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Old 12-23-2011, 10:53 AM    (permalink
JBCX
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Default Vontaze Burfict is NOT a 1st Rounder

I'm sorry. He just isn't. He's looked absolutely terrible in too many games this year, and last night's bowl game against Boise State was a prime example.

He has physical upside and potential but he's just too much of a risk to be drafted in the first round. If I'm an NFL GM, there is absolutely no way I would spend anything higher than a low second round pick on this guy.

Kuechly and Hightower are the only ILBs that deserve to be taken in the first round at this point.

Agree or disagree?
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Old 12-23-2011, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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Know who is a first round linebacker that was on the field last night?

Shea.
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Old 12-23-2011, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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Burfict as a first-round draft pick is a tough sell; aside from his anger management and maturity issues he looks to be way out of shape and doesn't have the raw athleticism that he did earlier in his college career. Vontaze is one of the 32 most talented players in the draft but a GM would really be going out on a limb by drafting him in the first.
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Old 12-23-2011, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
I'm sorry. He just isn't. He's looked absolutely terrible in too many games this year, and last night's bowl game against Boise State was a prime example.

He has physical upside and potential but he's just too much of a risk to be drafted in the first round. If I'm an NFL GM, there is absolutely no way I would spend anything higher than a low second round pick on this guy.

Kuechly and Hightower are the only ILBs that deserve to be taken in the first round at this point.

Agree or disagree?
JBCX, I want you to know that I hate this... but you were right...

I still think the guy is extremely talented and has huge upside but the game last night torpedos his stock. Probably goes late 1st early 2nd still, but to a team who isn't risking as much by taking him.

I.E. a team like the eagles is probably passing on him to take a less risky pick.

I wouldn't exactly put Hightower in the first with the exception being a team taking a reach which may happen, otherwise I see him as a high 2nd rounder, maybe to the Chiefs.

All this aside, agree.

However much that hurt me to say, I will say that on a bright side I think this may solidify him being in a Ravens jersey come next season :D
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Old 12-23-2011, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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First, this is a very weak draft year outside of the 2 QB's and maybe Kalil, so teams aren't going to be very picky once you get past the top 15 picks.

Second, pro football is an extremely violent game and GM's and scouts love it when a prospect shows that kind of demeanor, most of them will draft a nasty player pretty high even if his talent level just isn't there. They will believe that they can corral his temper given time and redirect it in a positive manner for his team.

I believe Burfict will be a 1st rounder or very high second rounder. Once you put a player like him on your defense, other teams are scared to play you, they know he is looking to put a hurt on you. Who are the 2 players in the NFL who currently play a bit out of control, Harrison of the Steelers and Suh of the Lions and believe me they scare the opposition and it affects their opponents game.
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Old 12-23-2011, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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I love Burfict and your right probably late 1st early 2nd, but I think that some teams will definitely shy away from him in the top 15-20 especially with all the rule changes in this league.

At the beginning of this season and a long way into it I would say teams would overlook that for the physical tools and upside but considering the year he has had as of late, especially with the bowl game) he no longer goes in that top half of the draft range and some of the teams drafting later will find players at other positions of need over him if they can
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Old 12-23-2011, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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First, this is a very weak draft year outside of the 2 QB's and maybe Kalil, so teams aren't going to be very picky once you get past the top 15 picks.

Second, pro football is an extremely violent game and GM's and scouts love it when a prospect shows that kind of demeanor, most of them will draft a nasty player pretty high even if his talent level just isn't there. They will believe that they can corral his temper given time and redirect it in a positive manner for his team.

I believe Burfict will be a 1st rounder or very high second rounder. Once you put a player like him on your defense, other teams are scared to play you, they know he is looking to put a hurt on you. Who are the 2 players in the NFL who currently play a bit out of control, Harrison of the Steelers and Suh of the Lions and believe me they scare the opposition and it affects their opponents game.
Agree. First off it's academic to talk about a guy being a late first because after the top 15 there are then usually 30 guys who could sneak into the first. I would question what he has between the ears but definitely 1st round physically.
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Old 12-23-2011, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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I love Burfict and your right probably late 1st early 2nd, but I think that some teams will definitely shy away from him in the top 15-20 especially with all the rule changes in this league.

