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Old 12-11-2011, 04:18 AM    (permalink
deepthoughtlife
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Robert Griffin III has one major strength -the deep ball. He is very accurate going deep, and gets the ball there without any significant delay.

He has one major weakness -his footwork is utterly horrible. This leads to inconsistency, and bouts of far worse accuracy than you would expect from him.

He is obviously very talented, but he certainly is very flawed. He is very fast, but often gets caught easily by rushers. He has a great deep ball, but often can't manage to throw well in the short to medium area. He doesn't have many incompletions, but quite a few of them are on what should be easy passes to wide open receivers, but which he misses badly.

I would liken him to Colin Kaepernick. Unfortunately, that comparison is of little help in seeing how well the prospect transitions into the player, but they are very similar. In many ways, Kaepernick was a much more talented player. The biggest difference is, people realized Kaepernick was a massive project player, and don't appear to realize the same about Griffin. Scott has him going top ten, and maybe he will, but it simply isn't a good risk that high.

Maybe it would be fair to point out the kind of success he's had statistically, but there are a lot of factors to explain it away. First, Baylor's receivers are seemingly always wide open. Second, raw talent can get you a lot further in college than in the pros. Third, most college teams are horrible at defending the the pass against any QB who can run. Fourth, the second half of his season was way down from the first half, though I will freely admit it was an amazing season. Then again, where is Colt Brennan right now? I haven't the foggiest either. Griffin has much bigger problems than Brennan did.

Is Griffin worth a pick? Of course. Is he worth an early pick? Not so much. I would slot him in around round 3, though a strong case could be made for round two.
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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Sorry, but you can't seriously criticize a college QB's accuracy when he throws for over 72% completions. If you've seen RGIII play a complete game, he completes passes at all levels with uncanny accuracy. It just so happens he's uniquely rare throwing the deep ball and hitting his WRs in stride.

Swing passes, bubble screens, 15 yard slants, dig routes, 20 yard outs. Robert has the full repertoire of passes and he can throw the ball from all angles.

'Bouts of far worse accuracy than you would expect from him..?'
You know you're setting up the expectation that RGIII should have been completing around 85% of his passes this season??

WHy suddenly is Griffin expected to play at a level passing the football no other QB is the history of college football or the pros has ever attained?

And I hate the bogus criticism that since RGIII doesn't look like Devin Hester on a punt return when he scrambles, somehow Griffin is overrated as a runner.
RGIII is a mobile QB with elite speed. He's not someone like Mike Vick who becomes a RB when he breaks from the pocket.

Colin Kaepernick is nowhere near as sophisticated or developed as a passer coming out of Nevada as RGIII is after starting 4 years for Baylor.

You know why RGIII seemed to always have WRs WIDE open?? Because Griffin is one of the few college QBs who can look off safeties and freeze defenders when rolls out of the pocket.

The route tree Kaepernick was required to throw at Nevada was nowhere near the offense being run at Baylor. The 'Pistol' is almost about as sophisticated a passing offense as the one being run now in Denver with Tebow with the emphasis on limiting the QB's read to one WR on half the field.

Griffin's discipline, leadership, work ethic and intangibles including his physical ability are why he's going top 5 in April.

Third rounder?? Jeezus.

And please don't ever compare Colt McCoy or Colin Kaepernick to RGIII as if they were similar prospects.
McCoy doesn't have the arm or mobility or the size, and CK as a senior was simply too raw and unfinished as a passer to compare him to RGIII.
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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I shake my head at all the people popping up after last night of RGIII > Luck as a prospect...
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Luck may not have lost any ground in the minds of scouts as the top QB prospect available, but I have less certainty that odds are that Luck will be head and shoulders a better pro than RGIII.

If BOTH these guys developed into top 5 QBs in the NFL, I would not be surprised.
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RaiderNation View Post
I think him winning th Heisman will only help his stock and hype heading into April, just wait until he runs a 4.4, NFLN will be raving about him 24/7. I also think it could make Barkley stay in school since RG3 is a real challenger for the #2 QB position. Barkley will stay in school and likely battle with Wilson/Jones for the top QB spot next year.
I'm not trying to knock you but I think that him running a 4.4 would have more to do with improving his stock than the heisman. The award is really just fodder for the media and means very little to his NFL career
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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http://twitter.com/#!/MockingTheDraf...20443780562944

Interesting side note:

Haven't found anything anywhere else yet but this makes it seem that he has still not yet decided between Law School and the NFL.

