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Old 12-07-2011, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
Here's an interesting podcast tidbit from National Football Post

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Draft-Talk-120.html

(I stole this summary from a Browns board)

Some sound bites on Tannehill:
- Both analysts feel Tannehill will leap frog Barkley by draft time.
- Agree Barkley is probably a better prospect today - but Tannehill's ceiling is much higher.
- Concerned with Barkley's height - suspect 6'2, and limited physically
- Spoke to some of RT's issues this season was a combination of coaching on its way out, Fuller's bad season, and his development.
- Love RT's arm, smarts and intelligence - while agree needs development, but in the right system could be a top NFL QB.

Some sound bites on Kendall Wright:
- Explosive
- Should sneak into the first round - potentially the first half
- Shifty, polished route runner, has developed well from last year, has learned how to beat press coverage
- Can make impact outside and in the slot
- Comparisons: Mike Wallace, Steve Smith
I was also somewhat disappointed with Tannehill but still like him as a prospect and can see how his season can be attributed to the issues addressed above. I think Fuller's subpar senior campaign hurt RT. I can't really blame the coaching on it's way out though since the coaching staff would of stayed in place if they won. I do blame the coaching staff for not being able to protect double digit leads. I also do not think the coaching staff did it's best to help Tannehill grow as a QB. I think Sherman showed himself to be a pretty mediocre head coach which hurt RT as well.

I won't be surprised if he ends up going in the first round and I wouldn't consider it much of a reach either. Luck, Barkley, Griffin and Tannehill are all likely first round picks. Luck and Barkley are probably as at their max potential right now and Griffin/Tannehill are the guys that a team drafts based on upside/potential.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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barkley mentioned in an interview a while back that he has been measured at around 6'2 1/2.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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Obviously scouts/evaluators feel that Tannehill's problems can be fixed with coaching and that he can be a great QB if he corrects those flaws. They were talking mostly about how good Tannehill is (they freaking love RT over on NFP to death) moreso than hating on Barkley. I don't think people are gonna crap on Barkley like they did on Quinn or Clausen, but his tools are closer to Andy Dalton or Christian Ponder than they are other top QB prospects so his stock might be limited, though teams really loved Ponder and Dalton a lot last year and caused them to rise despite not playing at USC like Dalton did or not putting up Barkley's #s in Ponder's case.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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On the topic of Tannehill, for all the struggles Tannehill had down the stretch, remember this....there was a QB taken last year who in his senior year had 4 games with less than 75 yards passing and finished the season with a 55% completion percentage who still went in the Top 10 because of his superior physical tools. I still wouldn't rule Tannehill out as a potential top 15 pick as he should be very impressive in his workouts leading up to the draft.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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As the last combine showed, QB's have a lot to prove when they get there and anything can happen. Luck probably stays home since he is practically guaranteed to go #1 overall but Barkley, RG111 and Tannehill will all get a shot to show where they belong in the rankings away from their systems and college talent.
I like them in this order but it certainly isn't set in stone:

RG111 - besides his obvious physical tools, his intangibles are right there with Luck's
Barkley, - You don't downgrade a player for having great talent around him but it raises a few concerns vis a vie his overall talent level. The combine should solve that.
Tannehill may have a high ceiling but will he ever get there. The QB's above him currently have far less questions but again, the combine could bring him to the forefront.
As for guessing the height and weights of prospects, we'll just have to be patient until the Senior Bowl and the Combine before we know, it is senseless guessing.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
As the last combine showed, QB's have a lot to prove when they get there and anything can happen. Luck probably stays home since he is practically guaranteed to go #1 overall but Barkley, RG111 and Tannehill will all get a shot to show where they belong in the rankings away from their systems and college talent.
I like them in this order but it certainly isn't set in stone:

RG111 - besides his obvious physical tools, his intangibles are right there with Luck's
Barkley, - You don't downgrade a player for having great talent around him but it raises a few concerns vis a vie his overall talent level. The combine should solve that.
Tannehill may have a high ceiling but will he ever get there. The QB's above him currently have far less questions but again, the combine could bring him to the forefront.
As for guessing the height and weights of prospects, we'll just have to be patient until the Senior Bowl and the Combine before we know, it is senseless guessing.

