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Old 11-09-2011, 11:05 AM    (permalink
WCH
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Originally Posted by bhaarat316 View Post
Why is it Joe Pa all day err day? Why is no one talking about the other 3? The two admins who knew and should have went to the police.

Yeah he didn't do enough, but he did go to his chain of command and let them know. If he wasn't the figure he is, than this would all be focused on the admins.
At least two of the admins are already facing criminal charges. JoePa isn't, and probably won't. Also, the graduate assistant (McQueary) is getting much worse press than JoePa.

Let's not pretend that Paterno is somehow being treated bad by a bunch of meanies.

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Old 11-09-2011, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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Is it reaching to not jump to conclusions on something when there is an alarming shortage of facts out there? If all the facts come out and it looks like Joe was ridiculously complicit in this coverup and that everything that the national media seems to KNOW is correct ends up being true, I'll be the first in line to own up but until the facts all come out and we get the whole story, I'm going to side with the guy that has 5 decades worth of evidence that he's done everything the right way.
So you're telling me you don't think he was wrong for allowing Sandusky to bring little children to his practices anfter fully knowing what that man had did in his past?
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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And telling the man who oversees university police doesn't qualify as telling the police.
Of course not. This is a witch hunt. JoePa can't be considered a witch if he's seen a someone who sees the best in people and refuses to believe 2nd hand eyewitness accounts and nevertheless reports them. No. That won't work. He's the mafia don and FORCED the police to investigate poorly, DA to not charge, and then ordered the hit to take him out. Perfect. Get your pitchforks ready.

Oh I have a better idea. Lets question how Graham Spanier is still the president of PSU with BOT backing as "firing not on the table". I'm sure with your creative minds we can come up with some way to make Spanier some sort of mythical demon that burns villages with his stare.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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Why is it Joe Pa all day err day? Why is no one talking about the other 3? The two admins who knew and should have went to the police.

Yeah he didn't do enough, but he did go to his chain of command and let them know. If he wasn't the figure he is, than this would all be focused on the admins.
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Originally Posted by WCH View Post
At least two of the admins are already facing criminal charges. JoePa isn't, and probably won't. Also, the graduate assistant (McQueary) is getting much worse press than JoePa.

Let's not pretend that Paterno is somehow being treated bad by a bunch of meanies.
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

JoePa knew what Sandusky was in 1998.

JoePa runs barter town and what he says goes. Even this latest statement shows it.

The problem for psu now is that the world is going over them with a fine toothed comb and are going to find a lot of dirt.

Also the fact that there were no major violations over his tenure tells me that he runs a tightly controlled ship where he is in control of everything. I.e. the ignorance tact wrt Sandusky isn't going to cut it.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Again, as I've mentioned before, Joe might be getting more publicity because of his celebrity status, he is also getting more support then others as well.

Thousands aren't showing up to show support at Curley's house. Nor Spanier's. Nor McQueary's.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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So you're telling me you don't think he was wrong for allowing Sandusky to bring little children to his practices anfter fully knowing what that man had did in his past?
Read this article: http://nittanylionsden.com/2011-arti...e-paterno.html

Fact is, its all speculation. I know this. If someone came to me and told me my friend of 30+ years was a pedophile, I wouldn't believe it. I applaud him for even going to the proper authorities. If the proper authorities came back to me and told me that this wasn't true, I'd be relieved. Why would Paterno have any reason to question them? This is why I want Paterno to really talk and why we really need to find out the rest of the story. If Paterno was told by Curley/Schultz/Spanier that they looked into it and found that they really were horsing around, why would Paterno really have any reason to believe otherwise?

Like I said, if, when all the facts come out, its blatantly obvious that Paterno was complicit in the cover-up and that he had first-hand knowledge of these molestations, I'll be the first to throw him under the bus. Until then, I will continue to await all the facts and refrain from assuming the worst.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Nittany Lions Den might not be the most objective source. Haha.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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Of course not. This is a witch hunt. JoePa can't be considered a witch if he's seen a someone who sees the best in people and refuses to believe 2nd hand eyewitness accounts and nevertheless reports them. No. That won't work. He's the mafia don and FORCED the police to investigate poorly, DA to not charge, and then ordered the hit to take him out. Perfect. Get your pitchforks ready.