Also Elmo socks last night haha
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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I shake my head at all the people popping up after last night of RGIII > Luck as a prospect...
That's what is going to damage discussion here more than anything else, that and the idea that Griffin somehow came out of nowhere.


As far as Griffin's accuracy in footwork, I won't get terribly in depth about it because I have in the past, but those are two of his stronger attributes. Totally disagree that those are weakness. His footwork within and outside of the pocket, along with the accuracy that comes with it, are a large part of why I would take him in the top ten and feel good about it even.
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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http://twitter.com/#!/MockingTheDraf...20443780562944

Interesting side note:

Haven't found anything anywhere else yet but this makes it seem that he has still not yet decided between Law School and the NFL.

Also Elmo socks last night haha
Superman socks, not Elmo socks.

edit: Oh, Elmo socks today, Superman socks last night.
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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Superman socks, not Elmo socks.

edit: Oh, Elmo socks today, Superman socks last night.
Oh my bad haha. Still awesome
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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He's my favorite prospect in the draft, assuming he declares. Sky's definitely the limit for him.
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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Man kind of sucks that he won that trophy. Great accomplishment, but say bye to his NFL career. I wanted RGIII to make it in the NFL, why did he have to win the trophy? WHY?

Should have given it to the honey badger.
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:58 AM    (permalink
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Man kind of sucks that he won that trophy. Great accomplishment, but say bye to his NFL career. I wanted RGIII to make it in the NFL, why did he have to win the trophy? WHY?

Should have given it to the honey badger.
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:20 AM    (permalink
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Less recent, but more proven:



In between those guys though, I think Carson Palmer and Vinny Testaverde were the best Heisman QBs. We'll see how Bradford works out.

Not exactly anything to write home about, as a group.

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Old 12-13-2011, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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Sorry, but you can't seriously criticize a college QB's accuracy when he throws for over 72% completions. If you've seen RGIII play a complete game, he completes passes at all levels with uncanny accuracy. It just so happens he's uniquely rare throwing the deep ball and hitting his WRs in stride.

Swing passes, bubble screens, 15 yard slants, dig routes, 20 yard outs. Robert has the full repertoire of passes and he can throw the ball from all angles.

'Bouts of far worse accuracy than you would expect from him..?'
You know you're setting up the expectation that RGIII should have been completing around 85% of his passes this season??

WHy suddenly is Griffin expected to play at a level passing the football no other QB is the history of college football or the pros has ever attained?

And I hate the bogus criticism that since RGIII doesn't look like Devin Hester on a punt return when he scrambles, somehow Griffin is overrated as a runner.
RGIII is a mobile QB with elite speed. He's not someone like Mike Vick who becomes a RB when he breaks from the pocket.

Colin Kaepernick is nowhere near as sophisticated or developed as a passer coming out of Nevada as RGIII is after starting 4 years for Baylor.

You know why RGIII seemed to always have WRs WIDE open?? Because Griffin is one of the few college QBs who can look off safeties and freeze defenders when rolls out of the pocket.

The route tree Kaepernick was required to throw at Nevada was nowhere near the offense being run at Baylor. The 'Pistol' is almost about as sophisticated a passing offense as the one being run now in Denver with Tebow with the emphasis on limiting the QB's read to one WR on half the field.

Griffin's discipline, leadership, work ethic and intangibles including his physical ability are why he's going top 5 in April.

Third rounder?? Jeezus.

And please don't ever compare Colt McCoy or Colin Kaepernick to RGIII as if they were similar prospects.
McCoy doesn't have the arm or mobility or the size, and CK as a senior was simply too raw and unfinished as a passer to compare him to RGIII.
I'm afraid you missed several parts of what I said entirely in your response. I explicitly mentioned that he had bouts of accuracy far worse than you would expect from him. That means he is usually quite accurate, but has a problem that can make him cease to be so. Looking at his stats, and overall success, you would expect that he was more accurate than he turned out to be in scouting. I never claimed his arm wasn't up to the task.

