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Old 12-13-2011, 09:35 AM    (permalink
raynman
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i'm getting tired of seeing the panthers picking a DE when they are very happy with their DEs (with good reason) and they have so many other area of needs. it's a lazy pick, imo, and shows little understanding of the situation.

best thing to do in their spot right now is to trade down.

aside from that i would be looking at RT, CB, or WLB as the primary needs. DT needs addressed, but i doubt they use a 1st rounder, esp. there because it would be too much of a reach and they have too much youth there as it is.

RT- otah most likely won't be back and can't be relied on to start because he's fragile and he just doesn't want to play. ideal situation here would be kalil then starting him at LT and moving gross to RT. kalil will be gone way too early, though.

CB- not much needs be said here. gamble is a solid lockdown corner bordering on elite. we have solid depth in munnerlyn and butler (both of whom can handle the nickel) and we have an unknown kn brandon hogan, but we don't really have a solid starting answer across from gamble.

WLB/OLB- we lost thomas davis again. 3rd ACL tear in 2 years. pretty safe to say he can't be relied upon. anderson and beason are set, but we need that 3rd LB on the outside. panthers are planning on playing a good bit of 3-4 going forward so be thinking the prototypical Will. someone fast who can get at the passer and who can be decent in coverage.

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Old 12-13-2011, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by HorusKing View Post
I like the choice of a WR for the Houston Texans but not the player he will not test out good because he isn't in shape and is slow. I think that Kendall Wright makes more since or maybe even Tommy Streeter who is going to blow it out during his workout with his size & speed will be unmatched.
I agree, Wright and even Streeter are going to be far better pros IMO.
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
Because this is the Gabbert thread, doesn't anybody else remember that the consensus on him when he declared last year was "he should have gone back to school for another year"?

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The consensus was he had a real shot to be a solid pro.
Why can't we just count this as a sort of "redshirt year" and just wait to see if he actually can play? It's not like this "no offseason" thing is really all that easy on the rookie signal callers.
I do agree that it is absurd to write a QB off as a rookie, Eli didn't look like much till year 4 and Alex Smith was the scourge of everybody till this season and I could go on and on about rookie QB's.
Gabbert may well struggle for a couple of more years before blossoming. Jacksonville was probably the hardest spot for a rookie QB to come into. A lame duck HC, and very little talent around him.
Jacksonville won't be looking for another QB until at least 3 seasons have passed.
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Old 12-13-2011, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Please people. Do any of you even follow the Jaguars? Can you call yourself an expert of the team? Gabbert is the youngest starting QB in the league. He'll be the youngest QB ever to start 13 games. When Gabbert was drafted, the Jaguars stated from the outset that he would sit for a year because he was so raw. The idea was to play behind David Garrard and Luke McCown. Low and behold Garrard gets a back issue, gets cut and doesn't play another snap. McCown starts the season but is awful against the Jets, throwing 4 ill-advised INTs. Gabbert comes in for relief and ends up finishing the season as the starter. Gabbert's surrounding case has not been great. If you have watched all of the Jaguars' game you would understand that the only guys who have been consistently good are Eugene Monroe and Maurice Jones-Drew. Mike Sims-Walker was cut at the beginning of the season bc they didn't think he was worth the spot. The best WR in training camp was Mount Union's Cecil Shorts, who disappeared during the season. Mike Thomas and Jason Hill are your starters, but then Hill stinks so much that they cut him during the season, and he's the #1? Jarrett Dillard formerly of Rice is the most consistent performer now that he can get on the field, but the rest of the WRs are laughable. Chastin West? Kassim Osgood? Dillard? Yea, that's right, on Sunday, the Jaguars had 3 active WRs after Thomas and Shorts left the game with injuries. Marcedes Lewis spent the offseason learning MMA, where it obviously made him forget how to catch because he has dropped balls left and right and is only finally getting his act together. The offensive line is starting a rookie who started the season extremely overmatched and he was dominated. He is only just now getting his feet under him. Jags also lost their starting tackle and he was replaced by Guy Whimper....Guy Whimper, more like revolving door. Recently, Jack Del Rio was fired, as was the Jaguars WR coach. Dirk Koetter took over the QB's coach and the QB coach went to the WRs. Gabbert has shown steady progression since the coaching change. I know that you didn't watch the Tampa v. Jags game, since it was only on in something like 5% of the households, so I ask that you watch the game and reassess your opinion.

