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Old 04-28-2012, 07:29 PM    (permalink
mdmgrand
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This draft was definitely up and down...

Loved:
- Richardson, obviously... Even with the trade up, I felt like the Browns made the right move, especially after I saw the Browns make a few questionable picks.
- Getting James-Michael Johnson, Billy Winn, and Trevin Wade on Day 3. I fully expect Winn to outplay the Browns' 3rd Rounder, John Hughes, and establish himself within the rotation. Johnson will fill out depth, as will Wade, who I thought would be picked in the 4th or the 5th.
- Filling two out of three big needs, RB and RT

Hated:
- Picking Weeden at 22. If they would've drafted Reiff there or Decastro and waited for him to fall to 37 I would have been much happier. If someone took him prior to pick 37, oh well, move along with McCoy for another year and take another solid offensive weapon for him to see if he makes strides. If McCoy faltered, then we inevitably would've been in the Top 5 again for next year's draft, and we could have taken a QB there.
- John Hughes... It's one thing to argue that we and the media do not know what the scouts and front office know, but when John Hughes was projected as a seventh rounder / free agent by everyone, there's something wrong. Some draftnik would have seen something.
- Not filling one out of the three big needs, WR....
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
Tampa was gonna jump us for cheap. At least that's what the Cleveland media was saying all day today, and I think they said it on NFLN as well. We gave up a late 4th, 5th, and 7th for him. Trifles when you consider we had 13 picks (including 2 picks in each of those rounds) and we were desperate for an elite offensive skill position player (of which Richardson is the only truly elite one available)

Agree about Weeden. If he's good (big if) then he'll be here maybe 6 or 7 years in his prime. He has a better arm and better size and can make all the throws unlike McCoy. I think he will be no better than Matt Schaub/Matt Hasselbeck/Jake Delhomme/Joe Flacco in the NFL. Not top 10 in the league like you need to win it all, but one of the 11-20 best QBs (middle of the pack, but a decent starter who can be part of a really good offense if you have good pieces around him).

Schwartz was an alright pick. Good value, fills a huge need. No more turnstile at right tackle for the first time since that one year Ryan Tucker was actually healthy. Would have preferred Adams, but he fell b/c of character issues and he had a poor combine. Cordy Glenn not a great fit for what we need. Soft OG with great measurables but not a great pass protector in tight spaces against speed rushers, we needed a better pass pro guy at RT. There is a reason he fell so far.

Hughes was a guy the team liked. A late third round pick. Look at all the other third round picks by other teams. A whole lot of them were guys not expected to go that high, but the actual teams know more about scouting players than the media. Kiper/McShay/Rang/Reuter/etc. don't have as much knowledge about the players as NFL teams whose jobs rely on picking players. Bunch of weird picks in the third round. You can't judge the actual value based on the media. The media thought Bruce Irvin was a late 2nd and he was a first rounder on most teams' boards, same with AJ Jenkins and Brian Quick. The media said Bobby Massie was a top 50 lock - he lasted until round 4. John Hughes was probably a 4th rounder on a lot of teams' board for all we know. Either way, if he pans out as a decent rotational DT it's all we expect of him. In late round 3 and beyond you aren't drafting guys to fill immediate needs, aka holes in the starting lineup. It's a crapshoot, you just go BPA at that point regardless of position.

So Richardson and Schwartz are keepers and are gonna be core pieces for years to come on offense. Weeden was a pick the fans hated. He's an upgrade at QB, but everyone says bad pick. Hopefully we are all wrong and he's not just an average QB, b/c we all know his career won't be that long. After we traded down to the bottom of the third my expectations dropped for who we picked. I was expecting a DT there to backup Rubin and Taylor, and that's what we got. We fans have no idea how good he'll be, but let's let it play out. T

he rest of the draft is the same story - take BPA and hope we get maybe one or two contributors/starters that turn out to be gems/steals. The law of averages says that with all those picks we should at least hit on one or two tomorrow, so chin up about the rest of the draft.
I disagree, the Browns would have easily found a trading partner for them to secure Kalil and Minny knew it and had zero intention of risking losing Kalil by trading with Tampa. We would have had another 2nd rounder out of this scenario, picked Floyd then Martin at #22 and traded back up into round 1 using all the picks they wasted by moving up to #3 plus the 2nd rounder they got for the #4 pick.
I am shocked at the incompetence of our management team unless Lerner stepped in and forced decisions on them.
P.S. I see that Brewster didn't even get drafted, like I said, he showed at the Senior Bowl workouts that he had no sand in his pants and couldn't handle a bull rush, the kiss of death for an OLman.
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:33 AM    (permalink
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So, here are my thoughts about the draft. Feel free to correct me, since I don't follow college ball at all and don't "evaluate" prospects much. In fact, please correct me if I am wrong at anything. (Posted these also on another forum, but would like to know what you guys think)

After day 2 (Most sports writers TRASHED us with draft grades at this point) :

1) From terms of positions drafted, the draft kind of makes sense so far. You have a QB and you support him with players that help with a good start, like a stud RB and a solid RT. You also add a DT since run defense over the middle was one of our biggest problems last year on defense. We have so many holes in our team that you have to start somewhere and ignore some needs. Fine. But why the heck would you ignore the biggest and most glaring need this team has? That is a WR that can catch some balls. In my opinion that weakness held us back more than anything last year. I personally would have looked for that at the LATEST with with our third pick at #37....