RGIII is a decent runner, but brings nothing exceptional to the table when doing so. He could not run an offense like Tebow's, or like Vick has had in the past. He therefore must be evaluated mostly as a passer.

His receivers were wide open, because the defense was not up to the task of covering them. He may have had something to do about it, but it is the receivers who won those battles. His receivers are good players , and you should not take away credit from them because you wish to prop up Griffin.

Robert Griffin III does not appear to be a sophisticated passer from my scouting. I don't know what you are thinking of when you say his footwork is excellent, but when I look at it, it is very sloppy and rarely correct. When he misses his receivers, this usually appears to be the cause. His decision making did not stand out either.

Kaepernick did not run anywhere near the same offense at Nevada; that part is definitely true. The question is, how well did they run their respective offenses, and what does it tell us about them as potential NFL players? Both of them were very successful; Kaepernick was very successful for more years. Every year as a starter, Kaepernick made Nevada a dangerous team. Griffin did that this year. The pistol could get away with being a relatively simple passing system, because Kaepernick ran the relatively complicated running game very well; Kaepernick still brought a lot of value to the passing game.

Kaepernick is a better runner, and has a much stronger arm than Griffin. Both of them threw beautiful deep balls. Both of them had poor footwork, though Kaepernick's was probably better. Griffin has a higher completion percentage, but in only one season is it notable. Griffin takes sacks at a much greater rate (75 in 40 games vs. 56 in 51 games). Kaepernick had more attempts. Kaepernick was a very intelligent player -the system was not simple because it needed to be that way for him.

Kaepernick had every bit as much intangibles as Griffin does. Both of them are projects. Both of them could end up making some team very happy. Neither is/was worthy of a first round pick.

Griffin can't even begin to challenge Luck as a QB prospect.
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Old 12-13-2011, 12:36 AM    (permalink
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'Bouts of far worse accuracy than you would expect from him..?'
You know you're setting up the expectation that RGIII should have been completing around 85% of his passes this season??
Baylor had one of the worst cases of dink and dunk I've ever seen in college football. His completion percentage was a joke.
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Old 12-13-2011, 05:42 AM    (permalink
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Baylor had one of the worst cases of dink and dunk I've ever seen in college football. His completion percentage was a joke.
Take away the passes less than 15 yards, since Baylor apparently is the only program that utilizes bubbles screens. Go 25 and over.
His completion percentage is still impressive and that's without relying on a TE.

So, Luck's 70% completions are pure, no screens, no 5-10 yard slants. Ignore the fact that Luck is throwing rainbows to TEs all day.
And Barkley's 69% completions are ALL 25 yard crossing routes that split over and under coverage because Barkley's arm is scary strong.

No college QB has looked more impressive throwing the football than RGIII this
season.

On passes 25+ yards, RGIII's completion percentage is 51% with 20 TDs and 1 INT.
For Matt Barkley, his completion percentage is 40.8% with 13 TDs and 0 INTs.

Andrew Luck??? 28.6%, 3 TDs and 1 INT.

Luck gets a partial pass IMO because Stanford really lacked deep threats this year.

Barkley was good throwing long. RGIII was off the charts.

RGIII isn't worth a first round pick??
You mean the way Cam Newton wasn't worth a first round pick last year??
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Sorry, but you can't seriously criticize a college QB's accuracy when he throws for over 72% completions. If you've seen RGIII play a complete game, he completes passes at all levels with uncanny accuracy. It just so happens he's uniquely rare throwing the deep ball and hitting his WRs in stride.
His footwork needs all kinds of work because of Baylor's offense but I absolutely agree with this, that he shows the ability to throw to all levels with impressive accuracy, despite his footwork.

