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Old 03-01-2012, 02:44 AM    (permalink
Mr. Goosemahn
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Originally Posted by Ness View Post
Did you see the episode before last? The guy named Sean had arguably the worst death yet. It was gruesome.
Edit: Lotta spoilers!

Yeah, but that was because Herschel shot him first. He was just laying on the ground and got eaten. It was gruesome, sure, but the zombies didn't really cause it. I want something like when the zombies invaded the camp back in season one and they killed a bunch of people, as well as infecting others.

I dunno, I just feel that there should always be an impending sense of death by zombies, and the farm doesn't provide it. I want it to feel more claustrophobic. Good zombie movies do that. Malls, houses, all those places feel like jails, where the characters rarely stay outside for extended periods of time because they'll die. On the farm, they're out and about all the time, and drive off to towns and stuff. Doesn't seem they consider the zombies to be really dangerous. They captured and controlled like a dozen of them ffs, like pets.

Right now, the main issue on the show is having the other people not find the farm, with the zombies being a secondary threat. Zombies should be biggest threat, IMO, and it hasn't really been like that at all this season, except for the first episode. Last season they had to escape from the zombies to survive. This season, they're all safe in the farm, and only get into trouble when they go to the town. You'd think they'd learn and would stop going, but no. **** safety and staying alive, Lori needs to know if she's pregnant!

That being said, the show has good production, and it's still at a point where things can improve. I just want the farm and town to run out of supplies so they're forced to go elsewhere for good.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:50 AM    (permalink
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Also if you hate the farm, you are going to hate the location they go to next - assuming they follow the comics, because they stay there a lot longer.
Well, that doesn't sound promising.

I just hope they are somewhere where they can't be roaming free all the time, that's my main problem with the farm.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:53 AM    (permalink
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..............

I'm killing a kitten thats it.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:56 AM    (permalink
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Except I'm not the one trying to make an objective argument based off something that is subjective in nature. I don't think it's a stretch to say that a show is considered good by the majority that witness it in it's domestic origin based on higher number of viewership and the majority of reviews being positive. This leads to a consensus opinion, not fact. Which I wouldn't try to prove anyways based on what I said in my first sentence. I feel like I've had to explain this five straight times.

Your attempt at an analogy was terrible because it had to do with completely different circumstances. The subject being talked about had to do with people being entertained by a television program, not making hard moral and ethic decisions. That is why it sucked, because the variables are so far towards the other end of the spectrum.

I'm not changing my argument, which was always based on opinion, not fact. The tune is still the same. The hilarious thing is that you still fail to comprehend the point I've tried to make. Other posters like phlysac have at least understood the perspective I was coming from, even if he didn't agree. This isn't Argumentum ad populum, which you are trying to accuse me if implementing, when again, my approach has to do with taste and opinion, not objectivity, logic, or fact because measuring something subjective in those regards wouldn't make sense in the first place. Never once did I say The Walking Dead/The Big Bang Theory is viewed by a lot of people and has highly rated reviews therefore it must be good. I did however say this as my opening statement about The Big Bang Theory and then The Walking Dead following:


I don't see how that is the same as your statement here I'm quoting:



This tells me you have completely misunderstood what I've said this entire time. My argument was never based on facts regarding something subjective. Not to mention it wasn't just about the number of views that a show received. I already gave you an example of how that alone doesn't work (The Jersey Shore). The Walking Dead and The Big Bang Theory both have high viewings and and good reviews based on the majority of people that have taken the time to review the program. The same can't be said about a show like The Jersey Shore, which has high viewings, but the reviews are terrible.

And you never answered my question as to what your basis was for your conclusion that it was considered a bad show by the majority of people that have watched it, or reviewed it.