2) From terms of which players taken to fill the respective needs you gotta trust Tom Heckert. The guy has a history of picking good players, not only in Cleveland but also for years in Philly. If anything you can say about Heckerts tenure in Philly than that they were drafting well. As someone pointed out above: He made some "questionable" picks in the past years and each of them turned out fine players. So who do I trust more on this: Some amateur "scouts" and talking heads in the media or a guy who evaluates players for a living successfully for the last two decades?


General points:

3) Jim Brown said, Trent Richardson is an "ordinary" player. And to be honest with you, after watching "tape" (Youtube lol) on him, this is my gut feeling, too. I know he has all the numbers and all the experts love him. But: People say he is the "best RB to come along since Adrian Peterson". Go watch college highlights of Adrian Peterson and you will see a man amongst boys. He was so much better than everyone on the field in college, it was scary. Insane juke moves, a truck of a guy and a burst of speed that almost seemed inhuman. He JUMPS out of the tape like I have very rarely seen before. If you watch tape on Richardson, you just see a good RB. Not very fast. Not very shifty. Nothing spectacular. Nobody you can see stepping on the field from day 1 and change the game. This is just a pure gut feeling and I really hope he proves me wrong...

4) Heckert and Shumur said on their press conference that they think our group of receivers "will immediately be better the moment they play with Weeden". For one, this is one of the most harsh statements I have heard so far towards Colt McCoy. Weeden has the starting spot all but locked up. But aside from that: I don't see it. We have a very, very average group of receivers. You don't have to be a football genius to see this. There is no separation ever. And even if, they don't catch the ball. I hope our front office doesn't really believe what they said. Because if they do, we will pick before 9 p.m. next year, too....

Regarding Weeden:

5) Just watched some tape on him. .... lol, meaning I searched him on Youtube. But the man really DOES have a nice arm. He throws with authority, is very accurate and has velocity on every throw. Not seen one ball where I thought "This ball was so slow, in the NFL you would have 2 linebackers, a corner and a safety jump it before it comes anywhere near a receiver." And to be honest, as much as I liked McCoy, that was the case with nearly every single one of McCoys college passes. Looking at our starters from 1999 on, Weeden might be the best pure thrower. By far. And on top of that he is a good story. This is not taking into account his age, though... To be honest: I don't like the pick very much. BUT in reality you have to wait to judge it. If he has 5 or 6 productive years for us and maybe takes us to the playoffs a couple of times then it was a good pick.
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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Interesting draft, although I had anticipated us drafting CB and WR earlier than we did. I give credit to the guys in charge for appearing to know what the heck they are doing on draft day. I can honestly say before they arrived, that some fans could have drafted as well or better than the likes of Butch Davis and Phil Savage. Mangini's draft was ok, especially since he traded down to pick up a much needed center in Alex Mack. But Heckert and Holmgren are very good at what they do. Now as a fan I can just sit back and see how the picks turn out. Drafting John Hughes in the 3rd was perplexing, but we'll find out if they are right about him.

NFL.com had the following ratings for our players. I'm assuming the scale goes up to 100.

1a) RB Trent Richardson - 93.5
1b) QB Brandon Weedon - 83.7
2) OT Mitchell Schwartz - 82.5
3) DT John Hughes - 48.2
4a) WR Travis Benjamin - 66.5
4b) ILB James-Michael Johnson - 69
5) OG Ryan Miller - 66.5
6a) OLB Emmanuel Acho - 57
6b) DT Billy Winn - 84
7a) CB Trevin Wade - 82.5
7b) FB/TE Brad Smelley - 48.5

Just judging by the ratings, fans have to be encouraged by the high marks for CB Trevin Wade (a position of dire need opposite Haden), and DT Billy Winn, two players who could be late round steals.

There'll be an interesting battle for backup DT spots on the roster. I'm not sure if Paxson is under contract still, but if he is I doubt he makes the team as he doesn't have good size. Shaefering on the other hand is a player I think most of us like. He's tough, has decent size, and is a competitor. I hope he makes the team, but if the two rookies beat him out so be it.

Just a wild guess that Smelley was drafted to compete with Marecic at FB. He's listed some places as a TE, but I'm guessing he'll be a ST's player and FB for us. Marecic did ok at FB, but he was not the punishing blocker some of us thought he might be last year after he was drafted. I didn't know much about him at the time, but after watching him play last season, he seems more of a tactician to me. Maybe I'm being unfair as he was a rookie, but regardless I'm glad he'll have competition this year.

OLB is a critical position this year to find starters for. They say both Johnson and Acho have played both inside and outside, but judging by size it appears to me anyways that Acho will be more suited for OLB, and Johnson for ILB.

