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Old 01-11-2012, 01:13 PM    (permalink
BeerBaron
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Tice is a very good OC. I don't understand why he has a bad rep.

Mularkey is a good OC too. I think we'll all see that this coming year when we discover that the "conservative" offense he ran was protecting Matt Ryan this whole time.
Tice was never an OC before and seemed like a meathead in charge of Minnesota. OL coach to HC to OL coach.

For as lousy as our o-line has been, I've been impressed with him as the position coach. He made that crap line look about as good as anyone could. I mean, J'Marcus ******* Webb was our LT. And Frank Omiyele is ****** at every position he plays. And Roberto Garza was looking crappy at guard, so we moved him to center and extended him...

God damn Jerry Angelo.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Do the owners give a **** who the players want to play for?

Davin Joseph on Marty-
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“Marty Schottenheimer,” Joseph responded when asked if he felt excited about any of the coaching prospects.

“I heard his name, because I remember back when he coached in San Diego. They had the power run scheme and they were just awesome. You know, that’s when [LaDanian Tomlinson] had his better years. They were just playing some serious ball.

“Of course, their whole thing was that when they got to the playoffs, they just weren’t playing good. They just lose in the playoffs every time they got there. But I’m like, ‘Shoot, I’d like to get there.’ I’d like to get there. … You’re talking about a guy who loves to play some power football.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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Tice was never an OC before and seemed like a meathead in charge of Minnesota. OL coach to HC to OL coach.

For as lousy as our o-line has been, I've been impressed with him as the position coach. He made that crap line look about as good as anyone could. I mean, J'Marcus ******* Webb was our LT. And Frank Omiyele is ****** at every position he plays. And Roberto Garza was looking crappy at guard, so we moved him to center and extended him...

God damn Jerry Angelo.
Yes he was. You don't remember the Randy Ratio?

He was also a OC in Jacksonville before coming to Chicago. The one good year Garrard had was under him.

And look what he did with your oline. He turned dog **** from 3 weeks ago into a fresh pile of dog ****. And that alone is a miracle.

Tice is a good OC. I'm starting to discover that as fans, we all hate our OCs and our olines. When you hear a fan complain about his team's offense, the first guy who gets it is the OC, then the oline. Every time. But the truth is somewhere in btw, and we kill those guys unfairly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the biggest Gilbride fan myself, and I generally dislike most OCs as well, but there's only so much a coach can do. Sometimes you gotta realize your players are simply not good enough to get the job done.

Like, let's be real. Outside of Cutler and Forte, that entire Bears offense is a pile of dogshit. Not a single player outside those 2 is anything more than a JAG at best. I don't care if you have Bill Walsh calling plays, there's only so much a coach can do with the talent he has.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Yes he was. You don't remember the Randy Ratio?

He was also a OC in Jacksonville before coming to Chicago. The one good year Garrard had was under him.

And look what he did with your oline. He turned dog **** from 3 weeks ago into a fresh pile of dog ****. And that alone is a miracle.

Tice is a good OC. I'm starting to discover that as fans, we all hate our OCs and our olines. When you hear a fan complain about his team's offense, the first guy who gets it is the OC, then the oline. Every time. But the truth is somewhere in btw, and we kill those guys unfairly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the biggest Gilbride fan myself, and I generally dislike most OCs as well, but there's only so much a coach can do. Sometimes you gotta realize your players are simply not good enough to get the job done.

Like, let's be real. Outside of Cutler and Forte, that entire Bears offense is a pile of dogshit. Not a single player outside those 2 is anything more than a JAG at best. I don't care if you have Bill Walsh calling plays, there's only so much a coach can do with the talent he has.
Nothing I can find says anything about him being an offensive coordinator until now, nor anything about calling plays.



Anyway, some offensive coordinators deserve the hate they get. Perhaps not as much as they do, but someone like Cam Cameron makes me want to rage. There is no god damned circumstance in which it's acceptable for Ray Rice to get 6 carries in a game. None. There is no justification for that. He tries to look like a creative playcalling genius by building up a passing attack and it typically hurts the Ravens more than it helps. He just wants to be a head coach again and those opportunities don't come up for offensive coordinators who run the ball a lot.