It doesn't matter though. A lot of people enjoy both shows. Both are highly watched and the majority for both shows has been positive. No for the 100th time this does not equate to me saying that the show is factually good. It does mean that the majority of folks that have watched the show and reviewed it have found it entertaining and well produced overall. If you don't like the show, that's fine of course. But let's keep in mind that stance doesn't support the majority that have watched and reviewed the show themselves.
I have stated, LITERALLY a hundred times in this thread why this show is bad. Tune in next week and I will continue to do so, I do it on a weekly basis for ***** sake. And my god, read my last post and tell me I didn't get it. All your points were already made by me well before your last big post. How about you explain to me, not any critics why this show is good. You have dodged that since you started this stupid argument.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:58 AM    (permalink
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You are correct, I am having trouble understanding what it is you are or are not saying at this point, I have been since we started this stupid argument but lets go over it. So lets see where we are. The show has a high rating, meaning alot of people are tuning in, which you then state that people who watch it must be enjoying it. Sure for arguments sake lets go along with that despite the majority of people in this thread stating they think the show isn't anything spectacular yet tune in on a weekly basis, I'll just let you have it. Then you say that despite the consensus being that the show is good among the people watching, that does not make it an objective truth. Ok are we on the same page still? I think so, I think I may be getting the picture here. So let me ask politely what the **** you are arguing about since I have already made this point to begin with
I've already said several times that I wasn't measuring both shows based on high viewership on it's own. I gave you various links to actual reviews from a large number of people. Certainly larger than this message board. And I already said that I was talking about the majority opinion regarding both shows based on high viewings and overall positive reviews, which in essence leads to an overall positive television program...based on the majority opinion. No facts here.

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Your original point was that if it really had so many plot holes and inconsistencies than it wouldnt be on the air.....yet here we are.
I didn't say this. I said if the show was truly terrible why hasn't it been pulled off the air yet. I never said it in conjunction with having plot holes and inconsistencies. I said every show has that (Like Star Trek The Next Generation did), but it still managed to be an entertaining program. You can have a television show that is really minimal on continuity issues and plot holes, but if it isn't interesting, then it will get the plug pulled. So that was never "my point" at all.

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So yes I am confused. I am confused just exactly what you are trying to ******* say here because after all is said and done, you brought up a point of saying how there is a consensus that the show is good only to refute it and say we shouldn't objectively base truth on the consensus, which was MY ******* POINT TO BEGIN WITH ALL ALONG.
Nothing was ever refuted. I never ever altered what I was talking about. The main point all along has been the public opinion of both programs, which was always based on subjectivity, not fact.

"There is a consensus is that the show is good".

This does not necessarily mean:

"The show is good" as if that were an objective truth that could not be denied. Again, I never argued objectivity with subjective material.

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So I am sorry for being rude when someone says that I am the one not understanding. The consensus is that the show is good, great for ***** sake I don't care. Even with my "terrible" analogy I stated that the consensus does not make that true. I have listed almost a thousand times the weaknesses, plot holes, horrid writing, inconsistent character arcs way more than I'm sure people have cared to read in this thread. Enough people like it, good, great awesome. As you have said, doesnt make it a good show, which I have already stated. So for the love of god explain to me why I shouldn't be confused?
We could use that same logic you are telling me about plot holes, bad writing, inconsistent character arcs and say that it doesn't make the show bad either. Why? Because all of those factors are subjective itself in a subjective form of entertainment as it's basis.

The only thing I've been talking about this entire time, my point, is that the majority of people that have watched the show and reviewed the show (and TBBT) thought it was an entertaining program and well produced. They believed themselves that the show was good. As far as it being good to you or me, that is in itself up to the individual. As far as it being good or bad factually, that doesn't make sense, which is why I was never in the first place trying to make such a point. It would be impossible.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:01 AM    (permalink
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I have stated, LITERALLY a hundred times in this thread why this show is bad. Tune in next week and I will continue to do so, I do it on a weekly basis for ***** sake. And my god, read my last post and tell me I didn't get it. All your points were already made by me well before your last big post. How about you explain to me, not any critics why this show is good. You have dodged that since you started this stupid argument.
Was I ever asked why I thought the show was good by you? I don't recall. Please show me where you asked me this. If I didn't respond my mistake.

EDIT: Found it.

And why does my opinion hold higher weight above anyone else's?

In any case, I'll reply tomorrow. I've already posted enough here within the last hour or so.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:22 AM    (permalink
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I've already said several times that I wasn't measuring both shows based on high viewership on it's own. I gave you various links to actual reviews from a large number of people. Certainly larger than this message board. And I already said that I was talking about the majority opinion regarding both shows based on high viewings and overall positive reviews, which in essence leads to an overall positive television program...based on the majority opinion. No facts here.
Still not sure what point you are bringing to the table when I was already the one to bring this point up


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If people want simple popcorn television and thats what they enjoy thats one thing. However calling it good television is another.