Ideally, it'll be great if Ryan Miller beats out Lauvao at RG, but that's alot to expect out of a 5th rounder his rookie year. Schwartz though has to start from day one. The right side of that O-line was a big reason McCoy had to roll out so often to try to find an open WR.

WR, hmmm. Travis Benjamin is small and fast. He'll help out and be a contrast to the group we have now. Has the capability to help in the return game as well, as it's been obvious for the past two seasons that Cribbs has lost a half-step, if not a full one. He has muscled up enough that the extra weight makes him a tad slower. More than anything I was surprised we didn't take a WR earlier than we did, but at least we did get a speed guy who'll be able to blow the top off defenses if he can beat press coverage. Although he'll probably just be used as a slot guy.

Still some needs, but I like how some positions are getting some depth, like DL and OL, which is critical.

Richardson and Weedon are hopefully two cornerstones for future Super Bowl winning teams.

A couple days before the draft ESPN Classic had some games on for both Alabama and Oklahoma State. I recorded them just in case we drafted Weedon and Richardson. Since I don't watch alot of college football, I don't know exactly how good the two of them are, but will be watching those recordings to get a better idea.

About three and a half months to pre-season. Looking forward to it more than ever this time around.

Too tired this AM to correct any errors in grammer...
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Old 04-29-2012, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Browns scouting report on Weeden must have looked something like this:

Quote:
per Alex Brown

Background/Character
An all-state baseball and basketball player in high school, Weeden was drafted in 2002 in the 2nd round by the New York Yankees. Bouncing around in the minor leagues for 4 years, Weeden's baseball career ended after suffering tendinitis in his right rotator cuff. Brandon chose to not undergo surgery, stopped playing baseball, and decided to walk-on at Oklahoma State to play football. Worked his way through the system, improving his strength and understanding of the game as a reserve until 2001 when he was named the starter. Weeden was a walk-on addition to the 2011 Oklahoma State golf team as well.

Mature, composed, and cool, Weeden handles media with confidence and ease. Living off campus and married, at age 28, Weeden still has money leftover from his initial signing bonus from 2002 which he put into savings. The definitive leader of his team, Weeden leads vocally and by example. Exudes an even keel demeanor, on-field composure, and a sense of confidence in his teammates. Very vocal at the line of scrimmage and very much in control of the high tempo offense. Holds nearly every OSU passing record, despite starting for just 2 seasons.


Athleticism
Former professional baseball player and walk-on golf player, Brandon Weeden is extremely coordinated and athletic. Possesses ideal height and size at the quarterback position, weighing slightly under 220 lbs and measuring around 6'4 height-wise. Well built frame, having good bulk in chest area and midsection, and strong armed. Utilizes decent knee flex and bend while settling into his pass drops; similar to Tom Brady in that he bounces in the pocket, with light feet and good balance. Also similar to Brady, is his tendency to get upright in the pocket and be unable to reset his feet thereafter when pressure arises.

Certainly won't run away from anyone, but does show good movement skills within the pocket and can move outside the pocket. Able to step up or slide out while keeping his balance; has foot speed to set and deliver ball very quickly. At age 28, Weeden is completely matured physically; never had surgery for shoulder injury that ended his baseball career, and simply switched over to football once he finished rehab. Will have to check out healthy at the combine and prove to teams that it won't be an issue later on in his career. Not much upside athletically but NFL teams know exactly what they are getting with Weeden.


Passing-Ability
Brandon WeedenWeeden has elite arm talent and can make every throw. Equally effective driving the football on intermediate to deep routes, as well as pinpoint ball placement on throws breaking inside or outside the numbers. Weeden is especially effective at driving deep post and deep fade patterns. Has the ability to file the ball over the 2nd level (linebackers) and under the 3rd level (safeties) of the defense on dig, post, and seam throws. Drives the ball into tight windows with authority.

Can change velocities without any lost accuracy, showing fairly good touch on underneath/crossing patterns. At times early in the season, struggled with his accuracy over the middle of the field, throwing behind his receivers or sailing throws; but improved placement and anticipation on throws over the middle of the field. Resets his feet, hips, and shoulders quickly from snap on bubble and screen throws to the outside. Throws with excellent placement in short passing tree, giving his receivers and backs the ability to create yards after the catch. In a limited amount of rollout throws, Weeden has done a nice job scanning the field, locating a target, and aligning his shoulders to the throw.


Passing-Technique
Fundamentally sound from separation to release, Brandon Weeden does an excellent job of setting his feet to the throw, transferring his weight while staying balanced, and finishing his throws. Weeden's light feet, constant balance, and bounce at the end of his pass drops, enable him to quickly reset his feet and deliver the football when he feels pressure. More specifically, he points his shoulders and elbow to his target and torques his left upper body all the way thru the throw. Really follows thru with his throwing hand exceptionally well, and remains balanced throughout his motion.

