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Old 12-12-2011, 12:01 PM    (permalink
Bulldogs
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Why do people still take this Thumper character seriously? He's still trying to make his case for Carlos Dunlap > JPP and seriously believes Kevin Kolb is the second coming.
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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congratulations, you can make two very general predictions. The Bears and Giants not winning a playoff game, not that they wont make the playoffs. This was while Detroit and Green Bay had good records, Eagles and Dallas both were in the hunt, and the Giants losing half their defense to IR. Congrats, your a genius.
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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Lets not forget this gem

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48652
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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congratulations, you can make two very general predictions. The Bears and Giants not winning a playoff game, not that they wont make the playoffs. This was while Detroit and Green Bay had good records, Eagles and Dallas both were in the hunt, and the Giants losing half their defense to IR. Congrats, your a genius.
Every Bears/Giants homer on this board was still thinking that their team would have playoff success, and in fact, many of them still do.

That's the only reason I made this thread. There are too many Bears/Giants homers with vast overconfidence in their crappy teams.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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Every Bears/Giants homer on this board was still thinking that their team would have playoff success, and in fact, many of them still do.

That's the only reason I made this thread. There are too many Bears/Giants homers with vast overconfidence in their crappy teams.
Yep, as evidenced by all of the Giants fans being proven so foolish in thinking their team would be in contention for the division title and a playoff birth...nothing like Eagles fans' accurate assessment of their teams' superbowl hopes...

At least JPP still sucks...
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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Yep, as evidenced by all of the Giants fans being proven so foolish in thinking their team would be in contention for the division title and a playoff birth...nothing like Eagles fans' accurate assessment of their teams' superbowl hopes...
First of all, it's spelled "berth", and second of all, it's hardly guaranteed just because the 6-6 Giants squeaked out a miracle victory over a bad Cowboys team.

And even if the Giants do get in, I'd be shocked if they are anything better than a one-and-done.

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At least JPP still sucks...
He is a complete liability in the running game - that's one of the reasons why the Giants gave up so many points and Felix Jones could pick up 10 yards at a clip.

The two skills that JPP has are extremely (freakishly) long arms and 4.6 speed, which enable him to bat down passes, chase down RBs and QBs and convert even a little bit of pressure into a sure sack. I still think he is an average to slightly above average pass rusher who is a liabliity in the running game. He's nothing special and clearly worse than Carlos Dunlap as a 4-3 DE.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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First of all, it's spelled "berth", and second of all, it's hardly guaranteed just because the 6-6 Giants squeaked out a miracle victory over a bad Cowboys team.

And even if the Giants do get in, I'd be shocked if they are anything better than a one-and-done.



He is a complete liability in the running game - that's one of the reasons why the Giants gave up so many points and Felix Jones could pick up 10 yards at a clip.

The one skill that JPP has is extremely, freakishly long arms, which enable him to bat down passes and convert a little bit of pressure into a sure sack. I still think he is an average to slightly above average pass rusher who is a liabliity in the running game. He's nothing special and clearly worse than Carlos Dunlap as a 4-3 DE.
And there we have it folks! What other nonsense does PFF feed you? Since this is clearly not your own well thought out opinion.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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And there we have it folks! What other nonsense does PFF feed you? Since this is clearly not your own well thought out opinion.
Actually, I've watched almost every snap of Jason Pierre Paul's career as a 4-3 DE, and many of Dunlap's.

I probably have seen more of JPP than most Giants fans, especially because i focus on him during defensive plays.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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First of all, it's spelled "berth", and second of all, it's hardly guaranteed just because the 6-6 Giants squeaked out a miracle victory over a bad Cowboys team.
I'm foreign so I get an allotment of typoes each week from the mods.

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Yep, as evidenced by all of the Giants fans being proven so foolish in thinking their team would be in contention for the division title and a playoff birth...nothing like Eagles fans' accurate assessment of their teams' superbowl hopes...

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And even if the Giants do get in, I'd be shocked if they are anything better than a one-and-done.
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in contention
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He is a complete liability in the running game - that's one of the reasons why the Giants gave up so many points and Felix Jones could pick up 10 yards at a clip.