And speaking of Gilbride, stop running those ******* draw plays. They don't ******* work. It's ******* stupid to see Brandon Jacobs crash forward for a yard on 3rd and 4 because Gilbride decided to run a ******* draw.

And these types don't seem to learn anything from game to game. For example, last year, Mike Martz got Cutler beat the **** up early in the season trying to run his horseshit system. He'd go for a 7 step drop with idiot receivers running long, slow developing routes and get Cutler crushed. It didn't register to him that J'Marcus Webb is not ******* Orlando Pace. Then he wisened up and started getting away from his system to where Cutler was having some success.

Stupid me thought he'd keep that going into this season...but no, I was mistaken. Instead, he went right back to his ****** system as if one offseason would fix all the problems it had. Gets Cutler killed for few weeks, then adjusts. Cutler was rolling until he got hurt. And then once Hanie comes in...back to the stupid system and dumb plays. (Go see that late first half interception vs. the Raiders. Why the **** do you even call that play?)

I dream of the day where some offensive coordinator has the smarts to not go in with a system, but have the philosophy that he'll just build one based on the talent he has on hand. They never do that though because it's more fun and it'll get you more head coaching interviews to have a 8324 page playbook that takes 3 full seasons for the offense to master. For some reason.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Nothing I can find says anything about him being an offensive coordinator until now, nor anything about calling plays.



Anyway, some offensive coordinators deserve the hate they get. Perhaps not as much as they do, but someone like Cam Cameron makes me want to rage. There is no god damned circumstance in which it's acceptable for Ray Rice to get 6 carries in a game. None. There is no justification for that. He tries to look like a creative playcalling genius by building up a passing attack and it typically hurts the Ravens more than it helps. He just wants to be a head coach again and those opportunities don't come up for offensive coordinators who run the ball a lot.

And speaking of Gilbride, stop running those ******* draw plays. They don't ******* work. It's ******* stupid to see Brandon Jacobs crash forward for a yard on 3rd and 4 because Gilbride decided to run a ******* draw.

And these types don't seem to learn anything from game to game. For example, last year, Mike Martz got Cutler beat the **** up early in the season trying to run his horseshit system. He'd go for a 7 step drop with idiot receivers running long, slow developing routes and get Cutler crushed. It didn't register to him that J'Marcus Webb is not ******* Orlando Pace. Then he wisened up and started getting away from his system to where Cutler was having some success.

Stupid me thought he'd keep that going into this season...but no, I was mistaken. Instead, he went right back to his ****** system as if one offseason would fix all the problems it had. Gets Cutler killed for few weeks, then adjusts. Cutler was rolling until he got hurt. And then once Hanie comes in...back to the stupid system and dumb plays. (Go see that late first half interception vs. the Raiders. Why the **** do you even call that play?)

I dream of the day where some offensive coordinator has the smarts to not go in with a system, but have the philosophy that he'll just build one based on the talent he has on hand. They never do that though because it's more fun and it'll get you more head coaching interviews to have a 8324 page playbook that takes 3 full seasons for the offense to master. For some reason.
I'm pretty sure the offense that was run in Minny when he was HC was his playbook. And if I recall correctly, when he was Asst HC of the Jags, it was reported that they added a lot of his plays into the playbook and Garrard credited him for a lot of his success that year.

But anyway, I agree with everything you said. You're preaching to the choir. I'm talking in more general terms. Like when fans say "why didn't we open up the playbook?" or "why aren't we throwing it deep?" Those general statements are the ones I have an issue with.