Throws with a ¾’s delivery and arm slot. Has quickened up his footwork and dropback, and also developed a sense of urgency within the pocket; though largely immobile, Weeden does show the ability to slide to either side or step up in a clean pocket. Though his mechanics are rock solid, Weeden does struggle with avoiding blitz pressure. Has developed tendency to force ball at his current read whenever blitz pressure gets to him; has quick enough release to get ball out before hit, but doesn’t always see where his throw is going. Pressure, especially thru the two A-gaps by stunting backers, adversely affects Weeden's decision making and, more importantly, his accuracy.


Passing-Instincts
Weeden deciphers post snap information quickly and decisively; able to progress through multiple reads with efficiency and always knows where his check down is. Displays a high football intelligence, and has already evidenced the ability to make full field reads. Recognizes coverages presnap, and interceptions usually come from a lack of anticipation; has to see where he's throwing. Very determined to push the ball downfield and hesitates to go straight to his checkdown receiver.

Tends to stare down his primary. Shows confidence in his receivers to win every one-on-one matchup, and will throw the football up for grabs in single man coverage. Will take chances with the football because he trusts his throwing skills and receivers so much; still improving as a progression passer and must learn to take the checkdown when its there. Has short term memory and quickly recovers from mistakes; isn't afraid to look down the barrel and take the big hit. Very underrated in terms of pocket presence and ability to feel the rush, Weeden has taken just 19 sacks in over 1000 pass attempts as a starter. Communicates very well at the line of scrimmage, and has veteran-like composure.


Summary
The biggest concern that will build momentum leading into the 2012 NFL Draft for Brandon Weeden, undoubtedly will be his age. As a 28 year old, a perceived inability to develop, and limited upside bring reason to doubt Weeden's long term success. Some have even gone as far to say he can only be a one-contract player. With a relatively poor track record of minor league baseball players in the NFL, ranging from Chris Weinke to Drew Henson, it is easy to dismiss Weeden's pro potential. However this could not be further from the truth. Weeden's willingness to stand in line for 2 seasons, learn the Oklahoma State system, develop physically, and learn the game of football should not be so easily overlooked. The former professional baseball player, has a rocket arm and throws the football as well as anyone in the country. Even more impressive than his arm talent, are Weeden's ideal throwing mechanics. The age factor in many ways, should be looked at as a positive attribute by teams in need of an immediate starter at quarterback. Married and having dealt with the rigors of the professional sporting life already, Brandon Weeden has the maturity of a seasoned veteran and the spotlight of the NFL will not be too much for him. He understands how to handle his money, will stay out of trouble, and gives a good face to any franchise looking for a solution.

Oklahoma State built the entire offense to fit Weeden's skillset -that is, pushing the ball vertically downfield, utilizing an up tempo style, and allowing Weeden full reign to toss the ball across the yard. Offensive coordinator Todd Monken said on ESPN's Year of the Quarterback special covering OSU's quarterbacks, "He can make every throw. There's not one throw he can't make. [...] He has touch to dump the ball down underneath. He can make intermediate throws with authority. He can throw the ball deep downfield, very accurately. It's really amazing how accurate he is at all the different throws he has to make." As stated previously Weeden has the skill set and mental makeup to be an immediate starter. Whichever team decides to take Weeden must adjust their offense to fit his skillset by utilizing a heavy dose of shotgun pass formations. Weeden rarely, if ever took snaps from under center snaps at Oklahoma State and will have to prove that he can transition to a pro style system. I do not see this as being a major cause for concern, and Brandon Weeden currently deserves early to mid 2nd round draft consideration.
Brown's comparison is Schaub. Scott says Kolb. I still see Jason Campbell. Not as a prospect coming out of Auburn but as he is now. Either way it strikes as a purely desperate move for a front office going into their 3rd year without a franchise guy. If he struggles this season I'm really curious if they pull the trigger on another QB high next year. They've thrown nothing but praise and confidence McCoy's way before making an abrupt about face after drafting this guy. not good.

WR. This is the same FO/coaching staff that evaluated this position last year and put Massaquoi and Robiskie atop the depth chart. Forgive me if I have zero confidence they know what their doing here as they insist this group is better than it appeared last season. Travis Benjamin. I'm going to take a closer look but what sticks out about him most is the worst gauntlet performance I can ever remember seeing at the combine. This for a team that led the league in drops. He's fast and coachable and before a closer look I think he showed dependable hands in games but his chances of making an impact this season aren't that far from Carlton Mitchell as a rookie. None.

Jim Brown's comments can be taken glass full or empty. On one hand, Richardson has been getting heaps and heaps of praise touting him as the best talent in the draft and an instant game changer, so comments from the goat like that might put a bit of a chip on him entering the league. Seems to me he already referenced it as his press conference. On the other hand, he might be spot on and Trip ends up simply being overhyped. I know when watching him I wasn't that impressed by his elusiveness behind the los or ability to make the first man miss. But his burst, open field running, long speed and pile push won me over.
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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Richardson does lack the speed that is needed to be a true difference maker, but he checks off in everything else. These are his best attributes:

- Amazing Balance
- Low center of gravity
- Passing game, whether receiving or blocking
- Immense strength

When you look at his balance, low center of gravity, and strength, you have a back who will probably make a few Pro Bowls provided he stays healthy. As a Cleveland fan... It is about time to get someone like that.