Oh I have a better idea. Lets question how Graham Spanier is still the president of PSU with BOT backing as "firing not on the table". I'm sure with your creative minds we can come up with some way to make Spanier some sort of mythical demon that burns villages with his stare.
I'm sure this is tough for you, but the sarcasm is unbecoming. The fact that the BOT is supporting Spanier is unacceptable. But, when it comes down to it, the BOT should be giving the ax to anyone in power as of 1999 or so, and that probably includes some of their own. People in power protect their power. Nobody in power at PSU or Second Mile should remain if they were around during the 98 case or the 02 case, as they are implicated in the cover up. They can't possibly see the details (TWICE!?!?) of these incidents and find any reasonble excuse as to why Sandusky (may he burn in hell) was allowed to maintain positions within their organization or access to facilities.

It's not a witch hunt. They have a mountain of evidence against Sandusky and 20+ victims have come forward. There is no excuse for the lack of action by the people close to the situation. Sandusky is an abomination. Those in power within the organizations he used to perpetrate his crimes are a disgrace.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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It's an article from a Penn State blog labeled an alum's defense of Joe Paterno. Surely that's not a bias article.

Also when he states and I quote, "I just want to start off and say that I have zero inside information here and I don't know any more than anything that's been reported.", then the article is useless. It's not speculation that Sandusky was at practice with little children and it's not speculation that Paterno already knew that McQueary had caught him raping a poor child in the PSU bathrooms. Those are facts and it's unbelieveable that Paterno still let that monster roam the campus. How anyone can try to defend any of these people is beyond words.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Nittany Lions Den might not be the most objective source. Haha.
But if you read it with an OPEN mind, you might take something from it. The point is that there are little facts out there and people are taking what little there is, and assuming the worst. What's wrong with taking what little facts there are and assuming the best? There's a reason CNN is barely showing any coverage of this story. Its because they deal with facts. Until more come out, its all just pure speculation.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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Read this article: http://nittanylionsden.com/2011-arti...e-paterno.html

Fact is, its all speculation. I know this. If someone came to me and told me my friend of 30+ years was a pedophile, I wouldn't believe it. I applaud him for even going to the proper authorities. If the proper authorities came back to me and told me that this wasn't true, I'd be relieved. Why would Paterno have any reason to question them? This is why I want Paterno to really talk and why we really need to find out the rest of the story. If Paterno was told by Curley/Schultz/Spanier that they looked into it and found that they really were horsing around, why would Paterno really have any reason to believe otherwise?

Like I said, if, when all the facts come out, its blatantly obvious that Paterno was complicit in the cover-up and that he had first-hand knowledge of these molestations, I'll be the first to throw him under the bus. Until then, I will continue to await all the facts and refrain from assuming the worst.
Paterno (and many, many others) had plenty of reason to question them. There are disappearing DAs, destroyed harddrives, multiple witnesses to mutliple transgressions, and plenty of very bizarre occurances. They were all clearly ignored. This isn't a case where you refuse to believe your friend is a racist b/c he uses the N-word too aggressively. This is a case where you refuse to believe your friend is a racist after he's lynched a few brothers from the trees on PSU grounds.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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Someone please tell me that this is just a nightmare.

I would GLADLY take a Recruiting Violation scandal over this.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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Paterno (and many, many others) had plenty of reason to question them. There are disappearing DAs, destroyed harddrives, multiple witnesses to mutliple transgressions, and plenty of very bizarre occurances. They were all clearly ignored. This isn't a case where you refuse to beleive your friend is a racist b/c he uses the N-word too aggressively. This is a case where you refuse to beleive your friend is a racist after he's lynched a few brothers from the trees on PSU grounds.
The DA disappeared in 2005, 7 years after the initial 1998 investigation began. There was also ZERO indication at the time that it was at all related to Sandusky's case and its not like it is the only case the DA was working on...