Bc they are inaccurate 95% of the time. Most plays have a built in deep route in it. In fact, a lot of plays have 2 sometimes 3 guys going deep. You didn't go deep in the game bc

1. the defense took it away with a lot of 2 deep looks or
2. your qb simply failed to identify the open man down the field or
3. your oline didn't give enough time for the routes to develop


Now to me, credible complaints about your offense are:

1. Run the ball more. As we both have said many times in the past, this is my single biggest problem with most OCs in the game.
2. Do a better job of adjusting protections. Chip, max protect, throw some screens to counter an aggressive front, run the ball to slow down the dline, etc.
3. Mix up your formations. For example, Gary Kubiak is the best OC in the game at this. Houston pretty much runs the same 9 to 10 plays over and over again on offense. But they do it out of a multitude of formations, packages, and motions and that creates a ton of confusion for the defense.
4. Clock management.

Those are credible complaints. But when I hear all the other stuff, I have to disagree with it. None of us fans know the true complexity of any offense bc none of us have the playbook. Do you have option routes, how deep was he supposed to run that skinny? What protections are available for that formation and play and what can the qb adjust at the LOS? What can he audible to? Is he allowed to audible? Are there blitz beater routes in the play or do WRs have to identify the hot?

There's so much more to offensive football than any of us know.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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I dream of the day where some offensive coordinator has the smarts to not go in with a system, but have the philosophy that he'll just build one based on the talent he has on hand. They never do that though because it's more fun and it'll get you more head coaching interviews to have a 8324 page playbook that takes 3 full seasons for the offense to master. For some reason.

I imagining Mularkey's interview playbook looking more like a crayon drawing of MJD running straight ahead into a wall.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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1. Run the ball more. As we both have said many times in the past, this is my single biggest problem with most OCs in the game.
2. Do a better job of adjusting protections. Chip, max protect, throw some screens to counter an aggressive front, run the ball to slow down the dline, etc.
3. Mix up your formations. For example, Gary Kubiak is the best OC in the game at this. Houston pretty much runs the same 9 to 10 plays over and over again on offense. But they do it out of a multitude of formations, packages, and motions and that creates a ton of confusion for the defense.
4. Clock management.
Indeed, those are typically my biggest complaints with any given coordinator.

#3 is also a good description for the Saints. People look at them and thing "wow, they must be running wide open sets all the time!" but it's totally contrary to that.

They might line up with just 2 WRs more than anyone. They always have at least one TE and usually another one and/or a FB. And they can sub in literally any WR, TE or RB on their roster and be effective. As long as the o-line blocks and Drew Brees is Drew Brees, the Saints offense will be successful no matter what skill position players are on the field.

Mmmmm...Saints offense...
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Indeed, those are typically my biggest complaints with any given coordinator.

#3 is also a good description for the Saints. People look at them and thing "wow, they must be running wide open sets all the time!" but it's totally contrary to that.

They might line up with just 2 WRs more than anyone. They always have at least one TE and usually another one and/or a FB. And they can sub in literally any WR, TE or RB on their roster and be effective. As long as the o-line blocks and Drew Brees is Drew Brees, the Saints offense will be successful no matter what skill position players are on the field.

Mmmmm...Saints offense...
Yup. Payton is a brilliant OC. I love what the Pats do as well, but they need a deep threat in the worst way. Love Kubiak's offense. I'm one of the few who likes Sparano's offense.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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I imagining Mularkey's interview playbook looking more like a crayon drawing of MJD running straight ahead into a wall.
The Mike Mularkey Jaguars Playbook:



Occasionally it'll go left too.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Mularkey is a good OC too. I think we'll all see that this coming year when we discover that the "conservative" offense he ran was protecting Matt Ryan this whole time.
He certainly wasn't protecting Matt Ryan when he was under the impression Julio Jones was Randy Moss and we needed to toss 5 bombs to him every game. He uses his offensive resources poorly, and he's extremely predictable/stubborn. Rough combo.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Yup. Payton is a brilliant OC. I love what the Pats do as well, but they need a deep threat in the worst way. Love Kubiak's offense. I'm one of the few who likes Sparano's offense.
As has been said, they'll get Brandon Lloyd and a 4th round pick and deal with it!
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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The Mike Mularkey Jaguars Playbook:



Occasionally it'll go left too.
Gabbert still finds a way to **** it up. He sucks. I will say it again....Matt Barkley...U ready to be a Jaguar???
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Gabbert still finds a way to **** it up. He sucks.