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And I hate the bogus criticism that since RGIII doesn't look like Devin Hester on a punt return when he scrambles, somehow Griffin is overrated as a runner.
RGIII is a mobile QB with elite speed. He's not someone like Mike Vick who becomes a RB when he breaks from the pocket.
Not bogus at all. I see this as a significant flag because it could say something about his pocket presence. When he runs, he looks like a track guy, not a football player. Not that he doesn't show toughness, but he lacks solid running instincts. There are far slower players that show a much better ability to be elusive. Granted, I've watched only a handful of Baylor games this season, but I can't recall a time I've seen Griffin escape a tackle where he was dead to rights.

Just finished watching the Ari-SF game. Skelton's not regarded as a supremely mobile QB but his ability to elude and buy time reminds you of Big Ben. Both would be embarrassed by Griffin in a race but, in the pocket, with a couple guys bearing down, I'd bet on the those two escaping over RGIII every time. Agreed Griffin is a mobile QB with speed. But since the ability to scramble or buy time is connected with pocket presence, I think it is a legitimate question mark for him. In other words, with how easily RGIII is tackled at times, given his elite athletic ability, makes you wonder just how good his ability to buy time in the pocket will be like at the next level.

Perhaps he can dominate as a pocket passer at the next level and make it sort of a mute point but pocket presence is huge factor and hard to evaluate.
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Sorry, but you can't seriously criticize a college QB's accuracy when he throws for over 72% completions. If you've seen RGIII play a complete game, he completes passes at all levels with uncanny accuracy. It just so happens he's uniquely rare throwing the deep ball and hitting his WRs in stride.

Swing passes, bubble screens, 15 yard slants, dig routes, 20 yard outs. Robert has the full repertoire of passes and he can throw the ball from all angles.

'Bouts of far worse accuracy than you would expect from him..?'
You know you're setting up the expectation that RGIII should have been completing around 85% of his passes this season??

WHy suddenly is Griffin expected to play at a level passing the football no other QB is the history of college football or the pros has ever attained?

And I hate the bogus criticism that since RGIII doesn't look like Devin Hester on a punt return when he scrambles, somehow Griffin is overrated as a runner.
RGIII is a mobile QB with elite speed. He's not someone like Mike Vick who becomes a RB when he breaks from the pocket.

Colin Kaepernick is nowhere near as sophisticated or developed as a passer coming out of Nevada as RGIII is after starting 4 years for Baylor.

You know why RGIII seemed to always have WRs WIDE open?? Because Griffin is one of the few college QBs who can look off safeties and freeze defenders when rolls out of the pocket.

The route tree Kaepernick was required to throw at Nevada was nowhere near the offense being run at Baylor. The 'Pistol' is almost about as sophisticated a passing offense as the one being run now in Denver with Tebow with the emphasis on limiting the QB's read to one WR on half the field.

Griffin's discipline, leadership, work ethic and intangibles including his physical ability are why he's going top 5 in April.

Third rounder?? Jeezus.

And please don't ever compare Colt McCoy or Colin Kaepernick to RGIII as if they were similar prospects.
McCoy doesn't have the arm or mobility or the size, and CK as a senior was simply too raw and unfinished as a passer to compare him to RGIII.
Very well summed up. He's going likely #2 in the draft.
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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I like Griffin whole bunches but another thing I'm a bit worried about is that I have heard Baylor's offense is a high school offense and that the learning curve will be huge in terms of learning an NFL offense. That being said, between the Cam Newton and Tim Tebow offenses, that seems like much less of a concern.
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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His footwork needs all kinds of work because of Baylor's offense but I absolutely agree with this, that he shows the ability to throw to all levels with impressive accuracy, despite his footwork.



Not bogus at all. I see this as a significant flag because it could say something about his pocket presence. When he runs, he looks like a track guy, not a football player. Not that he doesn't show toughness, but he lacks solid running instincts. There are far slower players that show a much better ability to be elusive. Granted, I've watched only a handful of Baylor games this season, but I can't recall a time I've seen Griffin escape a tackle where he was dead to rights.

Just finished watching the Ari-SF game. Skelton's not regarded as a supremely mobile QB but his ability to elude and buy time reminds you of Big Ben. Both would be embarrassed by Griffin in a race but, in the pocket, with a couple guys bearing down, I'd bet on the those two escaping over RGIII every time. Agreed Griffin is a mobile QB with speed. But since the ability to scramble or buy time is connected with pocket presence, I think it is a legitimate question mark for him. In other words, with how easily RGIII is tackled at times, given his elite athletic ability, makes you wonder just how good his ability to buy time in the pocket will be like at the next level.

