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Old 11-08-2011, 07:58 AM    (permalink
Prowler
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Sandusky's behavior IMO is separate from the program. Being an open pedophile doesn't reflect a greater permissiveness throughout the PSU football team.
If this had been a player or assistant coach, they would have been arrested in the middle of practice the minute these allegations came out.
What about victims 4-6? Promised walk on spot on the team, and was heavily involved in the team during the sexual assaults while Sandusky was still DC.

And Detective Schreffler is absolutely terrible and represented University Police. It reflects on the school, the decision makers, and that tarnishes the team.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:44 AM    (permalink
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When I say separate from the program, IMO there isn't a 'culture' at Penn State that allows someone like Sandusky to exist.

Paterno is the face of PSU football and the university in general, but if he died tomorrow, the Nitanny Lions wouldn't quit playing D1 football.

The program is the players, always. They didn't have any control over what Paterno, the AD and University president allowed Sandusky to do.

I know its a thin line of demarcation and I don't know if I'm explaining it clearly.

Sandusky is the guy who personally coached HOFer Jack Ham, Shane Conlan and Lavar Arrington, among other stellar Penn State 'backers.
WTF happened to this guy??
Or was he always predisposed this way??
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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The more I think about this, the more and more I am bothered.

While we are on the topic of police... There HAD to have been member(s) of the police force that knew things and did nothing as well. Now I'm not going to sit here and badmouth any one officer in particular or the entire force, as a whole, but someone knew something. Anyone directly involved in keeping it quiet, whether it be through funneling money, etc to victims to hush them, money, etc to the police/district attorney's office to influence reports, or whatever, members of law enforcement knew as well, and did nothing, and those guys should be held as accountable as Spanier/Schultz/Curley in court.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:48 AM    (permalink
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When I say separate from the program, IMO there isn't a 'culture' at Penn State that allows someone like Sandusky to exist.

Paterno is the face of PSU football and the university in general, but if he died tomorrow, the Nitanny Lions wouldn't quit playing D1 football.

The program is the players, always. They didn't have any control over what Paterno, the AD and University president allowed Sandusky to do.

I know its a thin line of demarcation and I don't know if I'm explaining it clearly.

Sandusky is the guy who personally coached HOFer Jack Ham, Shane Conlan and Lavar Arrington, among other stellar Penn State 'backers.
WTF happened to this guy??
Or was he always predisposed this way??
You don't just grow up and become a child molester, he has to have something wrong with him, whether its some **** in his brain or a traumatic childhood experience (not that anything like that makes it ok in any means) that made him this way. I highly doubt he woke up one day as a "man" and thought to himself that now would be a good time to see what children are like. Its disgusting, and I'm pissed off by it.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:53 AM    (permalink
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What about victims 4-6? Promised walk on spot on the team, and was heavily involved in the team during the sexual assaults while Sandusky was still DC.

And Detective Schreffler is absolutely terrible and represented University Police. It reflects on the school, the decision makers, and that tarnishes the team.
For those who want to defend Paterno or Penn State's athletic department, there are a lot of problematic allegations in that Grand Jury report; and things get worse with each passing day. Yesterday, for instance, we found out that Sandusky was working out in the teams weight room a recently as last week.

It really looks like the people running the football program and athletic department really just didn't give a ****, and were too stupid/arrogant to figure out that the game was coming to an end and the cover-up had failed.

At least Paterno and McQueary were (apparently) smart/noble enough to tell the truth in their testimony, or else they'd be facing prison time along with the rest of these guys.

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Old 11-08-2011, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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You don't just grow up and become a child molester, he has to have something wrong with him, whether its some **** in his brain or a traumatic childhood experience (not that anything like that makes it ok in any means) that made him this way. I highly doubt he woke up one day as a "man" and thought to himself that now would be a good time to see what children are like. Its disgusting, and I'm pissed off by it.
This. Asking what happened to him is like asking what happened to Dahmer or Bundy. The guy is just screwed up in the brain. Normal, sane people don't do these things. Hell, even the vast majority of insane people wouldn't dream of doing these things. Sandusky is in his mid/late 60's? I'd be willing to bet that he's been molesting children, to some degree or another, for 40+ years.