We can't know that for sure. By all accounts he is a bright kid as well who has no character concerns. If he gets paired up with a QB guru I am sure he can tap into his potential.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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Tannehill has thrown a ton of INTs this year. I have not watched him. For those that have, how does coaching or surrounding talent account for those? Bad WR routes? Passes bouncing off receiver's hands?
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Old 12-07-2011, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Tannehill has thrown a ton of INTs this year. I have not watched him. For those that have, how does coaching or surrounding talent account for those? Bad WR routes? Passes bouncing off receiver's hands?
Not too say that he hasn't made some poor decisions with the football, but I can think of several INT's off the top of my head that fit that description.
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Old 12-07-2011, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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Not too say that he hasn't made some poor decisions with the football, but I can think of several INT's off the top of my head that fit that description.
Yup. He's also not very nuanced in his reads and going through an entire progression. When the primary and secondary aren't open, he tends to throw blind into coverage.

Not to say I think he'll end up the best, but he's still my favorite QB in this class.
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Old 12-07-2011, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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This conversation has gotten so ridiculous that my head is starting to hurt. There is aparently a group of posters who are trying to lead the sheep into believing Tannehill will be a better NFL QB than Barkley and that's just crap.

Wouldn't doubt it if those people were Jake Locker over Cam Newton fans last season either. Don't buy the hype!

This is the time of year where people want to build their foundations for their "I told you so" statements down the line.

Barkley is the superior QB now and will be in the future.

Here's a rule: Never buy the hype for the QBs who have high potential over the guy that can do it now. Never.

You'll always have guys who hype up the Ryan Leaf's over Peyton Manning's at draft time. But they'll lead you off a clifff into overrating guys like Akili Smith, David Carr, Kyle Boller, JP Losman, Jason Campbell, and worst of all... Jamarcus Russell (the icon poster boy for the "QB potential" hypers)!

That's why Blaine Gabbard gets taken early in Round 1 and a guy with less upside like Andy Dalton gets slid to Round 2. I tried to tell you that Cam was superior to Locker last year, but the Locker supporters have lost.... and lost badly.

This year, don't believe those who want to sway you to believe Tannehill will be better than Barkley.

...then again, I'm a USC homer who told you that Taylor Mays is a God. :D

Have fun! Choose your sides wisely!
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Old 12-07-2011, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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I feel like I have a pretty good track history with USC players.

Again, I don't think Barkley is a terrible prospect. I think he's Matt Hasselback. There's nothing wrong with that.

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Old 12-07-2011, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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Here's a rule: Never buy the hype for the QBs who have high potential over the guy that can do it now. Never.
Huh? You say this and then spend the rest of your post telling everyone how much you liked Cam? Cam was the ultimate high risk/high reward QB whoes biggest knock was his lack of perceived pro-readiness.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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Huh? You say this and then spend the rest of your post telling everyone how much you liked Cam? Cam was the ultimate high risk/high reward QB whoes biggest knock was his lack of perceived pro-readiness.
The entire Locker vs. Cam argument doesn't make sense. They were both that. Dalton, I can see. Or Mallett (he fell for off-the-field reasons, but a lot of people really didn't like him pre-draft - he was my favorite QB of last year's crop).

I also don't understand how Jason Campbell is a high-upside guy. There was nothing elite about his game as a prospect.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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This conversation has gotten so ridiculous that my head is starting to hurt. There is aparently a group of posters who are trying to lead the sheep into believing Tannehill will be a better NFL QB than Barkley and that's just crap.

Wouldn't doubt it if those people were Jake Locker over Cam Newton fans last season either. Don't buy the hype!

This is the time of year where people want to build their foundations for their "I told you so" statements down the line.

Barkley is the superior QB now and will be in the future.