As for all the other transgressions, the point remains that only one got to Paterno and he handled it in the way he was supposed to. I'm speculating that he was informed an investigation was held and Sandusky was cleared. Just like everyone else is speculating that none was held and Joe just never asked about it again. How is that any different? There's no proof of either.

BTW, if you haven't figured it out, I wrote that article.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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The DA disappeared in 2005, 7 years after the initial 1998 investigation began. There was also ZERO indication at the time that it was at all related to Sandusky's case and its not like it is the only case the DA was working on...

As for all the other transgressions, the point remains that only one got to Paterno and he handled it in the way he was supposed to. I'm speculating that he was informed an investigation was held and Sandusky was cleared. Just like everyone else is speculating that none was held and Joe just never asked about it again. How is that any different? There's no proof of either.

BTW, if you haven't figured it out, I wrote that article.
He handled it the way he was supposed to by the law. Did he handle it the way he was supposed to as a father, grandfather, or someone whose football program didn't have a ton to lose? NO.

If Joe didn't know a coverup took place he went senile a lot longer ago than anyone ever realized.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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Ok, this will be very painful, but I HAVE to say this.

Yes, Joe Paterno is getting a lot of heat because of his celebrity status, but he is getting a lot of support because of that also.

If Joe was a 1st-year coach, do you think there would be thousands gathering around his house?
Maybe to lynch him.


Joe should NOT be absolved of this. Even if he didn't get the whole story, the mere mention of inproper conduct should have forced Joe to put pressure on Curley to launch a thorough investigation into this matter.

Simply mentioning the incident of this magnitude to the superiors is NOWHERE NEAR enough.
IDK how he did not get the full story from McQueary. I mean how could he not, did all McQuery say is "Jerry Sandusky Penn state showers boy" and leave JoePa's house.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Someone please tell me that this is just a nightmare.

I would GLADLY take a Recruiting Violation scandal over this.
Yeah, it makes selling their own memorabilia for tats and having the coach lie about it on an NCAA form seem pretty small potatoes.

My PSU friends loved giving me crap about it with some holier than thou stuff, but I can't razz them now. This is on a completely different planet of wrong.

These are the kinds of problems that you get when you put a man on a pedestal and think that he can do no wrong. You are always going to be disappointed.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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It's not a witch hunt. They have a mountain of evidence against Sandusky and 20+ victims have come forward. There is no excuse for the lack of action by the people close to the situation. Sandusky is an abomination. Those in power within the organizations he used to perpetrate his crimes are a disgrace.
Ignoring the points made in posts is unbecoming as well. I am not defending ANYONE who has been charged. Sandusky is a bastard who deserves to rot in hell. The administration deserves to be fired, jailed, and admonished for the rest of their lives for allowing Sandusky to do this to children when they had the power to stop it.

What evidence are you gentlemen (ha!) pointing to that indicts JoePa on anything? The comments in this thread are simply pissing on him because they have the opportunity. Outlandish claims about him being a mafia don making prosecutors disappear and hiding Sandusky away allowing him free reign. He reported what he had HEARD to the head of campus security (whom would have jurisdiction in a crime committed on University grounds) as well as his direct superior. He has been CLEARED by the investigation and by the Grand Jury report. So up until this point we have assumptions in this thread.

Funniest part is a lot of the events taking place are doing a time when PSU administrators were asking JoePa to retire and when he had as minimal pull as anytime during his tenure. You are right though I know better. I should of recognized the trolls from the get-go and just ignored the thread rather than attempt to point at the complete lack of facts and the runaway train of slanderous public opinion.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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Read this article: http://nittanylionsden.com/2011-arti...e-paterno.html

Fact is, its all speculation. I know this. If someone came to me and told me my friend of 30+ years was a pedophile, I wouldn't believe it. I applaud him for even going to the proper authorities. If the proper authorities came back to me and told me that this wasn't true, I'd be relieved. Why would Paterno have any reason to question them? This is why I want Paterno to really talk and why we really need to find out the rest of the story. If Paterno was told by Curley/Schultz/Spanier that they looked into it and found that they really were horsing around, why would Paterno really have any reason to believe otherwise?

