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Old 03-29-2007, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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JA's counter offer: My prediction~~

Bears Get:
#6
'08 2nd round pick

Redskins Get:
Briggs
#37

Last edited by BUSTKUNTLAWL : 03-29-2007 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BUSTKUNTLAWL View Post
JA's counter offer:

Bears Get:
#6
'08 2nd round pick

Redskins Get:
Briggs
#37
That's ridiculous Bears must be Crazy, I thought the first deal was ridiculous but this is just crazy, this is like Lance Briggs a player who is forcing the Bears hand having the Value of a top 5 pick. Also I need a link on that.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ghettosermon View Post
That's ridiculous Bears must be Crazy, I thought the first deal was ridiculous but this is just crazy, this is like Lance Briggs a player who is forcing the Bears hand having the Value of a top 5 pick. Also I need a link on that.
I'm pretty sure he was just joking.


The Bears wouldn't publicly say that they even had a counter-offer, let alone what it was.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ghettosermon View Post
That's ridiculous Bears must be Crazy, I thought the first deal was ridiculous but this is just crazy, this is like Lance Briggs a player who is forcing the Bears hand having the Value of a top 5 pick. Also I need a link on that.
It was my prediction for the counter offer my bad. I should have said that.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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It was my prediction for the counter offer my bad. I should have said that.
Ah gotcha thank god, with the Skins that would be a believable offer.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
No. At minimum he'll play from week 10 on, which really the playoffs are going to be when we need him.

And they can just franchise his ass again if they want. If you think Jerry Angelo isn't that big of a hardass you clearly aren't paying attention. He just took what most people consider to be a steal and shrugged it off like it was dogmeat.

At no point will the Redskins ever have the upperhand in this negotiation. That's like a Zebra killing a Lion.
Great line.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ghettosermon View Post
Ah gotcha thank god, with the Skins that would be a believable offer.
I know that's why I found your response funny.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BUSTKUNTLAWL View Post
JA's counter offer:

Bears Get:
#6
'08 2nd round pick

Redskins Get:
Briggs
#37
If they do that... the redskins should go to the woods with a broom, sit on their knees in a bunch of nine inch thorns, shove the broom up their behind while pounding their head into a tree, and then crawl around in order to use that same broom to rid the entire woods of litter and leaves.

I'd still think they're ********, but at least I'll think of them as mentally challenged in a good 'look what that funny mentally challenged guy did' way.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Is there any way possible for Snyder to buy out the Wizards? :D
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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Question:

If Briggs came out in this draft with his three years of NFL experience as an ALL-PRO linebacker, how high could he go? Understand that he has already proven himself in the NFL and is 26 years old but is coming out in the draft with all the unproven rookies. Is it so ridiculous to see a team spending the 6th pick in the draft on him when A.J. Hawk went to GB that high.

Arent the Redskins getting the better deal with the original offer since the 6th pick could be a huge bust? Forget about the trade value chart for a second.
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Old 03-29-2007, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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Do the Redskins trade picks like their monopoly money or is it just me?
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Old 03-29-2007, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by THIZZorDIE View Post
Do the Redskins trade picks like their monopoly money or is it just me?
No, we do and it's rediculous. And another thing that is rediculous is the fact that people don't think that the deal we offered for Briggs is fair. If anything I think that we are getting the short end a little considering team needs. If Chicago wants to be a hardass then we should tell them to stick it, trade down or pick up the best DL available and start Rocky Fletcher and Washington.
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Old 03-29-2007, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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No, we do and it's rediculous. And another thing that is rediculous is the fact that people don't think that the deal we offered for Briggs is fair. If anything I think that we are getting the short end a little considering team needs. If Chicago wants to be a hardass then we should tell them to stick it, trade down or pick up the best DL available and start Rocky Fletcher and Washington.
You should, but you're not going to.
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Old 03-29-2007, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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No, we do and it's rediculous. And another thing that is rediculous is the fact that people don't think that the deal we offered for Briggs is fair. If anything I think that we are getting the short end a little considering team needs. If Chicago wants to be a hardass then we should tell them to stick it, trade down or pick up the best DL available and start Rocky Fletcher and Washington.
The word is spelled ridiculous.
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by sweetness34 View Post
Adam Archuleta