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I didn't say this. I said if the show was truly terrible why hasn't it been pulled off the air yet. I never said it in conjunction with having plot holes and inconsistencies. I said every show has that (Like Star Trek The Next Generation did), but it still managed to be an entertaining program. You can have a television show that is really minimal on continuity issues and plot holes, but if it isn't interesting, then it will get the plug pulled. So that was never "my point" at all.
Actually....
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Im sorry but the show has far fewer genuine good things than the awful head scratching plot holes and character inconsistencies.
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Then it would have been off the air by now and not garner so much attention as it has since it's inception.
Oh you didn't say this exact thing right here? Oh ok then, my mistake.

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The only thing I've been talking about this entire time, my point, is that the majority of people that have watched the show and reviewed the show (and TBBT) thought it was an entertaining program and well produced. They believed themselves that the show was good. As far as it being good to you or me, that is in itself up to the individual. As far as it being good or bad factually, that doesn't make sense, which is why I was never in the first place trying to make such a point. It would be impossible.
Again what is your point, I already had agreed with you well before we started yet another argument based on this, look back and read it, if not read my quote I put in for you right here. I have listed so many, so many times why to me this show is bad. I think if nothing else, I should be known on this board as that guy who hates the walking dead. We have both been on the same page here my confusion still comes from what point you were originally trying to make. Originally as I did point out, and you did indeed make was that if there were so many plot holes it wouldnt be on the air. It exploded from there for me just saying TBBT is a terrible show, I did in fact give reasons why I thought it was bad, and without question I have given more than enough reasons why this show is bad. I understand there is no concrete fact about taste, I feel my hundreds of points regarding this show have done more than enough to solidify why I think it's bad. I'm with you on the whole argument, I am just lost as to what prompted you to start arguing with me about this if that was your only point, as I have since this thread started, backed up my statements about the show.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:25 AM    (permalink
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WTF are you two chuckle heads even arguing about :\

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Edit: Lotta spoilers!

Yeah, but that was because Herschel shot him first. He was just laying on the ground and got eaten. It was gruesome, sure, but the zombies didn't really cause it. I want something like when the zombies invaded the camp back in season one and they killed a bunch of people, as well as infecting others.

I dunno, I just feel that there should always be an impending sense of death by zombies, and the farm doesn't provide it. I want it to feel more claustrophobic. Good zombie movies do that. Malls, houses, all those places feel like jails, where the characters rarely stay outside for extended periods of time because they'll die. On the farm, they're out and about all the time, and drive off to towns and stuff. Doesn't seem they consider the zombies to be really dangerous. They captured and controlled like a dozen of them ffs, like pets.

Right now, the main issue on the show is having the other people not find the farm, with the zombies being a secondary threat. Zombies should be biggest threat, IMO, and it hasn't really been like that at all this season, except for the first episode. Last season they had to escape from the zombies to survive. This season, they're all safe in the farm, and only get into trouble when they go to the town. You'd think they'd learn and would stop going, but no. **** safety and staying alive, Lori needs to know if she's pregnant!

That being said, the show has good production, and it's still at a point where things can improve. I just want the farm and town to run out of supplies so they're forced to go elsewhere for good.
It's inevitable that something like you described happens in the last episode of the season. Obviously they don't want to leave the farm - it is a safe haven. So in order for them to leave, there needs to be some catalyst to start the exodus towards a new location, ie zombies breaking through. At least that is what I expect to happen.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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I thought the most recent episode was one of the best of the season. I had no issue with the writing at all. Most of the critics whose reviews I've read also had similar views, some even going as far to say that it was one of the best since the pilot.
I agree it's the best of the season. But the stale, moldy cracker you give a starving man will be the best damn thing he's eaten that week. The bar has been set so low . . .

Honestly, that entire episode comes from the idiotic decision to grab a guy off a fence post. That leg would have bled out before they made a mile, let alone getting all the way to the farm. Then they bring the guy a long way to "free" him without ever even talking to him to find out what he might know. This particular point pisses me off because the ******* kid seems just fine on the leg he had severely mangled. No limp, no infection, no nothing. So we have to assume there was a reasonably significant passage of time during which they did . . . what exactly? They didn't talk to him, apparently. I'm sure while he was locked in the barn he didn't bother trying to tell anyone he would help them, recognized Herschel and went to school with Maggie. I suppose they bound and gagged him and fed him all his meals through a straw. That makes more sense than anything else they have going on, so whatever . . .

Then they ignore the fact that zombies are walking around INSIDE the locked compound and continue with their dumbass plan to dump the kid there anyway. Investigating the place makes it immediately obvious it's a zombie-ridden camp that used to be a safe haven compound of sorts.