In regards to the receivers... After looking at the roster, with the addition of Travis Benjamin, I am willing to see what happens. Heres my analysis:

- Greg Little is made for this offense. He is built like a tank and he is extremely effective on slants and outs. After watching his catch log, I realized that Colt McCoy was limiting him, especially on outs. With Weeden, who has a significantly stronger arm, I see Little expanding his route tree and becoming a true number one receiver.

- Mohamed Massaquoi is not a special receiver by any means, but he does help as a deep threat. While not a blazer, he still finds himself open deep often. Once again I believe he was limited in the offense, partly because of McCoy. MoMass had a great rookie season and has declined steadily, but I do believe with Weeden he will look a lot better, and look like a number two.

- Josh Cribbs needs primarily screens, drags, and end arounds. I have never been impressed with his development as a receiver with traditional routes, get him the ball in space. They could also use him in the backfield, and get him three or four carries a game.

- Travis Benajamin will help because he is all speed, one thing this core lacks. His problem have been drops and the fact that he really is not a slot guy, even though is size is perfect for it.

The question after these four is who to keep. Jordan Norwood would be smart to keep, definitely as a slot guy. Also I'd keep Carlton Mitchell one more year to see if he develops into a deep threat with his size and speed.

One thing that is for sure with the Browns WR core is that they cannot drop the ball as much as they have. Another problem is that the coaching staff needs to throw it deep more. This will probably come with the fact that Weeden's arm is superior to McCoy's.
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Richardson's lack of sub 4.45 speed will prevent him from being a true difference maker. He ran anywhere between 4.47 and 4.54 at his pro day, so he has plenty of speed to run away from defenders in the open field once you consider these things:

-his vision
-his quickness
-his balance
-his strength/power

guys might run him down if they get a good angle, but that doesn't mean he'll get tackled, watch some game tape of him and you'll see this and agree. He will join the list of other elite NFL runningbacks who were "true difference makers" that didn't have elite speed. Emmitt Smith ran a 4.55 40 yard dash.
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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I got no problem with the Richardson pick, in the end he could be a far better pro than Peterson. Peterson cannot catch a ball and is a total liability on pass protection and is almost never on the field in passing downs. He is strictly a 2 down back. Richardson is an excellent receiver and a tremendous blocker and can therefore play all 3 downs.
What I hate is that we gave up 4 picks for him when Minny had no intension of trading back past Cleveland and risk losing Kalil. That's what makes me mad.

Weeden is simply a desperation move by Holmgren/Heckert after they lost out on RG111. I think they promised a new QB to Lerner and had to produce one no matter the cost. The worst thing about the Weeden pick is that we are stuck with him for the next 2 seasons minimally and won't be looking for a true franchise QB next year like we should be.

Holmgren/Heckert are in their 4th season starting next year and we will be lucky to win 4 games again, I've never in my 55 years following the draft, seen a team so weak after the current management team has had 3 drafts go by, except the Lions under Matt Millen or other like GM's who were soon fired.

Heckert didn't run Philly's draft, Reid has always had final say on their picks and Holmgren went from HC to GM with zero experience running the ship, and I am begining to think they are just over their heads running the Browns. Just a thought .
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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I got no problem with the Richardson pick, in the end he could be a far better pro than Peterson. Peterson cannot catch a ball and is a total liability on pass protection and is almost never on the field in passing downs. He is strictly a 2 down back. Richardson is an excellent receiver and a tremendous blocker and can therefore play all 3 downs.
What I hate is that we gave up 4 picks for him when Minny had no intension of trading back past Cleveland and risk losing Kalil. That's what makes me mad.

Weeden is simply a desperation move by Holmgren/Heckert after they lost out on RG111. I think they promised a new QB to Lerner and had to produce one no matter the cost. The worst thing about the Weeden pick is that we are stuck with him for the next 2 seasons minimally and won't be looking for a true franchise QB next year like we should be.

Holmgren/Heckert are in their 4th season starting next year and we will be lucky to win 4 games again, I've never in my 55 years following the draft, seen a team so weak after the current management team has had 3 drafts go by, except the Lions under Matt Millen or other like GM's who were soon fired.

Heckert didn't run Philly's draft, Reid has always had final say on their picks and Holmgren went from HC to GM with zero experience running the ship, and I am begining to think they are just over their heads running the Browns. Just a thought .
As much as I don't like the draft they just had, they have brought in a lot of good talent, so it's hard to. The team is very very young and it's way too early to say they've done a bad job.

*They traded three picks, also Homgren & Heckert have only been with the Browns for two seasons. I would much rather Holmgren make the football decisions than Lerner anyways.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:43 AM    (permalink
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As much as I don't like the draft they just had, they have brought in a lot of good talent, so it's hard to. The team is very very young and it's way too early to say they've done a bad job.

