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Old 03-05-2012, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jvig43 View Post
4/11 is not a very good ratio so I am a little confused about why your arguing for it.
I was going to say the same thing actually. When you can take 7 episodes away from a show and that has no bearing on it at all, something is wrong.

And thank god T-Dogg isn't on the show more. He's a stereotypical character with no depth or purpose at all.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
The story-line is different enough, that it would be difficult to utilize similar character-development.

Shane, for example, was killed by Carl (age 7) back at the camp before they even meet Herschel. So all of the storylines that exist to develop the characters in the show that involve Shane (most of them) never occured in the comics.
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On top of that T-Dog (as he exists in the show), Daryl and Merle don't exist in the comic either.
Ok, thanks.

I just wanted to be sure I'm getting it right when I dump on the writers. It's a shame, since AMC has been cranking out some killer dramatic writing lately. I am really having a hard time with the huge misses on their part in this show. It's unfortunate, because I like the show, love zombie stories, and find the production quality to be stellar. Basically, everything is lined up for this series to be awesome and they continue to drag it down with some major holes +/- issues that are very tough to dismiss.

I'll keep trying, though. *sigh*
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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It would be hard to find a better drama out there than Breaking Bad, and Mad Men is no slouch either, but I said it a few pages ago and it still rings true: you can't have a successful drama on a show with characters you don't care about. And that's kind of what is going on here.

The production is amazing, the zombies look awesome, the landscape/scenes are beautifully shot.. but that doesn't make a show. The characters do. And they're lacking.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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4/11 is not a very good ratio so I am a little confused about why your arguing for it.
It's not 4/11. I said at least four episodes had significant changes in the situation the characters were in. Four had significant changes in the relationships of the characters or character development. Episode five had this a little bit too. Character development and relationships can be just as significant change as a situational or location change. So really, it is 8/11 that had significant changes and one that acted as a precursor for a future plot.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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Ok, thanks.

I just wanted to be sure I'm getting it right when I dump on the writers. It's a shame, since AMC has been cranking out some killer dramatic writing lately. I am really having a hard time with the huge misses on their part in this show. It's unfortunate, because I like the show, love zombie stories, and find the production quality to be stellar. Basically, everything is lined up for this series to be awesome and they continue to drag it down with some major holes +/- issues that are very tough to dismiss.

I'll keep trying, though. *sigh*
When Frank Darabont was the primary developer/screen-writer/producer of the show (Season-1) it was pretty true to the evolution of the comic. It has been entirely different since then.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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Again unless the character development was something that we care about, or changes the character from ******* terrible to even more terrible, it really doesn't matter. These characters blow, they really are some of the worst I have ever seen on pretty much anything. Like others have said, the production is great, I even think outside of a few actors the acting is pretty good as well. It just doesn't matter when we have to watch a show where I am more excited to see a plain jane zombie than listen to boring characters get into another drawn out and useless drama fight. This show literally should have just been called the talking dead all along. And thats not even my biggest problem with the show. I don't mind watching dialogue driven shows / movies. But not when we have ****** characters who ***** about every little thing they can because the writers think that bickering = great drama television.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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See, I'm not one of those people who hate the characters. I actually like Rick a lot because he is what a lot of people would be like if this actually happened. Most people are not win at all cost, kill or be killed, ends justify the means type of people. In a Zombie apocalypse, most would try keep their moral compass but it would be a constant struggle.

And then there is Shane. He is another realistic character because in this situation, there would be people who become him. People who are willing to lie, cheat, steal, and kill just to stay alive. And there would be people like Dale who would try with all their might to hold onto the world they once knew. They would try to convince others to remain civilized.

I actually like most of the characters because they are actually representations of what people would be like in this scenario. Sure, T-Dog and the bald woman are kind of worthless, Lori is a moron, and Carl just needs to die. But the rest are good, realistic characters.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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The thing is, the only characters people have REALLY had problems with are Lori, Carl, T-Dogg, Carol, and Andrea.

I don't necessarily think how Rick acts is how someone in his position would act in this scenario, but I get it. I understand it. I still think that if you're going to be a leader you need to lead and not ***** and whine about leading instead. And I think people, for the most part, like Glenn/Daryl/Shane too.

We're not disagreeing on which characters suck. We all pretty much agree to that already.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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I say Rick sucks, because in reality, if anyone acted that way it wouldn't be a struggle, they would just be dead. I mean until Rick came along Shane was doing a fine job with the group, no one started dying until Rick came along which makes me wonder why this is "his" group in the first place.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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I don't think T-Dog and Carol suck per-say, I just think they are worthless because they don't have many lines. They could (and probably should) kill her because they already killer her husband and daughter.

Lori... she is a dumb *****. But is that unrealistic that there would be a dumb ***** or two walking around in a zombie apocalypse? She is realistic in the fact that as a Southern married woman, she fits the traditional role of a woman (cooking, cleaning, raising children). She had a strong husband to take care of things in the pre-zombie world and is now trying to cling to that.