Now, Gabbert's selection dumbfounded many Jaguars fans, myself included, as I didn't even do research on him because I did not even expect him to be available. Initial film study immediately showed that he broke the pocket more often than he should, but it also showed an immensely strong arm, good accuracy when the footwork was right, raw athletic talent and a eye for the field. Give the youngest QB in a the league a break. He wasn't even supposed to play this year.

/rant end

On that note. The Jags would benefit from taking Blackmon, although I hope that they trade down. The WRs lack a burner and a big guy. Blackmon doesn't seem to be either. Other considerations could be DE (Kampman is most likely gone) or CB. Interior OL could also be considered, but no G/C is worth a 4th overall.
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Old 12-13-2011, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
oh stop it. i've never seen a rookie qb look less capable of playing in the nfl. except for maybe clausen and quinn. but they turned out well.
last year i was saying that gabbert in college looked about as capable and confident as clausen as a rookie.

meanwhile, experts around here and elsewhere (hello mayock) kept on saying that he was the best QB in the draft and that newton was well below him and others.

it only makes sense that some of these guys would be making excuses for being so wrong about both guys.
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Old 12-13-2011, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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http://twitter.com/#!/ClaytonESPN/st...18926770946048

Take it for what it's worth...

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Having to put 27 players on IR this year, the Jags have only 5 man practice squad
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I've always been really low on Gabbert. If we were to combine both this years' class and last years' class I'd probably rank them:

1) Luck (#1 pick)
2) Newton (top 3 pick)
3) RGIII (top 10 pick)
4) Barkley (top 10 pick)
5) Jones (late 1st)
6) Gabbert (late 1st/early 2nd)
7) Dalton (late 1st/early 2nd)
8) Ponder (early 2nd)
9) Kirk Cousins (2nd/3rd)
10) Kaepernick (3rd)
11) Nick Folk (3rd)
You think a kicker is a better QB prospect than Jake Locker?
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
oh stop it. i've never seen a rookie qb look less capable of playing in the nfl. except for maybe clausen and quinn. but they turned out well.
Well, you were wrong on Newton so what makes you so sure, Gabbert cannot develop. Eli absolutely stunk for 3 years before he broke out in his 4th season.
Judging rookies is a waste of time by draftniks who look for perfection right out of the gate. The fact that Jacksonville stuck with him through thick and thin suggests they feel he may have a future. Clausen and Quinn never held their starting positions long enough to suggest they could be capable players. Their coaching staffs decided early that these 2 had nothing to offer and we basically never saw them again.
Unless the team rejects its rookie QB, I never like to give up on him either. I firmly believe that the team knows a lot more than we do, so I am prepared to give Gabbert more time.
Am I guaranteeing he will be a star or even a capable starting NFL QB, NO, I am just prepared to give him more time before I write him off.
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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You think a kicker is a better QB prospect than Jake Locker?
Err....Nick Foles. And to answer your question, yes. As much as I wasn't (am not) a fan of Gabbert. I wouldn't have touched Locker until at least the 3rd round. He's done a pretty nice job in limited action so far (still needs to get his completion % up)
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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NJX9, then you haven't been watching. He has shown improvement. He was actually pretty good against Tampa. He's had spurts throughout the season where he has not shied from pressure or contact. Its an experience thing. He has all of the tangibles that a quarter back could hope for. Size, speed, athelticism, arm strength, downfield visions. He lacks footwork. That's his main flaw and it can be coached. His other main flaw is lack of experience. He was a true junior coming out, with two years of starting experience. Again, he is the youngest QB in the league.

You hate to play the stat game, but you still twist the numbers to your own whims. Manning stunk his first year. Through 7 games (and then some), he put up worse stats than Gabbert. Not to mention that Manning had a better supporting receiving cast. He also had a pedestrian completion percentage during his second year. But I digress, you point to judging a QB in his second year and how he is better than Gabbert, but yet you don't even want to give Gabbert a second year. Need I mention again that there was no intention of playing Gabbert this year, but the QB situation in Jax went to crap and there was no other choice but to play Gabbert. Need I also mention that he had no offseason with the coaches to work on his NFL craft, just a playbook to read and try to decipher on his own?

Cam Newton isn't the only strawman, I mean, you could point to any player out there, say, hey look he is either (a) good or (b) bad and you would probably be wrong as to how the player eventually turns out. Look at Maybin with the Jets, sucked with Bills, is doing pretty well with the Jets.