I fully expect more victims to come out of the woodwork in the next few weeks. I wouldn't be tremendously shocked if some former recruits speak out.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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McQueary is just as bad as anyone in all of this. He sees this perv molesting a little boy and doesn't do a thing about it? He just turns around and doesn't try to stop it. That's a terrible terrible thing to let happen. He didn't even report it right away and had to have a talk with his dad as to whether he should report to someone higher up.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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McQueary is just as bad as anyone in all of this. He sees this perv molesting a little boy and doesn't do a thing about it? He just turns around and doesn't try to stop it. That's a terrible terrible thing to let happen. He didn't even report it right away and had to have a talk with his dad as to whether he should report to someone higher up.
This, and straight from the mouth of one of the victim's mother.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...ry_sandus.html

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“I don’t even have words to talk about the betrayal that I feel,” said the mom of Victim Six. “[McQueary] was a grown man, and he saw a boy being sodomized ... He ran and called his daddy?”
That was all about saving his own ass at the time. It apparently even paid off. If most of us see a kid being raped, we'd probably beat the living hell out of the guy and live with the consequences even if we get sent to jail for killing the guy. McQueary's actions look like positioning. He did report it, and was told that other authorities of some degree were notified, but he still saw Sandusky in the locker room and at facilities....how was he not bothered?
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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McQueary is just as bad as anyone in all of this. He sees this perv molesting a little boy and doesn't do a thing about it? He just turns around and doesn't try to stop it. That's a terrible terrible thing to let happen. He didn't even report it right away and had to have a talk with his dad as to whether he should report to someone higher up.
I was thinking about this. And I'm kind of indifferent about it. First off, how old was McQueary at the time? I heard he was 22? I'm not sure if that is correct, but we all weren't there and we all don't know exactly what he saw and how clear he saw something. It's easy for all of us to sit back in our chairs behind our computers not knowing what went down and say he should have saved the day. But unfortunately we weren't there and we don't know the degree of what he witnessed. Perhaps he was unsure of what he saw, or it didn't hit him until later. If he definitely saw what he saw and had the state of mind to do something about it, but consciously made a decision to do nothing, then that is wrong.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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Well, according to page 6 of the testimony(available on 1st post in thread), he was 28 years old at the time...heard rhythmic slapping sounds coming from the showers, proceeded into the area, and then actually saw the intercourse...
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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McQueary said he saw Sandusky butt ******* a 10 year old in the showers in the grand jury report.
Instead of thinking about the welfare of that kid, he was worried too much about losing his job.

Seeing Sandusky anally violating a kid in the PSU showers was almost the equivalent of seeing JoePa raping someone. McQueary was scared for himself more so than the child IMO.

Remember McQueary went to the showers to investigate what sounded like two people having sex.
He was right, they were.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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Oh I didn't see the link to the report. I'll read it.

In any case, why the hell would McQueary be afraid for his job? Being at the scene I couldn't imagine thinking that stopping what was going on was going to get me fired. I suppose he thought Sandusky would have some kind of leverage? I don't get it.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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Oh I didn't see the link to the report. I'll read it.

In any case, why the hell would McQueary be afraid for his job? Being at the scene I couldn't imagine thinking that stopping what was going on was going to get me fired. I suppose he thought Sandusky would have some kind of leverage? I don't get it.
And this is why he's just as bad as the rest hence my little rant.
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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The more I think about this, the more and more I am bothered.

While we are on the topic of police... There HAD to have been member(s) of the police force that knew things and did nothing as well. Now I'm not going to sit here and badmouth any one officer in particular or the entire force, as a whole, but someone knew something. Anyone directly involved in keeping it quiet, whether it be through funneling money, etc to victims to hush them, money, etc to the police/district attorney's office to influence reports, or whatever, members of law enforcement knew as well, and did nothing, and those guys should be held as accountable as Spanier/Schultz/Curley in court.
This is an interesting point. I'm not sure there's a whole lot they could have done given the circumstances, but there had to be some inclination that this guy was a sexual predator. Certainly had to be after that 1998 stuff(not sure if posted or not, but this was pretty creepy). As far as payouts go, I'm not sure we can jump there quite yet, but I think there's some more to this that hasn't come out, especially with the number of victims involved and how long it went on. I certainly hope there isn't, but it just seems like an incomplete picture right now.


