but right now they're relying on Bowe and Breaston just just flat-out beat double and triple coverage or a screen play to break open.

Cassel has a lot going for him. Great at the line of scrimmage, does an excellent job with adjustments, is one of the most intelligent QBs in the NFL when you get into strategy, reading the defense, and X's & O's. He works like few others in the film room and it shows on the field. Cassel's mobility is top-notch. Few outside of Cam and Vick are close to Cassel when he decides to tuck the ball and take off, and he's a load to bring down. He probably throws the best fade route in the NFL. I really don't think anyone's better at it. He's not going to launch a ball 70 yards, but he throws a quality deep ball - especially inside opposition territory.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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He can't read defenses. He can't move off his first read. His mobility is a liability because of his lack of read ability.. if his first option isn't there he gets happy feet. His arm is average and his fade route isn't nearly as good as you're making it out to be.

Face it, he's average across the board.

When the Chiefs play bad defenses, Cassel usually shines. When they play good teams, he usually withers. It's just the way it is.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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As much as I want a new QB I don't want to draft a QB in the first round just because. They have to be worth the pick.
Exactly the way I feel. If Pioli sees a franchise guy out there (besides the obvious...Luck), then by all means take him. If not then ILB. Jovan Belcher isn't a liability but basically he's just a guy and at 6'2" 228 he isn't the ILB to stuff the inside run and make plays. Yes, I do want a dominating defense.

At some point, the Chiefs need to address the RB position. Thomas Jones needs to retire and although Jamaal Charles will be back he probably won't be 100 % until the end of the season. RBs and WRs usually take about 18 months to come back to 100 % form from a torn ACL (look at Wes Welker, he was back last year but he wasn't back to form until this year). I don't see Pioli taking an RB in the first round, maybe second.
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Cassel's so bad... He's been a Top 10 QB 2 out of the previous 3 years and the other year was 2009. In 2010, he brought this team to an AFC West championship and the first home playoff game Kansas City has experienced in quite some time and rightfully went to the Pro Bowl for an outstanding individual performance.
As someone with an outside perspective who has also watched a good amount of Chiefs football over the past two year, Cassel was never a top 10 QB. Also if I'm not mistaken, the Chargers were the only team they beat last year with a winning record and Cassel had something like 65 yards passing in that game. Like vidae said, he gets exposed every time they face a good defense. It's not that he's outright a 'BAD QB'. He's just average to sub-par in every aspect of his game and because of that, he doesn't present any real challenges to opposing defenses. How can you expect to win big games with a quarterback like that? He seems like a really nice guy, who's intelligent, well liked, a good leader and was a serviceable to pretty good player for two years. But if you don't have a QB who can elevate the team around him and move his team forward, you need a new QB.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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He's just average to sub-par in every aspect of his game and because of that, he doesn't present any real challenges to opposing defenses. How can you expect to win big games with a quarterback like that? He seems like a really nice guy, who's intelligent, well liked, a good leader and was a serviceable to pretty good player for two years. But if you don't have a QB who can elevate the team around him and move his team forward, you need a new QB.
you're exactly right and furthermore, his positive characteristics (nice guy, intelligent, good leader and great film study/preparedness) make him a perfect candidate to be a short term mentor for a young QB with huge upside. take a guy with big physical upside and add Cassel's leadership and film study and you might have a really good franchise QB.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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How do we know Stanzi isn't the guy who we will groom to take over in a few years? Say what you want, but IMO only Luck, RG3 and maybe Barkley (I don't trust USC QB's and he's clearly feeding off of elite talent) are better than Stanzi.

I'd take Stanzi over Jones, Tannehil, Weeden (simply because of age), and Moore.

People forget the guy is a film rat, can make the throws, is a MAN in the pocket (here that Cassel?) and is a leader. It wouldn't shock me if Stanzi really is being groomed to take over for Cassel.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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As for the next draft, I think it's no question that our biggest need is STILL another pass rusher. Brandon Jenkins would be good to look at.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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People forget the guy is a film rat, can make the throws, is a MAN in the pocket (here that Cassel?) and is a leader. It wouldn't shock me if Stanzi really is being groomed to take over for Cassel.
Cassel is both of those things. There are alot of negatives about Cassel but I have never had a problem with his leadership and preparation has never been an issue.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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Cassel is both of those things. There are alot of negatives about Cassel but I have never had a problem with his leadership and preparation has never been an issue.
I agree. I think Stanzi is a guy who works hard just like Cassel. I believe Pioli drafted Stanzi because he is an extremely similar prospect to Tom Brady (even same throwing motion) along with his work ethic, relationship with Ferentz and his confident play at Iowa.

I just don't understand what the manlove for Landry Jones and Ryan Tannehill is? People are wanting to mock them to us simply because we want a new QB.
These guys aren't even getting it done in college. I understand the Luck, Barkley and RG3 love, but not mocking of Jones and Tannehill to KC.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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I agree. I think Stanzi is a guy who works hard just like Cassel. I believe Pioli drafted Stanzi because he is an extremely similar prospect to Tom Brady (even same throwing motion) along with his work ethic, relationship with Ferentz and his confident play at Iowa.