At the beginning of this season and a long way into it I would say teams would overlook that for the physical tools and upside but considering the year he has had as of late, especially with the bowl game) he no longer goes in that top half of the draft range and some of the teams drafting later will find players at other positions of need over him if they can
I don't fully agree, Bowl game performances are easily overcome at the Combine. GM's looking to put toughness into their defense are going to take a long look at this guy. If this draft was loaded up with talent, I'd call him a 2nd rounder but it isn't, in fact, it is a very weak draft IMO, after so many juniors declared last year. This is going to move him up in the draft. Starting somewhere around the 15th pick, we could be looking at round 2 talent in this draft so I think Burfict fits right in.
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Old 12-23-2011, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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I don't fully agree, Bowl game performances are easily overcome at the Combine. GM's looking to put toughness into their defense are going to take a long look at this guy. If this draft was loaded up with talent, I'd call him a 2nd rounder but it isn't, in fact, it is a very weak draft IMO, after so many juniors declared last year. This is going to move him up in the draft. Starting somewhere around the 15th pick, we could be looking at round 2 talent in this draft so I think Burfict fits right in.
This is true, however the position itself isn't one that is typically selected high anyway. Burfict was one of the only ones really worthy of that top 10-15 range.

Kuechly may benefit and sneak up into that range for a team in desperate need of an ILB (Eagles) but I think teams like the Chiefs who originally were looking at Burfict in the top 15 area will switch their sites elsewhere and pick up a guy like Hightower in the early 2nd.

Bowl games are indeed something that a prospect can overcome but it's not just the bowl game, he didn't have the season everyone thought he would have and was benched towards the end of it. He really needed this bowl game to silence some of the questions raised after this season.
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Old 12-23-2011, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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I think the last couple of games tell you how bad a relationship Dennis Erickson and Burfict had. Burfict checked out mentally and I think part of that also forced his weight to go up a bit. That situation at ASU must have been a mess, I mean Osweiler yesterday just made a decision on a 4th down play all by himself, sending the punt team off the field. The coaches just stood there. Burfict at the end of the year just looked disinterested and as if he didn't care. Now I think what will be really important for Burfict is how he comes across in the interviews. If he can convince some teams that he isn't a complete knucklehead, that he will work hard and listen to coaching. If that happens, then coaches at the end of the first round will fall in love with him and be so self confident thinking they will channel his energy. NFL coaches, especially the ones who have winning programs at the end of round one like the Steelers, Ravens, Packers or the Jets with Rex, are very confident in their ability to coach people up and deal with certain personalities.
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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Watch the Ravens draft him.
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Some team will draft him late in the first round. His potential is just too high. Get him in a locker room with Ray Lewis and see how long he plays so out of control or be's out of shape.

A lot of times in the draft when it comes to guys like Taze GMs would rather gamble on him due to his upside rather than take a guy with a higher floor than lower ceiling, particularly towards the bottom of the first.

Not that you can afford to miss on a first rounder, but a team with fewer holes like the Ravens or Packers can take a risk on a guy like this because of the reward.
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
First, this is a very weak draft year outside of the 2 QB's and maybe Kalil, so teams aren't going to be very picky once you get past the top 15 picks.

Second, pro football is an extremely violent game and GM's and scouts love it when a prospect shows that kind of demeanor, most of them will draft a nasty player pretty high even if his talent level just isn't there. They will believe that they can corral his temper given time and redirect it in a positive manner for his team.