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McQueary is just as bad as anyone in all of this. He sees this perv molesting a little boy and doesn't do a thing about it? He just turns around and doesn't try to stop it. That's a terrible terrible thing to let happen. He didn't even report it right away and had to have a talk with his dad as to whether he should report to someone higher up.
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. I'm not going to pretend I know what I would do in those circumstances or undermine it with roleplaying, but I would like to think that anyone would do a little more. I can't think of anything worse that someone could be doing than sodomizing a child. I would like to think that anyone would do a little more than run away and notify the chain of command. I'm not sure how he, or anyone else who had knowledge of it, was able to stand letting this guy walk around the entire time since after that. Let alone conduct camps with children affiliated with the university. Absolutely sickening.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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I'm the most calm and rational guy in the world, but I'd go ballistic on a guy or at the very least call the cops the absolute second I saw something like that happen. McQueary calling his dad makes a selfish coward, but I figured that went without saying.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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This is an interesting point. I'm not sure there's a whole lot they could have done given the circumstances, but there had to be some inclination that this guy was a sexual predator. Certainly had to be after that 1998 stuff(not sure if posted or not, but this was pretty creepy). As far as payouts go, I'm not sure we can jump there quite yet, but I think there's some more to this that hasn't come out, especially with the number of victims involved and how long it went on. I certainly hope there isn't, but it just seems like an incomplete picture right now.
The 1998 case is disturbing.

-The DA dropped charges after Sandusky all but admitted buggering the lady's son.
-The lawyer representing PSU pushed the DA and campus police to drop the investigation. That lawyer is now the chief legal counsel for Sandusky's charity.
-The DA disappeared and his hard drive was thrown in water to destroy the evidence.
-The lead detective on the case advised Sandusky not to shower with little boys anymore after Sandusky admitted to bear hugging one in the shower.
-Sandusky was forced out but left to have free reign on campus with little boys in tow.
-JoePa gave a one minute speech at Sandusky's retirement party. This indicates that he knew what was up.

The whole thing stinks of a massive coverup from that point, not 2002.

This is why I conjectured before that some massive influence was given to suppress the investigation into Sandusky. I'm thinking that he blackmailed JoePa and/or PSU. He knew the inner workings of the program and obviously knew whatever dirt there was.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Oh I didn't see the link to the report. I'll read it.

In any case, why the hell would McQueary be afraid for his job? Being at the scene I couldn't imagine thinking that stopping what was going on was going to get me fired. I suppose he thought Sandusky would have some kind of leverage? I don't get it.
Mind you I have only skimmed it but its disgusting man. When there talking about the victims its like a porno script and thats freeking disgusting. And it goes in to very much detail where I don't think people would be making this up making me think Sandusky is guilty.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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Another alleged victim just came in from the cold.

I hope Sandusky offs himself to just get this over with sooner than later and dragging these poor people through the emotional ringer to convict him.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Joe Pa just cancelled his news conference that was scheduled today like 20 minutes before it was supposed to happen. Wonder if that means anything in regards to stories about further negligence that went on at Penn State or in regards to him potentially resigning.
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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that or they realize that every question will be about the scandal, and they want to avoid so many trap questions.
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Lavar Arrington had this, among other things, to say:
Quote:
“I know Mike [McQueary]. Mike was my quarterback,” Arrington said.

”I know him. So I’m trying to understand, how do you, and again, maybe he felt as though it would be better suited if it came from Coach Paterno. … I’m going to tell you right now, I gotta stop that [assault].

”Even if it’s, ‘Coach [Sandusky], I gotta stop you. … I gotta take this to Coach Paterno right now’. This is not good, oh my gosh, this is not good.”

Arrington added: “The natural instinct that would kick in, if I saw a child being violated, and I don’t care who they are, I don’t care who the person is that would be doing that. If you’re an adult and you are violating a child, all reputations, all everything, all that goes out the door.

“If that was Coach Paterno, like, ‘Coach, what are you doing? … You gotta come, you gotta come sit your [butt] down right here, I’m calling the cops’.”
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports...y-allegations/

More and more people are wondering WTF is wrong with McQueary. It's one thing to not stop the guy and help the kid, but to not even call the cops? Come on...Like I said yesterday, his reputation is toast.

I hope he's okay with coaching Division III football.

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Old 11-08-2011, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
Joe Pa just cancelled his news conference that was scheduled today like 20 minutes before it was supposed to happen. Wonder if that means anything in regards to stories about further negligence that went on at Penn State or in regards to him potentially resigning.
For the record, Spanier cancelled it without asking JoePa. Joe wanted to do it.

Also, http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sp...it.html?src=tp
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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AP reporting Joe Paterno "disappointed" that Spannier cancelled press conference. Was looking forward to discuss "implications of the scandal" and "the upcoming Nebraska game. Kind of weird.
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzlegom View Post
Yeah, I just saw that. Honestly; that's the right thing to do. I'm not even sure if it's appropriate for him to last the rest of the season. Cancelling that news conference probably has a lot to do with figuring out the best way to completely clean the house out.
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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PSU starting process to fire Paterno:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sp...f=ncaafootball
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