Like I said, if, when all the facts come out, its blatantly obvious that Paterno was complicit in the cover-up and that he had first-hand knowledge of these molestations, I'll be the first to throw him under the bus. Until then, I will continue to await all the facts and refrain from assuming the worst.
Except that he was very well aware of what happened in 1998, so this is the SECOND time he was made aware of something Sandusky did with children. AND HE STILL LET HIM ON THE CAMPUS AFTER THAT WITH CHILDREN. For ***** sake grizzle, give it a rest.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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The DA disappeared in 2005, 7 years after the initial 1998 investigation began. There was also ZERO indication at the time that it was at all related to Sandusky's case and its not like it is the only case the DA was working on...

As for all the other transgressions, the point remains that only one got to Paterno and he handled it in the way he was supposed to. I'm speculating that he was informed an investigation was held and Sandusky was cleared. Just like everyone else is speculating that none was held and Joe just never asked about it again. How is that any different? There's no proof of either.

BTW, if you haven't figured it out, I wrote that article.
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Ignoring the points made in posts is unbecoming as well. I am not defending ANYONE who has been charged. Sandusky is a bastard who deserves to rot in hell. The administration deserves to be fired, jailed, and admonished for the rest of their lives for allowing Sandusky to do this to children when they had the power to stop it.

What evidence are you gentlemen (ha!) pointing to that indicts JoePa on anything? The comments in this thread are simply pissing on him because they have the opportunity. Outlandish claims about him being a mafia don making prosecutors disappear and hiding Sandusky away allowing him free reign. He reported what he had HEARD to the head of campus security (whom would have jurisdiction in a crime committed on University grounds) as well as his direct superior. He has been CLEARED by the investigation and by the Grand Jury report. So up until this point we have assumptions in this thread.

Funniest part is a lot of the events taking place are doing a time when PSU administrators were asking JoePa to retire and when he had as minimal pull as anytime during his tenure. You are right though I know better. I should of recognized the trolls from the get-go and just ignored the thread rather than attempt to point at the complete lack of facts and the runaway train of slanderous public opinion.
I'm not trying to start a pissing match with either of you. I'm also not calling JoePa "guilty" of anything. The time frame of events is somewhat irrelevant since this monster has been operating his diddler ring for over a decade and has had mutliple run-ins over that time.

What I see as fact is simple - there were clear signs that this monster was not on the level. There were many odd occurances over that time that should have thrown major red flags to those in power within both organizations (and the police / authorities, too.) Everyone in power that ignored those signs should be removed from their positions. I don't really care if they ignored what was happening b/c they "couldn't believe it was true" or they outright wimped out. Whether that's JoePa or one of the janitors that supposedly feared they'd lose their job - their actions were shameful and they should be removed from their post.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Ignoring the points made in posts is unbecoming as well. I am not defending ANYONE who has been charged. Sandusky is a bastard who deserves to rot in hell. The administration deserves to be fired, jailed, and admonished for the rest of their lives for allowing Sandusky to do this to children when they had the power to stop it.

What evidence are you gentlemen (ha!) pointing to that indicts JoePa on anything? The comments in this thread are simply pissing on him because they have the opportunity. Outlandish claims about him being a mafia don making prosecutors disappear and hiding Sandusky away allowing him free reign. He reported what he had HEARD to the head of campus security (whom would have jurisdiction in a crime committed on University grounds) as well as his direct superior. He has been CLEARED by the investigation and by the Grand Jury report. So up until this point we have assumptions in this thread.