Don't you worry. There's still going to be those constant 3rd and 8s where Gabbert shits himself because the pass rush is coming.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Don't you worry. There's still going to be those constant 3rd and 8s where Gabbert shits himself because the pass rush is coming.
WHEW, I was gonna miss those. Especially for the 4 primetime games the Jaguars inexplicibly get every year.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Don't you worry. There's still going to be those constant 3rd and 8s where Gabbert shits himself because the pass rush is coming.
3rd and 8 after two straight runs up the middle by MJD for 1 YPC.

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WHEW, I was gonna miss those. Especially for the 4 primetime games the Jaguars inexplicibly get every year.
4? They're going to get all of the Monday night games next year. ALL OF THEM.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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As has been said, they'll get Brandon Lloyd and a 4th round pick and deal with it!

That was me damnit.

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3rd and 8 after two straight runs up the middle by MJD for 1 YPC.
Precisely.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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As has been said, they'll get Brandon Lloyd and a 4th round pick and deal with it!
I'd love to see Moss back on the Patriots.

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He certainly wasn't protecting Matt Ryan when he was under the impression Julio Jones was Randy Moss and we needed to toss 5 bombs to him every game. He uses his offensive resources poorly, and he's extremely predictable/stubborn. Rough combo.
So when he runs the ball he's conservative, and when he tries to air it out he's not using his resources properly. So wth is he supposed to do?

The Falcons were always at their best when Turner was running the rock. It's been said over and over again, stop the Falcons run game, and you stop the Falcons offense. At least outside that dome that's the blueprint. Has been for 3 years now.

And it's not like theres a lack of weapons. I'm not gonna sit here and say Matt Ryan is a bad qb, bc that's not true at all, but I think more fingers need to be pointed in his direction for the issues you guys have on offense.

I like a lot of things that Ryan does, but he's really gotta improve as a downfield passer. That's the real culprit of your offensive issues.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Nothing I can find says anything about him being an offensive coordinator until now, nor anything about calling plays.
What I've read is that he called plays Linehan's first year as OC and helped adjust to the position and did the same for the new OC in '05. Maybe a Vikings fan can confirm.

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I dream of the day where some offensive coordinator has the smarts to not go in with a system, but have the philosophy that he'll just build one based on the talent he has on hand. They never do that though because it's more fun and it'll get you more head coaching interviews to have a 8324 page playbook that takes 3 full seasons for the offense to master. For some reason.
You should read some of the recent interviews with Tice because he describes exactly this. Could be BS but he's always been a straight forward guy.
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/New...?story_id=8558

Tice said the offense will “first of all utilize the talents of our players and define match-ups each week, whether that’s for or against. Sometimes we’re going to have match-ups [where] we have to protect certain players. But I think there are going to be some match-ups each week that we have to make sure we take advantage of.

On Cutler-
"We’re going to make sure that Jay Cutler is comfortable in the pocket,” Tice said. “We’re going to make sure that he’s able to set his feet. We’re going to make sure that we use a different variety of launch points for him and not always have him right behind the center.

"We’re going to look back at some of the things he was successful with at Denver and the things that he really embraced and liked and also the things that he and I talked about, maybe some of the things we did with Daunte Culpepper in Minnesota and even David Garrard in Jacksonville."

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Old 01-11-2012, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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What I've read is that he called plays Linehan's first year as OC and helped adjust to the position and did the same for the new OC in '05. Maybe a Vikings fan can confirm.

You should read some of the recent interviews with Tice because he describes exactly this. Could be BS but he's always been a straight forward guy.
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/New...?story_id=8558

Tice said the offense will “first of all utilize the talents of our players and define match-ups each week, whether that’s for or against. Sometimes we’re going to have match-ups [where] we have to protect certain players. But I think there are going to be some match-ups each week that we have to make sure we take advantage of.