The only two characters I really think the writers screwed up on are Carl and Andrea. With Carl, even though he is young, he does the dumbest things that I would never have done when I was 9 or 10. Plus he is a little punk. With Andrea, the writers are just inconsistent. She wants to die, no she wants to live. She wants to leave with Shane. Wait, maybe not. But I hope they continue to develop her in the mold of Dale. With him gone, the group does need a moral compass. If they can transform her into that role, I would be perfectly fine with her.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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What is Daryl's 40 time? He showed good reaction time and had a great tackle on the zombie, plus he has that killer instinct you look for in a survivor of a zombie infested world.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Andrea may suck, but the actress that plays her is hot as **** for a 40 year old woman. Laurie Holden I think is her name. And she looks that good during a zombie apocalypse! I don't mean to sound like a **** but her hair and facial structure is flawless. She's a bit on the skinny side without curves, but you win some you lose some. Judge me!

Shane knew to pipe that piece of ass while he was still alive.

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Old 03-05-2012, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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What a stupid ending. In this big ass field with low grass a zombie sneaks behind Dale? Wouldn't it be feeding on the cow still instead of practicing the art of ninjitsu? The whole bit with Carl randomly walking in was just stupid. So no one makes an extra effort to watch the only kid in camp after the other child, Sofia, gets lost and dies?

Then there is the part about Rick not killing the guy who was trying to snipe and kill him a few days prior at the bar. It's one thing for Dale to try to hold on to his humanity, but Rick already saw what that group was capable of when he was in town and shot those other guys. It wasn't even a hard choice considering that he was just trying to kill three people a few episodes prior. Now he's an innocent kid that needs a chance to prove himself? WTF?

It's like they're thinking up plot twists instead of having the characters do logical things. Last night really hammered home why the Rick of the show is nowhere near as good as Rick in the comics. In the comics Rick makes hard decisions all the time, and he isn't afraid to make a hard or inhumane choice if it makes sense and protects people.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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What this show should have done was a LOST type thing. Season 2 should have started Flashbacks to before Zombies ran a muck and led up to when they joined with the group.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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I mean until Rick came along Shane was doing a fine job with the group, no one started dying until Rick came along which makes me wonder why this is "his" group in the first place.
This was essentially the question made during camp in the comic. Of course, Carl then shot Shane for fighting with his dad.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Please tell me Carl died.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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Please tell me Carl died.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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This was essentially the question made during camp in the comic. Of course, Carl then shot Shane for fighting with his dad.
And that sounds awesome ( I havent read the comics). But the fact that it wasnt even a debate in a show about debating is ridiculous. Why focus on these unimportant ridiculous arguments when you have pure gold of "Why did we ever make Rick the leader in the first place?" . That hasn't even been explored, it just happened and now everyone drops the line "this is Ricks group" like its some sort of fact.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Carl is annoying me! They should punish him. No leaving the tent unless there is a zombie attack. Damn kid is all over the place. He is in the rafters above the barn and then in the forest. Stay where your parents can see you kid!
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Carl is annoying me! They should punish him. No leaving the tent unless there is a zombie attack. Damn kid is all over the place. He is in the rafters above the barn and then in the forest. Stay where your parents can see you kid!
At least they had the decency to not discuss the difficulty Rick had trying to shoot the kid in the bard with Carl in hearing distance. They sent him into the tent while they were standing right next to it. lmfao
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Just read the wiki. Carl is all kinds of fail.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Just read the wiki. Carl is all kinds of fail.
Just read it as well. You can definitely start to see the anti-social personality disorder. Do you think they replaced him getting his eye shot out with him getting shot by Otis or is he still going to get shot in the eye?

Either way.. he sucks.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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I don't blame the kid playing Carl for being an awful actor.. he's just a kid.. but I do blame the writing staff for making that the worst character I think I've ever seen. Ugh. Just thinking about Carl makes me wish I was a zombie. I'd recruit a bunch of zombie friends and we'd storm the camp JUST to off this kid. We'd leave everyone else alone.

Or maybe I can just recruit the ninja zombie from this last episode and get him to do it for me.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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I don't blame the kid playing Carl for being an awful actor.. he's just a kid.. but I do blame the writing staff for making that the worst character I think I've ever seen. Ugh. Just thinking about Carl makes me wish I was a zombie. I'd recruit a bunch of zombie friends and we'd storm the camp JUST to off this kid. We'd leave everyone else alone.

Or maybe I can just recruit the ninja zombie from this last episode and get him to do it for me.
Darryl already took care of him..
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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If the writers don't have to operate from a world that makes sense, why do I? In my scenario he is still alive (well, he's a zombie..) and he will still kill Carl for me. Or maybe he trained an entire legion of ninja zombies.

Damnit, I want Carl to die. That's what I meant.
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