The two skills that JPP has are extremely (freakishly) long arms and 4.6 speed, which enable him to bat down passes, chase down RBs and QBs and convert even a little bit of pressure into a sure sack. I still think he is an average to slightly above average pass rusher who is a liabliity in the running game. He's nothing special and clearly worse than Carlos Dunlap as a 4-3 DE.
You understand that those two points are contradictory, right?
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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You understand that those two points are contradictory, right?
Being a good pass rusher is about far more than just getting sacks. Sacks are only part of the story. A good pass rusher needs to generate consistent pressure in the form of hurries and hits, in addition to sacks. Dunlap has more of these in total than JPP on a per-snap basis, which makes him a better pass rusher. JPP is actually about average in terms of per-snap total pressure (hits, hurries, sacks) among 4-3 DEs. In addition, to be a total 4-3 DE, JPP has to vastly improve in the running game.


Regarding the "contention" thing: I was annoyed that homers think that the Bears and Giants are serious playoff contenders - they are not. Both teams, if either one sneaks into the playoffs, will be one of the worst teams in their respective playoff field and wil surely be one-and-done. That's not serious contention in the playoff field; that's called sneaking into the playoffs as a bad team. Technically, you are in contention for a playoff berth, but in reality, the team will be like the 2010 Chiefs: a bad team that will just function as a sacrificial lamb for a better wild-card team in the playoffs.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Being a good pass rusher is about far more than just getting sacks. Sacks are only part of the story. A good pass rusher needs to generate consistent pressure in the form of hurries and hits, in addition to sacks. Dunlap has more of these in total than JPP on a per-snap basis, which makes him a better pass rusher. JPP is actually about average in terms of per-snap total pressure (hits, hurries, sacks) among 4-3 DEs. In addition, to be a total 4-3 DE, JPP has to vastly improve in the running game.


Regarding the "contention" thing: I was annoyed that homers think that the Bears and Giants are serious playoff contenders - they are not. Both teams, if either one sneaks into the playoffs, will be one of the worst teams in their respective playoff field and wil surely be one-and-done. That's not serious contention in the playoff field; that's called sneaking into the playoffs as a bad team. Technically, you are in contention for a playoff berth, but in reality, the team will be like the 2010 Chiefs: a bad team that will just function as a sacrificial lamb for a better wild-card team in the playoffs.
So just because Dunlap almost gets to a QB more than JPP, even though JPP actually gets to the QB more, he's clearly better. Gotcha. And you were annoyed by a strawman of your own creation. Thanks for clearing that up.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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So just because Dunlap almost gets to a QB more than JPP, even though JPP actually gets to the QB more, he's clearly better. Gotcha. And you were annoyed by a strawman of your own creation. Thanks for clearing that up.
Do you just not understand the concept of pass rush pressure at all?
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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dude just go beat off to pff already it's getting old
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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First of all, it's spelled "berth", and second of all, it's hardly guaranteed just because the 6-6 Giants squeaked out a miracle victory over a bad Cowboys team.

And even if the Giants do get in, I'd be shocked if they are anything better than a one-and-done.



He is a complete liability in the running game - that's one of the reasons why the Giants gave up so many points and Felix Jones could pick up 10 yards at a clip.

The two skills that JPP has are extremely (freakishly) long arms and 4.6 speed, which enable him to bat down passes, chase down RBs and QBs and convert even a little bit of pressure into a sure sack. I still think he is an average to slightly above average pass rusher who is a liabliity in the running game. He's nothing special and clearly worse than Carlos Dunlap as a 4-3 DE.
have you seen our linebackers lately? No, just no. He is, if anything, one of the reasons why we aren't gashed more often. His speed allows him to keep things inside, where we would likely get killed because our LB's are terrible.

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Actually, I've watched almost every snap of Jason Pierre Paul's career as a 4-3 DE, and many of Dunlap's.