*They traded three picks, also Homgren & Heckert have only been with the Browns for two seasons. I would much rather Holmgren make the football decisions than Lerner anyways.
I can only second that.

First off, this is only the second offseason Holmgren and Heckert have right now. Last season was the first season they could run with "their" guys. And within one offseason they managed to build a nice defense. This offseason they focus on offense, using all their high picks on this side of the ball and also bringing in an OC.

Speaking of which, without Holmgren at the helm a team like Cleveland would have NEVER been able to bring in the guys we have so far: Heckert as GM, Jauron as DC and now Childress as OC. Only questionable hire so far remains Shumur, at least until proven otherwise.

I also applaud Lerner for finally recognizing that he is not interested in football enough to make good decision at the top. So he hired a proven guy to do so and paid him a lot of money for it. So far it seems to be the right direction.


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Old 05-01-2012, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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yeah, after spending all their premium draft picks on defense the first two years (haden, ward, taylor, sheard) they added some good young talent on that side of the ball and finally decided to address the offense after ignoring it completely aside from drafting Greg Little with a late first rounder they got from the Julio Jones trade. Richardson and Schwartz will make the offense a lot better right away. Weeden will as well, though we don't know how good he'll be yet. Hopefully he turns into a really good pro bowl caliber QB. If that happens then it makes the fact that he is 28 years old a little less significant.

Also I just gotta commend the mid and late round picks the team made. Some good value that really adds depth to our defense. A couple potential future starters in there as well. People criticize the John Hughes pick but one guy said yesterday that Hughes was a late riser and the Saints were planning on picking him two picks after the Browns took him. Billy Winn, Trevin Wade, Emmanuel Acho, and especially James-Michael Johnson were great values. Johnson has starter potential, might fit best at MLB (if Jackson gets hurt again). Smelley could be our starting fullback if he beats out Marecic. Benjamin adds speed and field stretching ability that we desperately need. He might be too small to play in the NFL, but I think it was a calculated risk in round 4.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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I'm curious what the long term plans are for Weeden. His major weakness is his ability to execute against a heavy rush. They clearly want him to play this season but if he struggles to beat out Colt or doesn't play as well as they'd hope is it out of the question they consider another QB next year?

Their intention this year was to upgrade the QB position, now if it doesn't come up to the level of play they want, wouldn't it seem logical that they would try to upgrade again next season? I've been looking at Ok St. games and I'm impressed with Weeden's arm and accuracy and he definitely looks like a better talent then Colt but he does become a different guy when the rush gets to him. I'm not sure it's possible to accurately grade a guy as a rookie, but, given his age, if he doesn't look like the kind of guy that can carry the team to at least a division championship, I think it makes sense to draft a high upside QB that may need some development, high next year if available.

It would be uncommon but with the new cba and the unusual circumstance of a 30yr old 2nd year guy, why not? If they're in a position next draft to take Logan Thomas or Tyler Bray in the first or even E.J. Manuel in the 2nd, should they pass? Or if we end up with the #1 overall, (seen our schedule?) are all bets off?

Obviously my prospects for the upcoming season are pretty low. Honestly, I see 3-4 Ws tops. I suppose the best scenario would be, even if we lose a ton, for Weeden to actually look pretty good, allowing us to trade back St. Louis Rams fashion and stock pile picks.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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I'm curious what the long term plans are for Weeden. His major weakness is his ability to execute against a heavy rush. They clearly want him to play this season but if he struggles to beat out Colt or doesn't play as well as they'd hope is it out of the question they consider another QB next year?

Their intention this year was to upgrade the QB position, now if it doesn't come up to the level of play they want, wouldn't it seem logical that they would try to upgrade again next season? I've been looking at Ok St. games and I'm impressed with Weeden's arm and accuracy and he definitely looks like a better talent then Colt but he does become a different guy when the rush gets to him. I'm not sure it's possible to accurately grade a guy as a rookie, but, given his age, if he doesn't look like the kind of guy that can carry the team to at least a division championship, I think it makes sense to draft a high upside QB that may need some development, high next year if available.

It would be uncommon but with the new cba and the unusual circumstance of a 30yr old 2nd year guy, why not? If they're in a position next draft to take Logan Thomas or Tyler Bray in the first or even E.J. Manuel in the 2nd, should they pass? Or if we end up with the #1 overall, (seen our schedule?) are all bets off?

Obviously my prospects for the upcoming season are pretty low. Honestly, I see 3-4 Ws tops. I suppose the best scenario would be, even if we lose a ton, for Weeden to actually look pretty good, allowing us to trade back St. Louis Rams fashion and stock pile picks.
Pretty tough mentally for Holmgren/Heckert to admit they made a huge mistake in drafting Weeden after 1 season and take another QB at #1 next draft. I think they will stick to the Weeden experiment for at least 2 seasons. After all, if Weeden flops, they are likely out of their jobs which makes giving up on him even more unlikely after 1 season.