The fact that Jacksonville stuck with him may have been because there was no choice, that's true, but if their plan was to stick with a veteran with Gabbert on the bench, wouldn't that, in essence, imply that Gabbert was a better option than McCown?

I'm not gonna compare any QB's to any other QB's, as they aren't the same people.

Its obvious, by your sarcastic remarks about "McDonalds" and "using your eyes" that you haven't watched most of his games. He's had games where he shies from contact, true, but he's had games where he's stood tall in the pocket. He's also had games where he had time, but his footwork wasn't there. Anyway you slice it, its someone who doesn't look ready for the job, not that he doesn't have the ability to play the position.

Again, you make a snide comment about knowing more than the coaches and about Sunday, but you didn't watch the Tampa game obviously.

Your final comment has pretty much been debunked already. You haven't watched them play, haven't seen the fact that he has been harassed by defensive lines constantly. Again, see this past Sunday.

Since you obviously didn't read what I wrote originally and have obviously only seen the two Monday night games, then I don't know how you can form an opinion.

Oh, did I mention that Gabbert has faced the #1 DEFENSE (twice), 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9 (8 of his 11.3 games)? Tell me any rookie QB that has no offseason, wasn't supposed to start, who has a crappy receiving corp, an underachieving TE and a hurt OL, who would do well?
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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Did you just compare a DT vs. a QB? Really? Wow. Also, the #1 what? Come on. Use your common sense, its defense, but I'll edit it anyway. I'm not gonna discuss this anymore because your agenda is clear and your slant is obvious. Troll on.
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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faced the #1 what? and keep on with the excuses. i'm sure you made them for alex smith, david carr and jamarcus russell, too.
Yes, I would have made them in their rookie seasons because Rookie QB's don't always bloom in their 1st season. H...mmm Alex Smith took something like 8 seasons before breaking out. You knew better than anyone that Alex stunk, I'm sure, and probably thought Jim Harbaugh didn't have a clue when he named Smith his starter.

At a certain point, probably after 3 years, I would have given up on Carr, Russell, I cannot remember because work effort was his main weakness and we aren't privy to a lot of that.

Anybody who is going to judge a player's career on his rookie year just strikes me as absurd, they are all going through a huge adjustment, some make it through quickly, others quit and are out of the game, others just settle for mediocrity. However, I've seen way too many solid players really struggle in their rookie season but come back the next year and really bloom as the game slows down for them and they put in the hard work to improve, but I guess those types aren't in your vocabulary. You simply believe you can write a player off before he ever gets to the pros if there is something you don't like about him.

I suppose you'll come back with a lot of insults, hoping people won't notice your argument is flawed rather than have a critical discussion with give and take. Pour it out if you must, it's worth a good laugh.
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Old 12-14-2011, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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last year i was saying that gabbert in college looked about as capable and confident as clausen as a rookie.

meanwhile, experts around here and elsewhere (hello mayock) kept on saying that he was the best QB in the draft and that newton was well below him and others.

it only makes sense that some of these guys would be making excuses for being so wrong about both guys.
I'd say there weren't any so called experts around here who had Gabbert as their top QB unless you consider the natural an expert. (i dont)

As for the whole Gabbert evaluation i'd say give him some time. I'm really not high on any rookie starting and if they must then buyer beware because you arent going to win a lot of games.
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Old 12-15-2011, 06:45 AM    (permalink
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I would love it if the Texans picked Alshon Jeffery.
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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I would love it if the Texans picked Alshon Jeffery.
I'd love it too because it would mean a better prospect is left for my Browns in round 2.
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
I'd say there weren't any so called experts around here who had Gabbert as their top QB unless you consider the natural an expert. (i dont)

As for the whole Gabbert evaluation i'd say give him some time. I'm really not high on any rookie starting and if they must then buyer beware because you arent going to win a lot of games.
for starters...
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2011 - Quarterback

