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Old 11-15-2011, 04:54 PM    (permalink
nepg
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They can certainly win with Cassel. I really don't get the logic or the mindset of people who run that line if they watch the team, pay attention to the offense, and have an idea of what they're talking about when it comes to football.

The Chiefs had a really bad run, recovered with their dredges and just couldn't continue to make improvements and evolve to where they can get to.

With Baldwin, Breaston, and Bowe, they could very well have the best receiving group in the NFL. They've got a good TE in Moeaki and the best RB in the NFL with Jamaal Charles. The coaching staff needs to put something together that works that isn't the simple crap they've had to resort to this year. The offense lacks complexity and identity in its current state. They also need to get better at protecting Cassel. These aren't hard fixes and they don't involve player acquisition or account for increased talent levels (which will definitely happen).

Defensively, they're young. They kind of laid down in the first two games after the offense couldn't do anything, but have been really good since (sans Miami). The problems, in large part, go back to safety play. They're getting one of the best in the game back when Berry returns. ILB can be improved, too. I don't see real problems with this defense...it's going to be a real power in the coming years.

This is definitely a Super Bowl caliber team in 2012.
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Old 11-15-2011, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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You're wrong, but I'm tired of going into detail about WHY you're wrong. Months of it have sapped my strength and I'm just annoyed now.

We'll never see eye to eye, but I guess one of us will be proven right eventually. If we win the Super Bowl with Cassel, I was wrong. And if not, well..
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Old 11-15-2011, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nepg View Post
This is definitely a Super Bowl caliber team in 2012.
Not unless they get a legit QB.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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I would take my chances with Payton Manning as our QB next year.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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Check this article out about the crop of QB's for 2012

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2011/...ve-their-stats

Nick Foles has the 2nd highest completion percentage and Jones and Wilson have thrown more passes than him.

I hope Stanzi is the man, but if he isn't, we should be the first in line to draft Foles.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:37 AM    (permalink
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Foles is awful. Just flat out awful. He'd be the 6th QB I'd consider taking. Hell, I'd rather stick with Cassel.
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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I like Foles, but his mobility scares me if I'm looking to draft him.
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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I posted this over in the team needs thread in Mock Drafts but it needs repeating over here since I think many of you are living under the delusion (sorry!) that the old Jamaal will be back next year.
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Sorry, Vidae, but you must include RB when listing Chiefs needs. The Chiefs were built around running the ball and using a committee of backs to do it (even a healthy Jamaal Charles is not an every down back).

Now let's look at what they have going into next year...
Thomas Jones is averaging 2.9 ypc with the lowest yac (yards after contact) in the league (last time I saw stats). He needs to retire.
Jackie Battle had a good game against the 31st ranked run defense and hasn't gained over 76 yards in a game since. He is what he is, a career backup and special teamer.
Dexter McCluster can't block and can't break tackles. He might be a good 3rd down back if he ever learns to pull in a pass cleanly.
Le'Ron McClain was signed as FB and apparently that's all the Chiefs think he can do.
Jamaal Charles will be back next year but the chances that the old Jamaal will be back are slim. A recent study of 33 NFL players (RB & WR) with ACL injuries found that 21 percent (7 of 33 ACL injuries) never returned to play in another regular season NFL game. "For those players who returned to NFL action following an ACL injury, performance fell by one-third." Power rating per game played decreased from 9.9 pre-injury to 6.5 post-injury. "Knee pain, stiffness, loss of strength, deconditioning and reduced proprioception (the sense of knowing where your leg is) may be factors explaining the loss of production in players after an ACL injury, the authors theorize. Further, ACL reconstruction does not perfectly recreate the complex anatomy and composition of a person's ACL before injury." http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-pow113006.php

It's time to go find another RB.
On the bright side, there's a chance he might be back in 2013. http://www.footballdocs.com/RB_injury_rule.html
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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RB is a need, but not bigger than QB, ILB or RT.. until we know the status of Jamaal. He might never be the same player that he was, but there is a chance he could be. I'd definitely draft one this year but I guess I'm just not ready to give up on him before he has even fully recovered.

Also keep in mind that this study was published in 2006 and the test subjects were players who played from 1998 to 2002. Medicine is changing every day so you can't bank off of procedures over a decade old with the stuff they can do today.

I'm not a fan of being a run first team either. We need a QB to throw to the weapons we do have. I'm a fan of a more balanced attack I guess.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Take Wes Welker as a recent example. He was back last year but his stats were all way down. This year he is back to full production. That's probably the best we can expect from Jamaal.

Besides who is the other back? Even a pre-injury Jamaal was not a full-time RB.
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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I completely agree that we need a RB to pair with Charles.. I've always agreed with that, but I think you can get that in the 3rd or lower, not in the first 2.
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vidae View Post
I completely agree that we need a RB to pair with Charles.. I've always agreed with that, but I think you can get that in the 3rd or lower, not in the first 2.
Well, I don't see Pioli taking a RB in the first either. Add in his NE days and he's only taken a RB in the 1st once and that was when he was supposedly overuled by Belichick (Maroney in 2006...Pioli was right). I guess if Trent Richardson falls to the Chiefs, maybe or at least an argument among the small group allowed in the war room. Second round might be another story. I can't imagine anyone in the Chiefs organization wanting to go into the 2012 season with Jackie Battle as the workhorse back.
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Old 11-18-2011, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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Completely agree. It has to be addressed.