Don't get me wrong, I think Weeden has a lot of talent, it's his age and shoulder problems which worry me. I can only see a 6 year career for him and it will take 3 seasons before he is really at his peak, which means we have a 3 year window for success if he comes through. Not the way I would build my franchise and not the way any team I have ever seen do it.

It is a pretty scary proposition if you ask me. If they had taken him in round 2, they could easily justify drafting another QB next season should he not come through as they hoped, but by taking him at #22, they have put all their eggs into his basket for better or worse.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I don't think they draft a QB next season even if they get the top overall pick. Of course there are scenarios where it could happen (like if the top pick is a guy with a can't miss grade that they love and Weeden totally completely bombs this year a la Jimmy Clausen).....but don't count on us drafting a QB in round one in 2013.

I'm not so much worried about Weeden being a bust - he has a great arm with good size and a lightning quick release and he's smart and mature - I think he'll do fine, even against good pass rushes because his release will help him like it helped other less athletic QBs like Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, and Tom Brady. I'm more worried about him just being a good not great QB like Hasselbeck or Schaub who will only have about 6 good years in him. Good but not great to put us over the top.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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If we're sitting with the #1 or #2 pick next year and Logan Thomas is available, I think it would be extremely hard to pass. Off the charts Newton like skill set that ideally would need at least a season to be ready and by that time Weeden would be 31. In essence Weeden becomes a high end bridge for 2-4 seasons, depending on how good he is. We wouldn't have to worry about the QB position for the next 8-10 years.

Our schedule is brutal. If we somehow manage a nice season this year then Weeden and the coaching staff will have more than proven themselves.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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I checked out NC State v Cincinnati from this past season to look at John Hughes. First impression, he looks like Tyson Alualu. He strictly played as a 2 down NT. He held his ground well against the double team and helped Wolfe to go one on one for pressure and sacks. Great motor in his limited snaps. Pretty good feet for his size and really long arms.

He had a good game, snuffing out the run a few times and getting pressure in Glennon's face at least twice forcing an incomplete and an interception. I can see how he'll fit. Looks like a comparable physical talent to Brandon Thompson and Ta'Amu but isn't as quick/explosive off the snap. I'd assume our guys rated him as a better run defender though.
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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I checked out NC State v Cincinnati from this past season to look at John Hughes. First impression, he looks like Tyson Alualu. He strictly played as a 2 down NT. He held his ground well against the double team and helped Wolfe to go one on one for pressure and sacks. Great motor in his limited snaps. Pretty good feet for his size and really long arms.

He had a good game, snuffing out the run a few times and getting pressure in Glennon's face at least twice forcing an incomplete and an interception. I can see how he'll fit. Looks like a comparable physical talent to Brandon Thompson and Ta'Amu but isn't as quick/explosive off the snap. I'd assume our guys rated him as a better run defender though.
I cannot believe that for 1 minute. Both of those guys are 'A' run stoppers who are non existent as pass rushers. If Hughes is better then it must be because he can be a better pass rusher.
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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If we're sitting with the #1 or #2 pick next year and Logan Thomas is available, I think it would be extremely hard to pass. Off the charts Newton like skill set that ideally would need at least a season to be ready and by that time Weeden would be 31. In essence Weeden becomes a high end bridge for 2-4 seasons, depending on how good he is. We wouldn't have to worry about the QB position for the next 8-10 years.

Our schedule is brutal. If we somehow manage a nice season this year then Weeden and the coaching staff will have more than proven themselves.
Logan Thomas didn't start playing QB till his junior year in High School. He is terribly raw at this point and will need years to come up to snuff even if he is talented enough.
Holmgren/Heckert would look rather foolish and stupid if they draft a QB in round 1, 2 years in a row, you'd really have to question their skill at assessing talent if that came to pass. We are hardly in a position to be wasting a 1st round pick on 2 QB's, I think it is just wishful thinking to even suggest this scenario.
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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Logan Thomas doesn't impress me that much. Not a great passer, especially in the accuracy department. Very raw and the Va Tech passing offense struggled last year when they played decent defenses (and Clemson, who isn't a decent defense, haha). I like Barkley, Wilson, Bray, and Geno Smith better....at least at this point. It doesn't matter though, we won't pick a QB next year after taking Weeden.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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I guess Thomas is my man crush heading into this season. I'm just not sure of the viability of Weeden being a long term solution at his age. Thomas is raw, yes, I'm just projecting what kind of development he'll show by next April.

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I cannot believe that for 1 minute. Both of those guys are 'A' run stoppers who are non existent as pass rushers. If Hughes is better then it must be because he can be a better pass rusher.
He's got considerably longer arms then those two and was taken off the field on passing downs. Holds his ground better then Thompson and finds the ball better than Ta'Amu. If they didn't like him for his run stopping potential then it's a mystery to me.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:17 AM    (permalink
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It's not all about being a situational pass rusher either. It's about keeping Taylor and Rubin fresh. Those two played way too many snaps last year. Also, if your starter goes down, I'd rather have a solid all around DT who can fill in that what we had last year (though I think Paxson and Schaefering did an surprisingly admirable job). We were lucky we didn't have injuries last year on the D-Line. You can't have too many good defensive linemen. With John Hughes and Billy Winn in this draft I think we really upgraded our DT depth should injuries occur........and having a fresher Rubin and Taylor will make our run defense a lot better because in the fourth quarter last year at times our defense got worn down (week one against Cincinnati is the prime example - they shut down Benson all game until the Green fluke TD and then Benson ran at will).