Brandon Lloyd

Antwaan Randle-El

Chad Morton

There you go toony, fire back buddy. :D
Okay

1. Adam Archuleta - Take a look from last offseason ... not what transpired afterwards. They might've overpaid for Archuleta, that I'll agree with. But Archuleta was considered one of the top talents in last year's FA period at the safety position. Moreover, here's the other two factors to consider. 1, Gregg Williams had made some decisions to move to a cover 2, and believed that Archuleta would fit right in. 2, they had let Ryan Clark go and were looking for a strong safety to complement Sean Taylor, a safety that could play in the box and support the run. Every indication at the time was that Archuleta was a hard worker and a good teammate.

Benefit of hindsight - Archuleta doesn't take too well to tough criticism from the coaching staff, and was unwilling to adjust. None of that was the breaking point, though. The breaking point was when he spoke to reporters and whined, which is a big no-no in any clubhouse. If he did it in Chicago, he'd be run out of town, or at the very least, outcasted as well.

I had no problem with the signing when they made this move. Was he overpriced? Yes. Was he significantly overpriced on account of the market? I'd say not as much as one would think ... because the markets fluctuate from year to year.

2. Brandon Lloyd

I hated this move from the start, so this isn't really going to be the best defense. I can offer up a defense for that move from the Redskins perspective, but eh, I didn't say I would defend every move, so I'll skip this one, as I didn't like it one bit when it happened. And before anyone talks about draft value, let's be clear about something. The NFL has always been a "I can fix that guy" league. Everyone knew Lloyd's flaws, but everyone also saw the talent. If it wasn't the Redskins, another team likely would've stepped in and taken the chance. The picks given up were fine.

3. Antwaan Randle-El - Somehow, there's been this idea he had a poor season and has been a bust. I don't get it. He was the third receiver for most of the year, until the Redskins relegated Brandon Lloyd to the bench. Look at it from the Skins perspective. With Al Saunders offense, and the changing dynamics of the NFL, there was a belief that they needed quicker receivers, and Randle-El fit the mold. He was a versatile guy who'd shown a willingness to work hard. The Redskins, though, oddly had him rated 4th on their FA WR board, and hence led to the decision to add Lloyd as well, as they wanted to spread it wide open. ANother factor to consider. The year before, Santana Moss had a huge year, but he was the only threat basically. The Skins wanted to diversify the offense a bit.

Overall, I don't think there's a need for a benefit of hindsight here. He started off as a the dime receiver, the offense struggled, and then there was a QB change. Sometimes looking solely at numbers doesn't really tell the whole story. Randle-El is likely the 2 going into next year, which I would've preferred him to be this past year, all year.

Was he overpriced? Yes. Was he significantly overpriced based on the market? No.

4. Chad Morton - Really, are we going to bring Chad Morton into the discussion? A player who cost them all of a 5th round pick? A player who was brought in for his return skills? Keep in mind that he had a solid year as a returner for the Jets that final season.
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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The word is spelled ridiculous.
Thanks for that but the only word that is remotely cool to correct on a forum is "genius"...
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
The last time I called out the Redskins, Toon gave me an essay as to why giving big money to Antwan Randle-El, Brandon Lloyd, wasn't bad. He loves playing the Devil's (Snyder's) Advocate.
The problem is, too many people critique because of the philosophy. I don't agree with the philosophy, but it hasn't been the philosophy that's been at fault, it's been the execution of the philosophy. And I don't know why people keep on saying Antwaan Randle-El was a bad move. I don't get that for one bit.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I wish they would bring in a competent personnel man to give Joe Gibbs support. The biggest flaw in Snyder's tenure hasn't really been his spending. It's been trusting Vinny Cerrato. I wish the Redskins would change and make smart moves, but the one thing that ticks me off (as much as anything on a message board can tick me off) is if people make comments about something and can't really back it up.
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Its one thing to pay a lot for a guy who disappoints. That happens to everyteam. In the Adam Archuleta case they signed someone to largest contract in the history of the NFL at that position and then realized that he doesnt fit their scheme at all. Thats on a different level than the others.
I'll only address the "doesn't fit their scheme part".

