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Old 02-28-2012, 10:24 PM    (permalink
Ozzy
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FUNBUNCHER

For a player who's faster, bigger and stronger than Ndamukong Suh, yet unable to DOMINATE C-USA tells me that Poe is less than advertised.

Maybe he's raw, maybe he's just not that good a football player.
His measurables are once-in-a-generation, but his production is less than average which is a huge problem IMO.

22 total tackles and 1 sack over 12 games in 2011 against the Middle Tennessees and Austin Peays of the football world is garbage.

Yeah, they're just stats. But the numbers are terrible.
For the most physically gifted interior Dlineman in this draft, I don't know how you can just ignore them.
Completely agree with everything you said!

That lack of production against such poor competition is a big issue. Might just be a workout warrior and that is all.

Since he is clearly a great athlete, two possible reasons why he did not play great, a lack in technique and or coaching/ or lack in passion, work ethic and intensity on the field.

Again like I said before, my bet it could be more internal than external. But who knows, will have to wait and see.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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Shortest arms among all defensive tackle (tied with Crick), and better than only three defensive ends.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Shortest arms among all defensive tackle (tied with Crick), and better than only three defensive ends.
FWIW BJ Raji also had the same arm length.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Completely agree with everything you said!

That lack of production against such poor competition is a big issue. Might just be a workout warrior and that is all.

Since he is clearly a great athlete, two possible reasons why he did not play great, a lack in technique and or coaching/ or lack in passion, work ethic and intensity on the field.

Again like I said before, my bet it could be more internal than external. But who knows, will have to wait and see.
Agree with both of you.

But we don't need to speculate. His technique and balance are poor. His hands aren't good (part of that is his short arms). And somehow for a gigantic athletic freak, he's just not that physical.

There's a lot of potential and a lot to work with but he could bust quite easily.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:30 AM    (permalink
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Found some video, finally.

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Old 03-04-2012, 01:44 AM    (permalink
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He's not impressive at all on film.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:44 AM    (permalink
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He's not impressive at all on film.
Thank you! Hopefully everyone is starting to realize this.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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You're all going to be eating a lot of crow.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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You're all going to be eating a lot of crow.
It's not like Poe magically acquired his size, strength, and athletic ability during the pre-draft process, so it's fair to wonder why a massive man with his physical abilities was mainly a non-factor against a bunch of scrubs who are never going to have a cup of coffee with an NFL club. It doesn't take much imagination to see why he could be successful at some point, but he has an incredibly long way to go before he can be considered anything more than a potentially disruptive player. His floor is among the lowest in the class based on what he's done so far, and many of the teams which could be targeting him high in the draft are picking in those early spots because they have done a poor job of evaluating and/or developing talent in the past. There's certainly a spot in the first round for a guy like Poe, but if you asked me to identify the best players in the draft right now based on their play in college, he's not even close to some of the other defensive tackles.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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Could he be this year's workout warrior? I tend to agree with those who have said having those measurables and playing against lower levels of competition he should have been dominant. For comparison's sake his senior year numbers were not much more than those compiled by Jared Crick - who only played 5 games this season.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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He looked good in shorts, but did not look that good on the field, playing against weak competition.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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He looked good in shorts, but did not look that good on the field, playing against weak competition.
That Memphis team he played on was pretty bad though. It's not like he had a lot of help.

I mean, they finished 2-10 in Conference USA, that has more to do with 21 other starters than it does to Poe.
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Old 03-04-2012, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Nah, it is all on Poe. I mean, look at how athletic he is!
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Old 03-04-2012, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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That Memphis team he played on was pretty bad though. It's not like he had a lot of help.

I mean, they finished 2-10 in Conference USA, that has more to do with 21 other starters than it does to Poe.
I know they play two different positions but Kuechly was on a pretty bad team and he was still able to perform/produce at a top notch level vs better competition than Poe.
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Old 03-04-2012, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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I know they play two different positions but Kuechly was on a pretty bad team and he was still able to perform/produce at a top notch level vs better competition than Poe.
Sidebar: This in no way is meant to knock Luke but that's a flawed argument. It's very common to see LB's on bad teams rack up tackles because the guys up front aren't making plays and the defense funnels to the MLB who gets a who bunch of tackles 5-6 yards down the field.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Hate seeing Poe being described as a top 10 pick. I don't think people who believe that realize just how unproductive he's going to be, at least early on in his NFL career

He is extremely raw and not very instinctive. He's a guy who plays with no leverage, doesn't use his hands with proper technique, plays short-armed, will put his head down at times, takes himself out of plays, and struggles to locate the football. A man of his talent playing the level of competition that he did should NOT be getting sealed out from plays, having an average motor, and not being overly productive.

He has loads of upside, but he is not nor should be a top 10 pick at this stage. If he is, thats a ton of pressure on a young man and will fail to meet expectations early on
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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Sidebar: This in no way is meant to knock Luke but that's a flawed argument. It's very common to see LB's on bad teams rack up tackles because the guys up front aren't making plays and the defense funnels to the MLB who gets a who bunch of tackles 5-6 yards down the field.
That, and defensive tackles (even really good ones) don't rack up the stats anyway.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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I wonder how instinctive people think you need to be to play NT. . .
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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I wonder how instinctive people think you need to be to play NT. . .
He's not a natural NT. That's another issue.

You need to have a killer instinct, or at least enjoy being physical at the point, and be able to keep your technique, leverage, and balance while battling intensely.

He wasn't very consistent at doing that at Memphis.

Two things will define his NFL career:

1) His willingness to put in the hard work to learn how to play DL in the NFL

2) The effectiveness of his coaches/position coaches/veteran teammates.

How that translates to where he'll be drafted is anyone's guess. He's got a lot of pure physical talent. His interviews were likely crucial. I personally don't like prospects who don't have good film, especially if they are clearly more gifted than the competition.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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I wonder how instinctive people think you need to be to play NT. . .
Definitely when you're playing as that coveted 1/3 tech in which Poe is being highly regarded for his versatility in that aspect. I don't only mean lack of instincts necessarily with his diagnosis skills, but also being able to locate the ball and not take yourself out of plays. However, with more experience he should improve in this area. But just a growing number of reasons why, despite his impressive combine, he shouldn't be in the discussion as top 10 talent in this draft. Hell, I think he even was #3 on a big board recently on this site
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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I wonder how instinctive people think you need to be to play NT. . .
Having good instincts is essential in the trenches. Watching tape can help pick nuances of an opponent, but there are ways a guy leans on you, how he punches and steps and so on that instinctive players are able to pick, and it makes them a hair quicker than less instinctive players. Instincts are often the biggest difference between the best players and the merely good ones.
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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He's the defensive version of Bruce Campbell.
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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He's the defensive version of Bruce Campbell.
The thing is? The defensive version of Bruce Campbell can be a great player. Playing offense, particularly offensive line, is about technique and precision. Playing defense, particularly defensive line, one can do a lot with physicality and effort until technique catches up with you.

Other than quarterbacks, offensive tackles are probably the position that needs to be most consistent in assignments an execution, defensive tackles are quite possibly the position that needs to be least consistent about assignments and execution.

Wasn't Jason Pierre-Paul the defensive version of Bruce Campbell, anyway?
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
He's the defensive version of Bruce Campbell.
Oh come on. You cannot be serious with this now.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. This happens EVERY YEAR after the combine, but rein it in a bit. That is ridiculous.
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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defensive tackles are quite possibly the position that needs to be least consistent about assignments and execution.

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