On Cutler-
"We’re going to make sure that Jay Cutler is comfortable in the pocket,” Tice said. “We’re going to make sure that he’s able to set his feet. We’re going to make sure that we use a different variety of launch points for him and not always have him right behind the center.

"We’re going to look back at some of the things he was successful with at Denver and the things that he really embraced and liked and also the things that he and I talked about, maybe some of the things we did with Daunte Culpepper in Minnesota and even David Garrard in Jacksonville."
Aye, i linked to that on the last page. At first I wasn't crazy about the promotion, but was thinking that maybe he'd be more of an offensive philosophy setter while a QB coach or someone actually calls the plays.

It sounds like Tice will be in charge of the whole shebang. It'll be interesting to see... I don't doubt that priority #1 will be to protect Cutler, as it should be.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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So when he runs the ball he's conservative, and when he tries to air it out he's not using his resources properly. So wth is he supposed to do?

The Falcons were always at their best when Turner was running the rock. It's been said over and over again, stop the Falcons run game, and you stop the Falcons offense. At least outside that dome that's the blueprint. Has been for 3 years now.

And it's not like theres a lack of weapons. I'm not gonna sit here and say Matt Ryan is a bad qb, bc that's not true at all, but I think more fingers need to be pointed in his direction for the issues you guys have on offense.

I like a lot of things that Ryan does, but he's really gotta improve as a downfield passer. That's the real culprit of your offensive issues.

-Understand his players and put them in a position to succeed, as any offensive coordinator should. Julio's at his best working the middle of the field, making plays in space. Not trying to track the deep ball (his biggest weakness). And "conservative" with Mularkey is more of a big games issue. It's predictability. 3rd and 7 after two Turner runs up the gut? BOMB IT TO JULIO! It took Mularkey forever to realize this wasn't the most effective strategy. Once he finally did/we let Matt lead the no huddle attack more frequently in the middle of the year.. surprise, surprise, 6 of Ryan's last 9 games he had a QB Rating of over 110.


-Completely correct. And you know why that is? It's because Turner's getting the ball, always. If we have success running, awesome. If we don't, we're going to keep doing it until our "bend but don't break" defense breaks, which it always does. *See my complains about Mularkey calling the Giants game like it was going to be a defensive struggle* Then when we're down by a few scores, it's time to let Matt Ryan throw the ball a million times with a porous offensive line when everyone in the world knows we are going to throw it constantly. (See Giants Playoff game, Falcons vs. Texans)


-Agreed. Matt needs to improve his down the field throws. He's money on the post route, but his deep ball needs a serious work. Hopefully our new offensive coordinator will also do Matt a favor and mix in some high completion routes.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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DeCastro or Konz should be in a Chicago uniform next year. Whichever is available when you guys pick in the 1st.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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DeCastro or Konz should be in a Chicago uniform next year. Whichever is available when you guys pick in the 1st.
Either would be greatly appreciated. Plus, healthy Carimi. When he hurt his knee I had Marc Colombo nightmares.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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-Understand his players and put them in a position to succeed, as any offensive coordinator should. Julio's at his best working the middle of the field, making plays in space. Not trying to track the deep ball (his biggest weakness). And "conservative" with Mularkey is more of a big games issue. It's predictability. 3rd and 7 after two Turner runs up the gut? BOMB IT TO JULIO! It took Mularkey forever to realize this wasn't the most effective strategy. Once he finally did/we let Matt lead the no huddle attack more frequently in the middle of the year.. surprise, surprise, 6 of Ryan's last 9 games he had a QB Rating of over 110.


-Completely correct. And you know why that is? It's because Turner's getting the ball, always. If we have success running, awesome. If we don't, we're going to keep doing it until our "bend but don't break" defense breaks, which it always does. *See my complains about Mularkey calling the Giants game like it was going to be a defensive struggle* Then when we're down by a few scores, it's time to let Matt Ryan throw the ball a million times with a porous offensive line when everyone in the world knows we are going to throw it constantly. (See Giants Playoff game, Falcons vs. Texans)


-Agreed. Matt needs to improve his down the field throws. He's money on the post route, but his deep ball needs a serious work. Hopefully our new offensive coordinator will also do Matt a favor and mix in some high completion routes.
Ok, I can understand that.