Gregg Williams had settled on featuring more cover-2 looks this past year. Adam Archuleta had played in a tampa-2 system.

Okay, so what were the "benefit of hindsight" comments on the fit?

1) Gregg didn't run a tampa-2. He ran a cover-2 base that was a variant of the tampa 2.

2) Adam was thought of as a hard-working, good locker room guy. For all the issues he had in Washington, the fact that he broke locker room etiquette was huge, and moreover, there were reports that Adam wasn't willing to learn and adjust.

Tis the gambles of FA. To comment on money would belie the fact that contracts are going to steadily increase unless significant changes are made, as that's just the dynamics of the situation.
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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I bet JA is trying to squeeze McIntosh out of the Skins. I bet he'll give up the 31st and Briggs for McIntosh and the 6.

Its way too much to ask for, but the Skins are crazy enough to do it.
There's been unconfirmed speculation that it's the Redskins actually trying to squeeze more as well, so who knows. It's a poker game at this time of year, and for all the reports in the news, that's probably only a percentage of the discussions going on.
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
Just like Denver somehow got a 2nd and Bailey, for Portis. The Skins' can be had for better than expected value, via trades.
Oh come on Shiver, you don't really want me to get into a discussion on the Bailey trade ... do you? That's what I figured Sweetness would start off with, but instead he lobbed 3 fairly softball moves at me with Archuleta, Randle-El, and CHAD MORTON?
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i highly doubt we intend to move up quite that far. mroeso if wilson is dealt, we'd then be in the same position as chicago: looking at a LB and potentially having to take one way higher than he should be taken.
I'm actually thinking, and this is a reversal for me from a few months ago, that the Broncos may end up surprising and dealing down, moreso than dealing up. That said, the short of it remains the same. I'll be surprised if the Broncos stay in place.
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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Let me be clear ... I'm not going to randomly defend Washington's moves if they are boneheaded. 3 of the 4 tossed to me so far have been defendable, and same with the Bailey trade. If Washington is foolish enough to trade the 6th overall for Lance Briggs straight up, I'll easily bash them, as that's foolish, and Lance isn't worth it. And as noted, I don't like the current rumored deal as constituted ... although I don't think I hate it either. But the only reason I called sweetness out on that is because he's basically making generalizations on Redskins future moves reflective upon their past moves ... with the benefit of hindsight.
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by KBear View Post
I'm not sure if additional picks is what he is after, just different ones other then the 6th pick in the draft. Bears have said that they have no player on their roster who can replace him, so additional players must mean McIntosh or Marshall, either one would potentially be fine with me, it would just depend on what else would be included. Redskins would not need to keep all those LBs on their roster anyway, and they can still keep their #6 pick to take a DL. Should be a better deal for both teams.
I still believe it would make a lot of sense for the Bears and Redskins to swap Mike Brown and Lemar Marshall in that deal.
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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toony... forget about Washington. This is Bear Country!
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SFbear View Post
Question:

If Briggs came out in this draft with his three years of NFL experience as an ALL-PRO linebacker, how high could he go? Understand that he has already proven himself in the NFL and is 26 years old but is coming out in the draft with all the unproven rookies. Is it so ridiculous to see a team spending the 6th pick in the draft on him when A.J. Hawk went to GB that high.

Arent the Redskins getting the better deal with the original offer since the 6th pick could be a huge bust? Forget about the trade value chart for a second.
It's an odd hypothetical, but if he was in this year's draft based on what we know of Lance Briggs, he likely wouldn't be a top 10 pick, but probably a first rounder somewhere. You can't really sawy "coming out with three years of NFL experience" as that sort of, well, doesn't work, but if you are implying that he is coming out with the skillset he's developed, where would he go, then I would say mid-late first.
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