Funniest part is a lot of the events taking place are doing a time when PSU administrators were asking JoePa to retire and when he had as minimal pull as anytime during his tenure. You are right though I know better. I should of recognized the trolls from the get-go and just ignored the thread rather than attempt to point at the complete lack of facts and the runaway train of slanderous public opinion.
FACT: JoePa knew what Sandusky was charged with in 1998.
Very likely but not 100%: JoePa knew what Sandusky confessed to the mother of a boy.
FACT: Sandusky was pushed out after the investigation.
FACT: JoePa talked for 1 minute at Sandusky's retirement party.
Very likely but not 100%: JoePa pushed Sandusky out for being a pedo.
FACT: Despite the investigation and being pushed out, Sandusky had an office on campus and was given free reign to bring boys onto campus.

These are facts, according a GRAND JURY REPORT AND STATEMENTS BY BOTH JOEPA AND MCQUEARY. Granted, both JoePa and McQueary could be lying under oath. But I doubt it.

FACT: McQueary saw Sandusky raping a boy.
FACT: He told JoePa what he saw.
FACT: JoePa told the AD and the VP of Finance.
FACT: Sandusky kept his office and was scolded and told not to bring little boys on campus anymore.
FACT: No one reported the incident to police.
FACT: No one helped the boy.
FACT: Sandusky continued to rape after being caught.
FACT: JoePa knew of one damning incident and one completely horrible incident.
FACT: JoePa said he was shocked at the grand jury report.

WRT the last fact, JoePa either forgot the incidents or he is lying.

All of these people are complicit. I feel that all should be thrown into jail. Curley, Schultz, McQueary, and JoePa. There are more that need to be, including the rinky dink cops and DA's office in State College that let Sandusky off in 1998 after a FREAKING CONFESSION.

This was all about controlling a scandal and about massive egos and reputations. JoePa and/or PSU didn't want the tarnish of it's great defensive architect of 32 years being a pedo.

It blew up because Sandusky was a predator of the highest order and was brazen in his attacks. It took a HS wrestling coach to finally get his ass investigated by a non-local police force.

The reason we are all on JoePa about this is because he built PSU into national prominence. It was a rural state college when he got there. Now it's a nationally recognized university with a storied football program.

Most of the BoT are PSU alums and grew up with JoePa running the show. The AD Curley grew up in State College and played for JoePa.

You want to tell me that Curley didn't answer to Joe and not the other way around?

Some of you can bury your head in the sand and rally around an enabler, but enable he did. He knew what Sandusky was and tried to contain him instead of doing the right thing and calling the authorities.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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The reason we are all on JoePa about this is because he built PSU into national prominence. It was a rural state college when he got there. Now it's a nationally recognized university with a storied football program.

Actually, this isn't really true. JoePa's predecessor was a Hall of Famer Rip Engle and although not elite, Penn State was a solid program before Joe got there.

This is a bit off-topic and I appologize.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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Actually, this isn't really true. JoePa predessesor was a Hall of Famer Rip Engle and although not elite, Penn State was a solid program before Joe got there.

This is a bit off-topic and I appologize.
No, thank you for correcting me.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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FACT: JoePa knew what Sandusky was charged with in 1998. By "knew" the accounts of a grad student telling him what he saw and that he reported. Agreed.

Very likely but not 100%: JoePa knew what Sandusky confessed to the mother of a boy. Hearsay and what I'm referring to in using hearsay as evidence in the forum. You're reaching.

FACT: Sandusky was pushed out after the investigation. This would of been an administration decision as JoePa's power in the program was beginning to falter with Graham Spanier taking more power. Several reports of Spanier and administrators going to JoePa's house asking him to retire so they could replace him not more than 2 years later. But if the premise is that Sandusky was forced out by PSU (not JoePa in particular) agreed.

FACT: JoePa talked for 1 minute at Sandusky's retirement party.
Very likely but not 100%: JoePa pushed Sandusky out for being a pedo. I'll give you this one. Although under the same premise what would you have him do? Stab him with the steak knife at the dinner?

FACT: Despite the investigation and being pushed out, Sandusky had an office on campus and was given free reign to bring boys onto campus. As stated previously this would be an administration decision we are talking about a time when Spanier was increasing his power and a time when JoePa's own job was in question. You think a guy whom the administration would of had out the door first sign of trouble would be calling the shots?