Perhaps he can dominate as a pocket passer at the next level and make it sort of a mute point but pocket presence is huge factor and hard to evaluate.
I'd rate RG111 pocket presence as one of his strongest points, he moves quickly and decisively around in the pocket and resets himself perfectly to make the throw. You don't have a completion rate like his without escapability and the smarts to reset yourself before throwing the ball.
I cannot for the life of me, figure out how you came to your conclusions. It mystifies me completely????

Big Ben uses his strength and quick feet to beat the pass rush, Shelton, has a long ways to go before he will be effective beating the rush. RG111 doesn't have these guys strength but his feet are far better that Shelton's and on par with a Big Ben or even better.

RG111's intangibles are off the chart and very close to Luck's including pocket presence and that is why he and Barkley will fight it out to go #2 in the draft.
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Old 12-13-2011, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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I didn't watch a ton of Baylor last season. When I did, I was looking for Griffin and was totally underwhelmed at his play, given his stats and the hype about him as an athlete. This season, he's really stepped up his game, and deserved all the awards, but I still see some of what I didn't like last season. From part of an independent scouting report on him from this season per O.S.:

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The biggest knock on Griffin is his mechanical and unnatural movement skills within the pocket. Griffin has not shown the natural in-pocket movements that Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley possess, leaving him just outside that top tier of quarterbacks. Now whenever he does decide to break the pocket, there is no other quarterback in college football that accelerates and explodes more quickly to top speed than Griffin. He has improved his pocket feel and footwork from last year to this year, but still has room to grow.
Every elite QB in the league has great pocket presence-the ability to feel the rush and elude it and create more time to throw downfield. Some are incredible at it (Roethlisberger) but even the nonathletic ones (Brady) will make you say, "how was he not sacked there". I don't really see that from Griffin. He does move around and keep his eyes downfield but he's not eluding defenders in tight spaces or finding his way out of sure sacks. It could be that in his spread scheme the ball is out so fast there hardly is a pocket or maby I'm being overly critical on him for having elite level athletically ability and not consistently showing it or maby I'm just grasping at what I see as off about his game.

I brought up Skelton and Ben, a couple of bigger, slower guys, to emphasize that eluding the rush is not simply a matter of quickness. It's an uncanny ability and hard to predict. See Brady-HOfer, maby GOAT. Look at Colt McCoy (back-up :), he was mobile at Texas, but he squirts out of more would be sacks than I ever would've suspected at the pro level. And you must see more of Skelton, he looks strikingly like Big Ben (moving not throwing) when the rush is on. On the flip side, check out Tavares Jackson-all the athletic ability in the world but a train wreck trying to buy time.
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Old 12-13-2011, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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Wow, I can't disagree more with that. I've seen Griffin feel the rush and use his feet to evade it both within and outside the pocket multiple times. It's what separates him from the rest of the passers in this class aside from Luck, even. Really not seeing where that one is coming from. A lot of the big plays for Baylor down the field are the result of that, even.
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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Strengths:
Outstanding athleticism...Good speed..Can buy time in the pocket and make plays with his feet...Adequate height with the frame to get bigger...Decent arm strength and has a quick release...A team leader...Throws well on the move...Displays nice ball handling skills...Had a great senior year...Still improving and has some upside.

Weaknesses:
Health and durability are concerns...Needs to bulk up and add some weight...Not comfortable in the pocket and is too eager to take off and run..Will have to adjust to a pro style offense after playing in the spread with the *****...Makes too many bad decisions...Poor mechanics & footwork...Accuracy is inconsistent...Much better athlete than quarterback and will need development
A scouting report from a QB currently in the league. Any guesses who? Probably my favorite comparison for RG3 right now as a prospect.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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A scouting report from a QB currently in the league. Any guesses who? Probably my favorite comparison for RG3 right now as a prospect.
I know who.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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He must be a bum because you won't mention his name.
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