  1. Blaine Gabbert, Missouri
  2. Jake Locker, Washington
  3. Cam Newton, Auburn
  4. Ryan Mallett, Arkansas
  5. Christian Ponder, Florida St.
  6. Ricky Stanzi, Iowa
  7. Colin Kaepernick, Nevada
  8. Andy Dalton, T.C.U.
http://www.draftcountdown.com/archive/2011/2011-Rankings.php#qb
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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I'm an FSU fan but Zebrie Sanders is being highly overrated by draft analysts, he has the build and athleticism but he is by no means a dominant player. He makes tons of mental mistakes and was a very poor run blocker this year.
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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Good sf pick . But I could see us going defense as well to load up on S help or CB if a better one is in our spots.
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by The Linebacker View Post
NJX9, then you haven't been watching. He has shown improvement. He was actually pretty good against Tampa. He's had spurts throughout the season where he has not shied from pressure or contact. Its an experience thing. He has all of the tangibles that a quarter back could hope for. Size, speed, athelticism, arm strength, downfield visions. He lacks footwork. That's his main flaw and it can be coached. His other main flaw is lack of experience. He was a true junior coming out, with two years of starting experience. Again, he is the youngest QB in the league.

You hate to play the stat game, but you still twist the numbers to your own whims. Manning stunk his first year. Through 7 games (and then some), he put up worse stats than Gabbert. Not to mention that Manning had a better supporting receiving cast. He also had a pedestrian completion percentage during his second year. But I digress, you point to judging a QB in his second year and how he is better than Gabbert, but yet you don't even want to give Gabbert a second year. Need I mention again that there was no intention of playing Gabbert this year, but the QB situation in Jax went to crap and there was no other choice but to play Gabbert. Need I also mention that he had no offseason with the coaches to work on his NFL craft, just a playbook to read and try to decipher on his own?

Cam Newton isn't the only strawman, I mean, you could point to any player out there, say, hey look he is either (a) good or (b) bad and you would probably be wrong as to how the player eventually turns out. Look at Maybin with the Jets, sucked with Bills, is doing pretty well with the Jets.

The fact that Jacksonville stuck with him may have been because there was no choice, that's true, but if their plan was to stick with a veteran with Gabbert on the bench, wouldn't that, in essence, imply that Gabbert was a better option than McCown?

I'm not gonna compare any QB's to any other QB's, as they aren't the same people.

Its obvious, by your sarcastic remarks about "McDonalds" and "using your eyes" that you haven't watched most of his games. He's had games where he shies from contact, true, but he's had games where he's stood tall in the pocket. He's also had games where he had time, but his footwork wasn't there. Anyway you slice it, its someone who doesn't look ready for the job, not that he doesn't have the ability to play the position.

Again, you make a snide comment about knowing more than the coaches and about Sunday, but you didn't watch the Tampa game obviously.

Your final comment has pretty much been debunked already. You haven't watched them play, haven't seen the fact that he has been harassed by defensive lines constantly. Again, see this past Sunday.

Since you obviously didn't read what I wrote originally and have obviously only seen the two Monday night games, then I don't know how you can form an opinion.

Oh, did I mention that Gabbert has faced the #1 DEFENSE (twice), 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9 (8 of his 11.3 games)? Tell me any rookie QB that has no offseason, wasn't supposed to start, who has a crappy receiving corp, an underachieving TE and a hurt OL, who would do well?
Repeat after this over and over: Blaine Gabbert could be a future Superbowl winning quarterback if NFL football was a summer league 7 on 7 tournament. It's not. So he will likely never, ever be good.

Isolate. The. Quarterback.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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This play resulted in a sack:



Please tell me who is at fault here.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Good pic, you can see that he's not even done his drop yet and there are two defenders in his face.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TheSlinger View Post
Good pic, you can see that he's not even done his drop yet and there are two defenders in his face.
He has already completed his drop and made his plant step. The wide receiver's route is synched with the drop and made his break and came open when Gabbert completed the drop.

That ball is already a second late coming out. He's too busy pissing himself, staring at the rush, and beginning to scramble to have made the throw downfield. He scrambles right into pressure and takes the sack.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201112...ghts&tab=recap

You can take part in whatever narrative you want but it doesn't match up with reality.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TheSlinger View Post
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201112...ghts&tab=recap

You can take part in whatever narrative you want but it doesn't match up with reality.
That isn't the same play, so...

The screenshot I posted was of the first play of scrimmage for Jax.

Last edited by DraftSavant : 12-16-2011 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 12-16-2011, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by K Train View Post
not a fan of zeitler in round one at all....give me mike adams there
I can NOT believe you just said that. Eh. I'll take that Zeitler pick, please and thank you, Scott!!
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