They then proceed to have a knock down, drag out fight like there's no concern that walkers might be around, despite the fact that there were a few in there already. And the surprise . . . oh the surprise they both seem to express when a boatload of zombies pour out of the building. Deaf zombies, it would seem, as they only woke when a wrench landed on their napping pile, rather than when Shane expended a round from a loud weapon.

We also have to accept the nonsense surrounding both jackholes basically getting covered in walker blood +/- rubbing their open wounds on grubby surfaces when only minutes before they arrived at the conclusion that all it takes now is scratches!

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Doesn't seem they consider the zombies to be really dangerous. They captured and controlled like a dozen of them ffs, like pets.
Goose has it right. The zombies are sparse and merely an inconvenience. Except when they take someone by surprise, which happens often when characters are absolute morons. Shane, Andrea and Daryl are the only characters savvy enough to keep out of trouble and keep the group safe, yet they've all been made out to be the villians of the group. Fun!

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This season, they're all safe in the farm, and only get into trouble when they go to the town. You'd think they'd learn and would stop going, but no. **** safety and staying alive, Lori needs to know if she's pregnant!
This is really the root of the problem. In order to create any story line the writers are forced to fabricate one stupid situation after another. Plain and simple. It's just one foolish move after another, none of which are necessary so everything about the show seems forced as a result.

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That being said, the show has good production, and it's still at a point where things can improve. I just want the farm and town to run out of supplies so they're forced to go elsewhere for good.
I agree. This is precisely the reason I still record and watch, and could very well be the reason the ratings are still ok. Like I said, there could be lots of people tuning in hoping for a turn around and instead feeling more and more frustrated with each passing episode.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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AMC is forcing The Walking Dead to be like Mad Men or Breaking Bad, which is heavy on drama. The problem is, Mad Men and Breaking Bad have amazing character development and characters you actually care about. You want them to succeed. You want them to be happy.

There are very few characters on this show with any kind of development at all. I'm actually rooting for the zombies. I want so many of these idiots to be eaten. I want the farm to be overrun with a massive zombie horde that stretches as far as the eye can see and I only want a few of them to survive.

T-Dog is the most worthless character on this show. Carl is a close second. Rick is a whiny *****. Most of the farm residents are useless. The only characters who are acknowledging that there is a zombie problem AT ALL are Shane, Andrea, and Daryl. They can live. Glenn can live too because he's kind of a badass on his own. I really don't care if the rest of these dumbasses are in another episode.

You can't make The Walking Dead into Breaking Bad or Mad Men. You've killed any chance of this show being a good drama already. You should focus now on it being pure zombie killing action 24/7. You can't have a drama based on characters no one cares about.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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You should focus now on it being pure zombie killing action 24/7. You can't have a drama based on characters no one cares about.
Dead on balls accurate.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Still not sure what point you are bringing to the table when I was already the one to bring this point up
When did you say that the majority of people that have watched the show and reviewed the show (and TBBT) thought it was an entertaining program and well produced? That was my "original" point.


Quote:
If people want simple popcorn television and thats what they enjoy thats one thing. However calling it good television is another.
This is all based on subjectivity. Whatever you define as "popcorn television" is irrelevant towards the majority since it's your own interpretation and based on opinion. And then anyone calling anything good television is again, subjective. You may not think something is good. That doesn't mean someone else feels the same way. Again, no facts here.


Quote:
Oh you didn't say this exact thing right here? Oh ok then, my mistake.
Yes your mistake. I didn't say that as my "original point" That was never my "original point" like you said it was. My "original point" was that the majority of people that have watched the show and reviewed the show (and TBBT) thought it was an entertaining program and well produced. That was my "original" point.

Even if you want to just use me responding to that sentence on it's own, you still misunderstand. You originally said this:

Quote:
Im sorry but the show has far fewer genuine good things than the awful head scratching plot holes and character inconsistencies.
And I disagreed that the show has far fewer genuine good things than the "head scratching plot holes and character inconsistencies" and said it would have been off the air by then. But that's different than you saying this:

Quote:
Your original point was that if it really had so many plot holes and inconsistencies than it wouldnt be on the air.....yet here we are.
Again, that wasn't my original point, but even if we ignore that, my response wasn't purely to "that the show wouldn't be on the air if it had so many plot holes and inconsistencies". It was to "the show has far fewer genuine good things than the awful head scratching plot holes and character inconsistencies" which is different than the fist sentence in quotations in this paragraph.