Here's a rule: Never buy the hype for the QBs who have high potential over the guy that can do it now. Never.

You'll always have guys who hype up the Ryan Leaf's over Peyton Manning's at draft time. But they'll lead you off a clifff into overrating guys like Akili Smith, David Carr, Kyle Boller, JP Losman, Jason Campbell, and worst of all... Jamarcus Russell (the icon poster boy for the "QB potential" hypers)!

That's why Blaine Gabbard gets taken early in Round 1 and a guy with less upside like Andy Dalton gets slid to Round 2. I tried to tell you that Cam was superior to Locker last year, but the Locker supporters have lost.... and lost badly.

This year, don't believe those who want to sway you to believe Tannehill will be better than Barkley.

...then again, I'm a USC homer who told you that Taylor Mays is a God. :D

Have fun! Choose your sides wisely!
I like Barkley alot, I think you can plug him in and he is going to be a very good starter in this league. He is the second best QB behind Luck. He is a polished prospect, Tannehill on the other hand is raw so their is that untapped potential which makes him alluring.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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I feel like I have a pretty good track history with USC players.

Again, I don't think Barkley is a terrible prospect. I think he's Matt Hasselback. There's nothing wrong with that.
How does this make sense, though? I mean the entire staff is different, the players are different. The schemes, and even the strength and conditioning coach is dfferent. The only thing these players have in common is the school they went to.

So it's like saying, I knew Matt Leinart was going to bust so i have credentials to say Matt Barkley will bust.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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Tannehill has thrown a ton of INTs this year. I have not watched him. For those that have, how does coaching or surrounding talent account for those? Bad WR routes? Passes bouncing off receiver's hands?
As Tackle already pointed out, there's some of the bad routes and tough breaks that I can think of off the top of my head. Tannehill has made the type of mistakes you would expect from a guy with a year and a half of starting experience under his belt, but some of it hasn't been his fault. Jeff Fuller has disappeared off the face of the earth this year and has cutting off his routes, to point out one guy is specific.

In spite of that, I would still put Tannehill fairly firmly behind Griffin and Barkley, in that order. There's some things I'm not sure quite check out about Barkley and I've been up and down on him, but at the very least he's got a very high floor and is a great bet to be an average starter in the NFL, which is certainly worth a first round pick if you're sure about it. Still has potential to be a lot more as well.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Huh? You say this and then spend the rest of your post telling everyone how much you liked Cam? Cam was the ultimate high risk/high reward QB whoes biggest knock was his lack of perceived pro-readiness.
No his biggest knocks were his shady dealings which made people question his character, in addition to knocks on his smarts and accuracy. But I tried to tell people that his shady dealings were not equated to his personality character traits/leadership/charisma/etc etc. He was born pro ready in that department. His readiness as far as what he could accomplish on the football field was no doubt. His size and ability to be successful as a runner from the start was never in question, and in fact his arm strength was MORE THAN pro ready.

The high risk/high reward label was only there for the doubters who believed in the risk. He was high reward all the way.

Locker did NOTHING on the field and has the persoanlity of a dead fish on a slab...yet everyone praised his attributes. Very few things about him was pro ready.

So that's where I'm coming from.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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The entire Locker vs. Cam argument doesn't make sense. They were both that. Dalton, I can see. Or Mallett (he fell for off-the-field reasons, but a lot of people really didn't like him pre-draft - he was my favorite QB of last year's crop).

I also don't understand how Jason Campbell is a high-upside guy. There was nothing elite about his game as a prospect.
Campbell's arm strength was raaaaved about. He was all hype coming off of Auburn's perfect season. That's why he landed in Round 1. If he was 5'10, he wouldn't have had a second look. His size, arm strength and throwing motion had scouts fixated when he started hitting his targets in predraft activities. Bleh.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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because cam had a big rookie season and locker's being brought along slowly? what is this, 'reggie bush is the best rb in the nfl' part 2?

and who is blaine gabbard?
You believing in Locker is going to be your version of my Reggie Bush story. LOL.
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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This conversation has gotten so ridiculous that my head is starting to hurt. There is aparently a group of posters who are trying to lead the sheep into believing Tannehill will be a better NFL QB than Barkley and that's just crap.