FACT: McQueary saw Sandusky raping a boy. Agreed - hate McQueary for being a coward and not saving the boy and/or IMMEDIATELY calling the police.

FACT: He told JoePa what he saw.
FACT: JoePa told the AD and the VP of Finance.Correction - JoePa told the AD - the AD calling the HEAD OF CAMPUS SECURITY/Police for a meeting with JoePa where JoePa explained what McQueary had said. Campus security has jurisdiction over criminal matters committed on university grounds and thus JoePa "called the police".

FACT: No one reported the incident to police. JoePa reported it to the police whose jurisdiction it resided. This would be similiar to reporting a crime that occurred in your local neighborhood to the county police but then not reporting it as well with the state police.

FACT: No one helped the boy.McQ should of intervened and the police should of been waiting for Sandusky when he got out the shower. Not seeing how JoePa has ANYTHING to do with this one. Did you run out of evidence?

FACT: Sandusky continued to rape after being caught. Again - McQ should of intervened and the police should of been waiting for Sandusky when he got out the shower. Not seeing how JoePa has ANYTHING to do with this one. Did you run out of evidence?

FACT: JoePa knew of one damning incident and one completely horrible incident. JoePa HEARD of one incident and immediately reported it to campus security.

FACT: JoePa said he was shocked at the grand jury report. FACT: JoePa believes in the best in people and since nothing became of the investigation into Sandusky he is presumed what's the word... INNOCENT. Should JoePa have used his telepathy to work his way into Sandusky's mind to find out the truth?

WRT the last fact, JoePa either forgot the incidents or he is lying. [b]JoePa was TOLD he never SAW the incident and thus reported it to the police (campus police has jurisdiction) and his immediate superior.

All of these people are complicit. I feel that all should be thrown into jail.
Curley, Schultz, McQueary, and JoePa. There are more that need to be, including the rinky dink cops and DA's office in State College that let Sandusky off in 1998 after a FREAKING CONFESSION. I agree with every single thing you posted except for JoePa. He reported the incident he was told to his superior AND to the police whose jurisdiction was involved. After an unsuccesful investigation Sandusky was cleared and JoePa is to continue to treat the man as a convicted sex offender? The guy whom believes the best in people and taught his team the same ideals? He's not a hypocrite just believing in an idea that was extremely wrong in this case.

This was all about controlling a scandal and about massive egos and reputations. JoePa and/or PSU didn't want the tarnish of it's great defensive architect of 32 years being a pedo. Hearsay. JoePa didn't hide, sweep, control any of the situation. If you are referring to just PSU 10000% agreed. Newest reports say Spanier is on his way out and potentially charged as well.

It blew up because Sandusky was a predator of the highest order and was brazen in his attacks. It took a HS wrestling coach to finally get his ass investigated by a non-local police force.

The reason we are all on JoePa about this is because he built PSU into national prominence. It was a rural state college when he got there. Now it's a nationally recognized university with a storied football program.

Most of the BoT are PSU alums and grew up with JoePa running the show. The AD Curley grew up in State College and played for JoePa.

You want to tell me that Curley didn't answer to Joe and not the other way around? Back to hearsay again. You are REAAACHING without evidence try harder.

Some of you can bury your head in the sand and rally around an enabler, but enable he did. He knew what Sandusky was and tried to contain him instead of doing the right thing and calling the authorities.Hearsay. Are you capable of using evidence to build an argument?
Beginning to wonder if perhaps Joe's the one who led the case against JoePa his ability to use evidence to condemn someone is appalling.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Spanier expected to be gone. Breaking news / twitter . . . so who knows how reliable the "sources are" as it's a typical media "source close to" game.


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Old 11-09-2011, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Spanier expected to be gone. Breaking news / twitter . . . so who knows how reliable the "sources are" as it's a typical media "source close to" game.


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Also heard he was the leak to the New York Times article that broke around the press conference cancellation yesterday. Spanier's continued avoidance of the media in official capacity and his railroading of JoePa gives me hope that he's the true mastermind...haha
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