I just don't understand what the manlove for Landry Jones and Ryan Tannehill is? People are wanting to mock them to us simply because we want a new QB.
These guys aren't even getting it done in college. I understand the Luck, Barkley and RG3 love, but not mocking of Jones and Tannehill to KC.

uhhh have you seen their numbers?explain how they're "not getting it done in college".I watched a lot of OU and we were'nt watching the same QB.I am hesitant taking Tannahill in the 1st but I'd have no prob taking Jones in 1st.and please tell me you did'nt compare Stanzi to Brady now that is funny
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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uhhh have you seen their numbers?explain how they're "not getting it done in college".I watched a lot of OU and we were'nt watching the same QB.I am hesitant taking Tannahill in the 1st but I'd have no prob taking Jones in 1st.and please tell me you did'nt compare Stanzi to Brady now that is funny
As a prospect. Never said he was going to be as successful as Tom.

And if you watch a lot of OU games, maybe you saw the Landry Jones that overthrew his WR's 4X, 2 of which would have been TD's against Texas Tech. You may have also seen him not lead his team to a first down for most of the first half. Or maybe you saw him underthrow a lot of balls? He faced a good defense in college and had OU floundering with Broyles and Stills out wide. Even in the FSU game, he underthrew Stills on the TD. Fortunately Stills is an elite college athlete to bail him out. The first time FSU got any sort of pressure on Jones he threw a pick.

I live in OKC. Even Sooner fans hate him and don't think he's anywhere near as good as Bradford. Sooner fans want their 5 star recruit Belle to come in for crying out loud.

Jones accuracy is very suspect. He is literally the Matt Cassel of college (but with a stronger arm). All system and talent helping him succeed.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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I'd rather spend a high pick on a Tannehill then on a Jenkins. The lack of pass rush is not because of OLB opposite of Tamba, when Studie/Houston are in they never have them rush. Houston now is greater than Jenkins will ever be. Houston played in the same system and Jenkins is awful in coverage.
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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I'd rather an OLB in the 5th round who is giving time to develop..oh wait we have Cam Sheffield and Houston. Olb is not an issue. I wouldnt mind a guy in the 5th for depth or ILB purposes...oh wait Gabe Miller is on IR we just drafted him
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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OLB and ILB probably aren't needs, though I'd be ok with an ILB in the second or third to eventually replace Belcher, unless they feel Siler is that guy.

Otherwise it's QB, RT and RB (to replace Jones). Those are the biggest needs if we want to take the next step and become a playoff caliber team. Making the playoffs doesn't make you a playoff caliber team. WINNING in the playoffs makes you a playoff caliber team.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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You have a heck of alot more faith in Gabe Miller than I do. Also Pioli has said he saw Miller as a OLB not ILB.
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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Sheffield/Studie/Houston/Miller gives use plenty of skill and depth at OLB. OLB is very weak this year, and if you want to stick to draft stereotypes how about pass rushers from FSU. THEY SUCK.

QB/RT/QB/TE/NT/QB/ILB/RB/QB are the needs.

Stanzi one year in the system, unless something Bradiesque happens, is not the answer.
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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Stanzi one year in the system, unless something Bradiesque happens, is not the answer.
I don't disagree. That said I feel people want a QB not named Cassel so bad that they are willing to take anyone.

Cassel is no Brady and never will be but he isn't Kyle Boller either. I'm all for QB in the first round but only if he truly is a upgrade.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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I'd rather spend a high pick on a Tannehill then on a Jenkins. The lack of pass rush is not because of OLB opposite of Tamba, when Studie/Houston are in they never have them rush. Houston now is greater than Jenkins will ever be. Houston played in the same system and Jenkins is awful in coverage.
Actually according to PFF, Houston rushed 11 times in Oakland and did nothing. I loved Houston as a prospect though and I think he'll be good. He just needs to start.

As for Reiff, I would love to have him, but I'm not sure Haley is going to go against Richardson. Haley seems to have a mancrush on him. To be fair, Richardson has played much better this season in pass pro. He's given up QB pressures, but not as many sacks. Plus our OL is tied for 5th in sacks given up.

Personally, I think we need to build our depth in this draft. WE need to draft a S to backup Berry, TE in case Moeaki doesn't get healthy, RB to replace Jones, OG/C for depth when Weigmann retires and another ILB would be nice.

I would be ok if we got an impact playmaker in round 1, then build depth the rest of the way.
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:30 AM    (permalink
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About that RB,here's a study that indicates RBs and WRs return but...

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-pow113006.php

Quote:
The good news for NFL players who sustain an injury to their anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) is that they'll likely play again in the NFL. The bad news is, they'll return with diminished performance on the field, concludes a study in the December issue of The American Journal of Sports Medicine.
21 percent (7 of 33 ACL injuries) never returned to play in another regular season NFL game.

For those players who returned to NFL action following an ACL injury, performance fell by one-third.

For a team that depends on the run, this is not good news.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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As someone with an outside perspective who has also watched a good amount of Chiefs football over the past two year, Cassel was never a top 10 QB. Also if I'm not mistaken, the Chargers were the only team they beat last year with a winning record and Cassel had something like 65 yards passing in that game. Like vidae said, he gets exposed every time they face a good defense. It's not that he's outright a 'BAD QB'. He's just average to sub-par in every aspect of his game and because of that, he doesn't present any real challenges to opposing defenses. How can you expect to win big games with a quarterback like that? He seems like a really nice guy, who's intelligent, well liked, a good leader and was a serviceable to pretty good player for two years. But if you don't have a QB who can elevate the team around him and move his team forward, you need a new QB.
The San Diego game they played in a torrential downpour? OK. Their lack of receiving options gets exposed against good defenses. The Patriots had some problems when teams figured out the Moss-Welker combo (which is almost identical to how the Chiefs used Bowe & Moeaki). Is Tom Brady a bad QB? No. They just didn't have a well-rounded passing game. They fixed that by adding more quality receivers and TEs. The Chiefs need to do the same (and have to some degree).
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