Wouldn't doubt it if those people were Jake Locker over Cam Newton fans last season either. Don't buy the hype!

This is the time of year where people want to build their foundations for their "I told you so" statements down the line.

Barkley is the superior QB now and will be in the future.

Here's a rule: Never buy the hype for the QBs who have high potential over the guy that can do it now. Never.

You'll always have guys who hype up the Ryan Leaf's over Peyton Manning's at draft time. But they'll lead you off a clifff into overrating guys like Akili Smith, David Carr, Kyle Boller, JP Losman, Jason Campbell, and worst of all... Jamarcus Russell (the icon poster boy for the "QB potential" hypers)!

That's why Blaine Gabbard gets taken early in Round 1 and a guy with less upside like Andy Dalton gets slid to Round 2. I tried to tell you that Cam was superior to Locker last year, but the Locker supporters have lost.... and lost badly.

This year, don't believe those who want to sway you to believe Tannehill will be better than Barkley.

...then again, I'm a USC homer who told you that Taylor Mays is a God. :D

Have fun! Choose your sides wisely!
See this is what bothers me. Why cant we just say Cam Newton has had a great year and Jake Locker hasnt played per Tennesse's strategy. Why does a positive have to be offset by a negative?
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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Campbell's arm strength was raaaaved about. He was all hype coming off of Auburn's perfect season. That's why he landed in Round 1. If he was 5'10, he wouldn't have had a second look. His size, arm strength and throwing motion had scouts fixated when he started hitting his targets in predraft activities. Bleh.
I don't necessarily remember Campbell being raved about universally by scouts. I thought most people were pretty perplexed when the reports started surfacing that the Redskins were really set on him in late round one. Dunno how many other teams were, but with the draft, it only takes one team to fall in love.

He had size and above average arm strength. His release was and still is horrendously slow. I dunno, I never saw him as one of those ridiculous upside guys.
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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Again, I don't think Barkley is a terrible prospect. I think he's Matt Hasselback. There's nothing wrong with that.
The thing is, when you look at the entire set of 227 QBs drafted during the 20 year period from 1983 to 2002, Hasselback has had a top-25 career. The top-40 includes guys like Steve Beuerlein, Aaron Brooks, and Mark Rypien. Most years there won't be more than one guy who puts together a better career than Hasselback.

Casual draftniks (and usually professional scouts, as well) seriously overestimate the floor of prospects. Hasselback would have been a top-5 pick and the 2nd QB drafted in 1998, if teams had known what they know now.

I guess that my point is that we should temper our enthusiasm about all of these guys. Most of them will be doing well if they can make it to journeyman status in the NFL.

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Old 12-07-2011, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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The only reason Jason Campbell went in the first is because Joe Gibbs thought he was the second coming of Doug Williams. Campbell wasn't a lock first rounder or even graded out to be one.
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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Campbell's arm strength was raaaaved about. He was all hype coming off of Auburn's perfect season. That's why he landed in Round 1. If he was 5'10, he wouldn't have had a second look. His size, arm strength and throwing motion had scouts fixated when he started hitting his targets in predraft activities. Bleh.
So basically, if he were Russell Wilson.
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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that doesn't really make any sense. it's like suggesting that aaron rodgers was never going to amount to anything because alex smith had better stats his rookie year. jake locker's future success has nothing to do with cam newton's current success, and suggesting that he's already a failure for it is pretty akin to suggesting that a player is a hall of famer prior to his playing a down. just on the opposite end.

and i say all of that knowing that i was way off on cam's ability to keep his head on straight and make nfl reads.
You have a really interesting way of making 1 + 1 = 2. What you said was neither here or there, but I'll make it simple. When Jake Locker fails, I'll remember to call you out on it every chance I get like you do with me and Reggie Bush. k? hahaha.
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