Johnson and Acho give us better linebacker depth as well. We didn't really have anything behind our starters last year except Maiava, because Titus Brown (who was great in training camp/preseason) was hurt most of last year and every other backup was an UDFA scrub. maiva and brown weren't that special anyways, I think Johnson can be a starter in the NFL for a long time potentially. Coaching staff said he reminds them of Takeo Spikes.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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Browns President Mike Holmgren Says Drafting Brandon Weeden Was the Team’s “Plan B”

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Tom was fully on board, particularly after the receivers that we kind of coveted went. We always knew we liked Weeden now how do we do this? If Brandon would’ve been younger, people kind of got off him a little bit I think because of his age, because he’s 28-years-old. He’s in great shape and as he said to me in my interview with him, ‘Coach I’m not hurt or I haven’t done anything. I’ve got ten years in me good.’ By the time he’s got his ten years I’m 75-years-old and I will be okay.”
Great. Sound draft strategy there.
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Originally Posted by borg9 View Post
Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?
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Originally Posted by DBess View Post
....ask Brandon Weeden.
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Old 05-09-2012, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Did Browns reach with Hughes at No. 3?
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PFW’s Nolan Nawrocki erased Hughes as a potential steal with this blunt summary:

“Plodding, clogging, two-down nose tackle with limited upside. Could compete for a reserve job, but is the type you look to replace.”

Someone was terribly wrong about Hughes. Naturally, general manager Tom Heckert is convinced it is not him.

“John is a big, powerful, tough guy,” Heckert said. “I think he’s really good.

The guess is he will be groomed to be the No. 3 man in a tackle rotation and at first will play 15 to 20 snaps a game, mostly on running downs.

“I’m more of a run guy,” Hughes said. “I use my hands well to get off blocks.
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....ask Brandon Weeden.
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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wow. These guys are generally critical.

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C.H.F.F. - Overview: The Cold, Hard Football Facts generally frown upon teams that chase running backs so high in the draft – especially at the price the Browns paid: giving up four picks to move up one spot on the ladder to a team not likely to take Richardson from them. The reality is that the difference between a super-elite running back and a your everyday ordinary free agent RB is actually pretty slim as measured by average per attempt – so running backs are often largely overvalued. It was one of the worst moves of the draft, actually: almost as bad as the Falcons chasing Shiny Hood Ornament Julio Jones in the 2011 draft.

With that said, Cleveland pretty much had a banner draft. Richardson does in fact fill a statistical need. The Browns last year were 31st running the football, averaging just 3.7 YPA. So there is statistical justification for the decision to draft Richardson, even if he was overvalued.

Plus, the Browns also drafted a potential franchise quarterback later in the first round to attempt to find a solution to their biggest problem in 2011, a dreadful passing attack. Quite frankly, the 1985 Bears would have been lucky to do much better than 4-12 with the same passing agame Cleveland put on the field last year.

Weeden is interesting for two reasons. One, he’s a dinosaur by the standards of a rookie pro athlete. He turns 29 in October, which makes him older than 2010 Super Bowl champ and 2011 NFL MVP Aaron Rodgers of Green Bay and just a year younger than Pittsburgh’s two-time Super Bowl champ Ben Roethlisberger. And two, Weeden produced quite a season in 2011. He lit up the Big 12 with record numbers while knocking off each of the three QBs taken ahead of him: Ryan Tannehill, Robert Griffin III and Andrew Luck in the Fiesta Bowl. Pretty intriguing.

Meanwhile, Cleveland still drafted more players in 2012 (11) than any other team and took big steps to shore up the biggest weakness on a relatively sold defense: a front unit that ranked No. 26 on our Defensive Hog Index.

Fillability Grade: A-
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Originally Posted by borg9 View Post
Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?
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Originally Posted by DBess View Post
....ask Brandon Weeden.
Pre-Draft 2014 Mock *FULL DRAFT*
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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An injury-prone running back....missed his entire soph. year of high school with a serious ankle injury. The facts on 1st rd rbs...
since 02
1st rd rbs--28
voted to pro bowl--9 (32%)
average draft position--18.2
ave yds season--729
ave yds rb picked 1-10--741
ave yds rb picked 11-20--665
ave yds rb picked 21-32--746
1st rd rbs 2011 pro bowl 0...wall street journal

A 29 year old qb throwing from the spread in college...in effect trading phil taylor and weeden for julio jones..Holmgren pulled rank on heckert to take him, so just as reid ran it in philly, holmgren runs it here.
Reach for Blackmon or take Claiborne
Reiff (sp?) at 22
ga tech wr at 37
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