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Again what is your point, I already had agreed with you well before we started yet another argument based on this, look back and read it, if not read my quote I put in for you right here. I have listed so many, so many times why to me this show is bad. I think if nothing else, I should be known on this board as that guy who hates the walking dead. We have both been on the same page here my confusion still comes from what point you were originally trying to make. Originally as I did point out, and you did indeed make was that if there were so many plot holes it wouldnt be on the air. It exploded from there for me just saying TBBT is a terrible show, I did in fact give reasons why I thought it was bad, and without question I have given more than enough reasons why this show is bad. I understand there is no concrete fact about taste, I feel my hundreds of points regarding this show have done more than enough to solidify why I think it's bad. I'm with you on the whole argument, I am just lost as to what prompted you to start arguing with me about this if that was your only point, as I have since this thread started, backed up my statements about the show.
You just quoted my "original" point in your response.

Quote:
that the majority of people that have watched the show and reviewed the show (and TBBT) thought it was an entertaining program and well produced.
And if your response is "that doesn't mean a show is good" I could very well just respond to "that doesn't make s show bad". Again, there are no facts here about anything as far as television goes, just opinions. I was just saying that majority of people that have watched and reviewed the said programs have found them to be both entertaining and well made.

And yes you have listed why you think the show is bad. You are certainly entitled to your opinion like everyone else.
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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T-Dog is the most worthless character on this show. Carl is a close second. Rick is a whiny *****. Most of the farm residents are useless. The only characters who are acknowledging that there is a zombie problem AT ALL are Shane, Andrea, and Daryl. They can live. Glenn can live too because he's kind of a badass on his own. I really don't care if the rest of these dumbasses are in another episode.
t.
What are you talking out!?!?!?!? If T-Dog didn't exist how would we know if there were any black survivors?
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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What are you talking out!?!?!?!? If T-Dog didn't exist how would we know if there were any black survivors?
Cuz Morgan and his son were alive from the pilot, duh.
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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What are you talking out!?!?!?!? If T-Dog didn't exist how would we know if there were any black survivors?
I cannot remember when I last saw T-Dog in an episode.
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Intro to the 2nd half of this season
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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I'm pretty sure T-Dog is working for the zombies. Classic inside man kinda thing.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:42 AM    (permalink
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Just finished getting caught up. Made no sense at all that they took that kid off the fence post when quite possibly the biggest moral compass (Herschel) of a show filled with moral compasses wanted to just off the kid and gtfo.

And, yeah... Rolling into a FEMA camp and finding out there are zombies there then proceeding to drive in and shut the gate behind them before nonchalantly poking around the camp before getting into fisticuffs was about the dumbest thing since Sophia went missing.

I really wasn't bothered by the lapse in time. I was happy with it. Wish they'd done that with the stupid ******* "Carl got shot while trying to pet a ******* goddamn deer" angle.

I'd like to see someone cut this show so we know who the women are, but never actually see them on screen (aside from maybe Maggie) or at least never give them any lines. How much better would the show be if they did that?! The women bring the show down soooo much.

I've hated the Rick character, but he's coming around this season. Starting to join Shane, Daryl (who fell off but is getting back on the good group), and Glen (maybe Maggie) as the only non-worthless characters on the show.

I really hope Dale dies soon. He's become just so bad and worthless. No one likes him and he just stirs **** up that never goes anywhere (if he was stirring up **** that went somewhere I might hold some value in him).
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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You can't have the only psychic character in the group killed off, how would they ever be able to predict plot lines that no one would ever know about at a convenient enough time to move a plot forward?

Although it seems that in recent weeks Lori has developed this ability as well when she just predicted Shane was evil after saving her.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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LOL @ Jvig and Ness. You guys sound like a couple of old women. You do realize that you both are arguing about a stupid television show about zombies, correct?
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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LOL @ Jvig and Ness. You guys sound like a couple of old women. You do realize that you both are arguing about a stupid television show about zombies, correct?
it matters damn you! I stopped once we were arguing about the same thing, it went nowhere. So I'm just going to go back to having fun with the show and enjoying it's awesome characters and amazing storyline.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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When is the soonest that Carl can get eaten?
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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a stupid television show about zombies
I forgot that there were zombies in this show, as they rarely show up.
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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Can you tear someones stomach open with your bare hands? I have to say, no you cannot.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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