I probably have seen more of JPP than most Giants fans, especially because i focus on him during defensive plays.
really? you've went to practices too? Because as a giants fan, and resident of northern new jersey, I can say that I have definitely seen more of JPP as a 4-3 DE than you. Given that I watched most of the USF games because of my close proximity to rutgers and the fact that the giants picked him, I've been to giants camp 3 times each year, and I watch every game. Regardless of this, you do not need to see all of these plays to know that JPP is a very good 4-3 DE, and an athletic freak.

JPP not only has a freakish body and is athletic, fast, quick, and can jump high. He has great leverage for his height, he never gives up on a play, and although he doesn't have refined pass-rushing moves, he finds ways to get to the QB. His rawness is not a detractor at this point because he shows that he can produce even with teams chipping and doubling him. With time, he can develop his technique, but it will only be the cherry on top to his raw ability.
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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have you seen our linebackers lately? No, just no. He is, if anything, one of the reasons why we aren't gashed more often. His speed allows him to keep things inside, where we would likely get killed because our LB's are terrible.
If you watched the game last night, you'd notice that Collinsworth himself specifically focused on plays run to JPP's side and said that the Cowboys were targeting JPP in the running game, and that as good of a pass rusher JPP is, he still has much to improve in that aspect of the game. Multiple times last night the Cowboys would run at JPP's side because they knew he was just going to play patty-cake with the OT.

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really? you've went to practices too? Because as a giants fan, and resident of northern new jersey, I can say that I have definitely seen more of JPP as a 4-3 DE than you. Given that I watched most of the USF games because of my close proximity to rutgers and the fact that the giants picked him, I've been to giants camp 3 times each year, and I watch every game. Regardless of this, you do not need to see all of these plays to know that JPP is a very good 4-3 DE, and an athletic freak.
Just because he is an athletic freak doesn't necessarily make him a "good 4-3 DE".

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JPP not only has a freakish body and is athletic, fast, quick, and can jump high. He has great leverage for his height, he never gives up on a play, and although he doesn't have refined pass-rushing moves, he finds ways to get to the QB. His rawness is not a detractor at this point because he shows that he can produce even with teams chipping and doubling him. With time, he can develop his technique, but it will only be the cherry on top to his raw ability.
He can basically jump high and use his long arms to bat down passes, and his speed to chase plays down. Those are valuable traits, but they do not solely an elite 4-3 DE make.
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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Do you just not understand the concept of pass rush pressure at all?
Oh I'm well aware of the point of getting pressure, do you? You really don't see value to JPP getting drive ending sacks? It's not like the dude doesn't get a lot of pressure anyway. And he's a solid run defender, that's absolutely ridiculous to claim, he's no Osi. With how raw he is it's amazing to see just how good he can get, sure it sucks that he doesn't play for your team but why can't you just enjoy seeing him more than most? I still hate that Ware plays for the god damn cowboys, but I still can give the guy his due and appreciate getting to watch him. I'm not comparing JPP to Ware, but he has that type of potential if he continues to make strides towards that ceiling every year.

But it's cool bring up some sacks that don't tell you that JPP has been our only healthy full time end and so has seen a lot of snaps with little help thanks to Fewell's insisting on rushing 3. Or that he bats down a lot of balls when he's not going to be able to get to the QB and so doesn't get pressure on a lot of plays that he still has a huge impact on, even when he doesn't get those orangutan arms on the ball. If you can't appreciate what a statement it is that JPP is already expected to beat double-teams you're just being purposefully dense.

Dunlap's a wonderful young talent as well, but he gets rotated a lot more and plays on a more aggressive defense. But he's not outplaying JPP this year, nor will he be able to if JPP keeps getting better the way he is.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:46 AM    (permalink
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If you watched the game last night, you'd notice that Collinsworth himself specifically focused on plays run to JPP's side and said that the Cowboys were targeting JPP in the running game, and that as good of a pass rusher JPP is, he still has much to improve in that aspect of the game. Multiple times last night the Cowboys would run at JPP's side because they knew he was just going to play patty-cake with the OT.
OH RLY? didn't notice that, I don't watch games my own team plays. Sometimes teams run AT players so that they cannot use their agility and speed to make plays, but must instead act as a body to make an edge or keep other blockers from getting to the edge. I know another person that got run at too...DeMarcus Ware. Same tactic, different player, similar result.