With Cassel out now I don't see how we're not picking top 10. If I had my way I'd move a lot of picks to move up and secure Luck or Barkley. It's our biggest need (and has been) and it secures our future.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMatriculator View Post
Take Wes Welker as a recent example. He was back last year but his stats were all way down. This year he is back to full production. That's probably the best we can expect from Jamaal.

Besides who is the other back? Even a pre-injury Jamaal was not a full-time RB.
Welker got hurt in the last game of the season, though. Huge difference. The reason Welker was a miracle was he didn't have the extra 4 months that Charles will have. Biggest thing will be the mental hurdles.

And Pioli won't be hesitant to take a RB if Richardson is the option. It was Josh McDaniels who is rumored to have lobbied hard for Maroney, but the Pats were drafting a RB either way. Maroney was a perfect fit for that team at the time. The only real prerequisite for a Pioli pick is the guy he takes in Round 1 will have to be a significant contributor immediately. A RB like Richradson undoubtedly falls in that category.

That said, the Chiefs could have some attractive options in this draft. They might be looking at a chance to get Jonathan Martin...which is a slam dunk pick for the Chiefs. They turn that pick in with 14:59 (or whatever the amount of time they get now is) left on the clock.

To me, if it's not Martin/Kalil, it's Burfict/Richardson. Either way, it's a huge upgrade somewhere for this team.
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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Or it's Barkley, Tannehill, RG3 or Landry Jones. Or hey, maybe even Andrew Luck!

Quote:
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They might be looking at a chance to get Jonathan Martin...which is a slam dunk pick for the Chiefs. They turn that pick in with 14:59 (or whatever the amount of time they get now is) left on the clock.
Martin is falling down draft boards right now. He definitely isn't a top 10 lock by any stretch of the imagination, and we're going to be picking top 10.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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I'm hoping for a top 8 pick and trading it to Cinncinati for both their #1 picks (Oakland and there own) pick so they can move up to grab Trent Richardson. That would complete their offense and would give us the change to fill a couple of huge needs......maybe a Decastro and a Burfict. Probably just a pipe dream but would love to make that move.
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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From my vantage point the Chiefs are a very good Qb away more so than filling 2-3 immediate needs via the draft.

If I KC I would lobby hard for a top 2 QB, even sacraficing picks/players.
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i mean, why wouldn't the broncos take cam newton? they can play him at quarterback WITH tebow!
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
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From my vantage point the Chiefs are a very good Qb away more so than filling 2-3 immediate needs via the draft.

If I KC I would lobby hard for a top 2 QB, even sacraficing picks/players.
I would too. I would do what it takes to move up to #1 for Luck or #2 for Barkley. I wouldn't even hesitate. QB, RT, ILB and depth and we're moving in the right direction immediately.
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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I am good at typing.

You get a QB you change the landscape and mind set fo your team. The defense plays differently, the QB releases the ball quicker which makes your line look better. Cassel holds the ball forever
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i mean, why wouldn't the broncos take cam newton? they can play him at quarterback WITH tebow!
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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1. RG3
2. Coby Fleener
3. Derek Wolfe

I would be very happy with this.
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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I could get behind that, but mostly because RG3 is the biggest mancrush I've ever had on a prospect. Honestly, I could get behind any QB in the top 5.. anything to get us out of this funk.
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Old 11-26-2011, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Besides wishful thinking, I'm gonna need you guys to convince me that the Chiefs are ready to give up on Cassel. If Haley is gone anyway, why wouldn't Pioli bring in McDaniels and give Cassel another year?

Not saying Cassel doesn't suck; he very much does. I just don't trust that your front office is done with him.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiFan24 View Post
Besides wishful thinking, I'm gonna need you guys to convince me that the Chiefs are ready to give up on Cassel. If Haley is gone anyway, why wouldn't Pioli bring in McDaniels and give Cassel another year?

Not saying Cassel doesn't suck; he very much does. I just don't trust that your front office is done with him.
I think they're more than happy going into 2012 with Cassel under center working with their entire offense. And I expect Swinging D Stanzi to be the #2 QB.

I expect Haley to be back, but I'd be good with McDaniels in a situation where he's not shopping for the groceries and working with the talent the Chiefs have on offense. I really think they need to keep Crennel if they make a coaching change.
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Old 11-27-2011, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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QB first and foremost must be address but I have a question for my fellow Chieftans. If Barks and Wilson stay and Luck, RG3 and Jones are gone by the time we pick (which may or may not happen) which direction would you want to go?

Let's say hypothetically picking 6th.

Rg3, Kalil, Luck, Claiborne, Jones and player X are off the board.
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 11-27-2011, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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OT, Trent Richardson, or ILB. Possibly trading back in that spot.
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