Question. What is your opinion of the RB situation? Should Snelling be your primary back? Do you want a pass catching RB in the draft?

I'm of the opinion that if you guys go with a more spread out offense that employs more 3 WR sets, shotgun formations, and a more pass friendly RB, your offense will fail. Bc I feel that Ryan doesn't have the ability to stretch out the defense enough to make this style work.

I feel that you guys should invest in another TE who can block/catch, run a 2 TE offense with a combo RB like Snelling, and run an offense that allows Ryan to use those 2 TEs in the middle of the field with some occasional downfield throws to Roddy and Julio from PA pass. Perhaps check into some slants to Julio on 1st down when you see 8 in the box with man coverage on the outside. I feel that style of offense will suit Ryan the most.

Curious to know what you feel is best for the Falcons offense.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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DeCastro or Konz should be in a Chicago uniform next year. Whichever is available when you guys pick in the 1st.
Our interior offensive line actually did a pretty nice job this year.

My guess is that it will break down like this:

LT- Webb or Chris Williams
LG- Chris Spencer/Edwin Williams/Louis Lance
C- Roberto Garza
RG-Chris Spencer/Edwin Williams/Louis Lance
RT-Carimi

And I've been beating the drum for offensive line picks for a long time, but honestly, our interior depth is fine. Now that Cutler isn't taking 10 step drops, it should make a huge difference.

What we really need is a reliable WR and defensive depth. That should be our focus this offseason.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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I'd kindly disagree with the thought of not wanting to spread it out. Go watch the Falcons play, watch them run the no huddle and watch Matt call plays. He's exceptionally good in the 5 wide set, and it's not all about the deep throw to make that work, look at Green Bay, most of their big plays come off short routes that get broken for big gains.

I agree that we need another TE, but I don't know how early we can get one with the problems in the defensive backfield. But having another threat at that position would be good to start to allow us to transition away from Tony out there.

Personally I'd like to see the Falcons get a speed back with some hands to put out there and lose some of the sets with the fullback. Not eliminating it, but running more out of 3 wides than the i-formation. Harry Douglas if he comes back showed massive potential that was squandered based on putting a fullback on the field to run predictable run plays in predictable situations. Putting Julio, Roddy, Harry, Tony, and Turner on the field is a great set, but even better if we had a shifty back that is more along the lines of a Felix Jones or Run DMC that it would best use Matt's skillset.

He can throw the deep ball sometimes, but it's not called often enough to really allow for it to become consistent. Those 20-30 yard routes that get broken are where I think Julio shines, I also think it opens up the under stuff for Roddy and allowing him to break a tackle here or there and make big plays, but truthfully he's turning more into a Hines Ward as he gets older, and Julio is going to become the #1 explosive WR. Much like Roddy caught 100 balls this year, I expect him to settle somewhere in the 80-90 range, and Julio somewhere in the 70-80 range, where Roddy's still getting more targets, but Julio's going to be the one putting up better 'stats'.

Rodgers is going to be used more I'd assume, but I want someone back there as more of a game breaker, but I really do like Quiz back there. Snelling is a free agent and honestly I'd rather him not be brought back. He's a good player, but good is the enemy of great, and I like how he plays, but he's a jack of all trades master of none kind of guy. Those players are critical to teams, but I think Rodgers needs to get the touches Snelling did, and unless Snelling wants to be more of the fullback role, then I'd expect him to be gone. Not because he's a bad player, but because he's someone who doesn't offer something 'special' to the offense, and truthfully none of the Falcons backs bring something that makes you think 'special'. Turner brings that power and speed combo, it's great to have, but in this 'new' NFL he needs to display more decisiveness and explosion with his runs.
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