The only difference was that on one or two plays JPP was trying to keep play inside while also trying to make the tackle. He needs to refine his technique, and once we have linebackers he can be more disciplined and be ably to rely on other players, but it was not a result of limitation but trying to do too much. Otherwise, he did well, held his own and kept blockers at bay with his long reach mostly and made an occasional tackle, and a very disciplined and well played TFL twice after his mistake(s) (one was clearly pointed out).

I'm pretty sure if you've watched Dallas games you know this, Giants run at Ware to avoid him going around backside and making a TFL (Eli even blocked him on a pitch play to prevent this).



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Just because he is an athletic freak doesn't necessarily make him a "good 4-3 DE".
does it hurt?


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He can basically jump high and use his long arms to bat down passes, and his speed to chase plays down. Those are valuable traits, but they do not solely an elite 4-3 DE make.
please list the traits necessary oh mighty football god, because only certain traits can make an elite 4-3 DE.
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:16 AM    (permalink
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Every Bears/Giants homer on this board was still thinking that their team would have playoff success, and in fact, many of them still do.

That's the only reason I made this thread. There are too many Bears/Giants homers with vast overconfidence in their crappy teams.
It wasn't homerism that made the Bears fans think we had a legitimate shot in the playoffs. It was the team's performance. The defense was getting better every week. Forte was playing like a top-three running back. Cutler was minimizing mistakes. Martz actually adjusted his offense to keep Cutler from being killed. And we still had one of the top special teams units in the league.

We dominated Atlanta, played Green Bay extremely close, beat Philadelphia at a time when it looked like the Eagles were putting things together, killed Detroit, and traveled across the country to beat the Chargers pretty convincingly. The Bears would have won a playoff game had Cutler not been injured. That isn't homerism speaking. That is just the fact that the Bears were the hottest team in the NFL outside of the Packers.
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Old 12-18-2011, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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I love being right!

This could be even easier to fulfill as a prediction - just watch them both miss the playoffs altogether! Woot!
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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Here's my bold playoff prediction: The eagles do not make the playoffs.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Here's my bold playoff prediction: The eagles do not make the playoffs.
I'll go you one further. I guarantee, both the Eagles and the high flying Redskins don't win a playoff game...
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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Default JBCX Prediction Thread!

Despite being the two most prolific offenses in the NFL, neither the Packers nor the Patriots will win Super Bowl XLVI. I simply cannot see it happening because of the complete ineptitude of their defenses.

Say what you want about their offenses, which are great, and their QBs, who are Hall of Famers, but in this league, you can't hope to consistently win shootouts in the playoffs back-to-back-to-back en route to a Super Bowl victory. Inevitably, an opposing defense in the playoffs will cause your offense to stumble, and in that game, unless you have an above-average defense, your team will likely lose.

Remember last year in the NFC CG when Aaron Rodgers looked off against the Bears? They would not have won that game had it not been for the Green Bay defense, excellent all year in 2010, shutting down the Bears and even contributing to the score with a defensive touchdown.

I think that the Packers stand a better chance of winning the Super Bowl than the Patriots, because the Packers, despite having a sieve-like defense, manage to generate turnovers, but neither defense inspires any confidence in me. I will be absolutely shocked, despite the Packers and Patriots both looking like the two best teams in the league for much of the regular season, if either team wins the Super Bowl this year.

Agree or disagree?
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure how both can win the Super Bowl, but somehow they will now...
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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can you just stop with these predictions, or just make a prediction thread? These predictions aren't even radical, there is a very good chance that neither win because of injuries, the same went for the giants and bears.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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Despite being the two most prolific offenses in the NFL,
so the saints who lead the nfl in almost every category possible offensively (outside of ppg (2nd behind packers) and rushing yardage(9th still substantially above both teams you mentioned) are not one of the two most prolific offenses in the nfl?


does not compute
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