I believe Burfict will be a 1st rounder or very high second rounder. Once you put a player like him on your defense, other teams are scared to play you, they know he is looking to put a hurt on you. Who are the 2 players in the NFL who currently play a bit out of control, Harrison of the Steelers and Suh of the Lions and believe me they scare the opposition and it affects their opponents game.
No team wants an 'uncoachable' player.
That's the territory Burfict is sliding into IMO.

I don't think he's going to interview well.

Harrison and Suh are good teammates and hard workers who sometimes cross the line.

Burfict LIVES across the line.

EDIT:

And what's this huge 'upside' Burfict allegedly has??

Do guys think he's going to tear it up at the combine and ASU's pro day??

I doubt it.

I think he'll run @4.7 in the 40. Be okay in his agility drills, jump 35in in the vert, maybe.

It's not like the guy is a physical specimen at ILB.
He's not Junior Seau.
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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No team wants an 'uncoachable' player.
That's the territory Burfict is sliding into IMO.

I don't think he's going to interview well.

Harrison and Suh are good teammates and hard workers who sometimes cross the line.

Burfict LIVES across the line.

EDIT:

And what's this huge 'upside' Burfict allegedly has??

Do guys think he's going to tear it up at the combine and ASU's pro day??

I doubt it.

I think he'll run @4.7 in the 40. Be okay in his agility drills, jump 35in in the vert, maybe.

It's not like the guy is a physical specimen at ILB.
He's not Junior Seau.
Upside isn't all about timed speed and measureables. When he's on his game he is as dominant a LB prospect as there has been in the last few years. The problem is he often gets out of control and loses discipline
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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Bah.

When's the last time an ILB 'took over' a football game??

Ray Lewis sometimes came close to doing this very early in his career.
Kuechly has had moments where it appears he's making every single tackle for BC, but even he can't control the game.

Maybe in a different era an ILB would have more value, but in a pass happy modern NFL no ILB has the kind of value a Butkus had in the 1960s, or a Mike SIngletary had in the 1980s.

Unless Burfict has elite speed similar to Patrick Willis and can lockup TEs and RBs in coverage, I don't see big upside from him.
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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I agree that there's just no ILB worth taking high, just because there's just not all that many if any ILB's who can completely take over games.

But if i'm the Ravens, and i see Burfict still on the board, I laugh at everyone and run away with the prize (Burfict). If the Ravens get him, he will be SCARY good.
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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He lost me as a fan. His attitude is too much.
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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He lost me as a fan. His attitude is too much.
Whats weird, is that my friend who used to kick for ASU, as pretty good friends with Burfict, and said that he barely ever drank (and i dont think he smokes at all), and is the quietest person off the field, very reserved, respecfull and pretty mature.

Just on the field, i guess he just loses his $#!+, and just goes absolutely insane.
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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At this point, I dont see how he cracks the first round or top of the 2nd.

What drives me crazy are Bengal fans who want him because Rey had a bad stretch after he hurt his ankle but has played good ever since.
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Whats weird, is that my friend who used to kick for ASU, as pretty good friends with Burfict, and said that he barely ever drank (and i dont think he smokes at all), and is the quietest person off the field, very reserved, respecfull and pretty mature.

Just on the field, i guess he just loses his $#!+, and just goes absolutely insane.
Very Jekyll and Hyde. A lot of GM's might shy away from him entirely, but then there are some that might love him. It all depends on whether the team can afford to take a risk by choosing him a round earlier. If I am the Giants, I think that he will be gone in the mid picks of the second round, maybe a bit earlier and I try to trade up for him if I haven't picked a LB already. The Giants need talent desperately at LB, so I wouldn't blink an eye if he was taken in the mid first by them, but I could also see him slipping into mid second. The combine will give us a better estimate, and he should do pretty well there.
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:11 PM    (permalink
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At this point, I dont see how he cracks the first round or top of the 2nd.

What drives me crazy are Bengal fans who want him because Rey had a bad stretch after he hurt his ankle but has played good ever since.
If Maualuga didn't fall past the early second Burfict wont. Maugaluga was a much worse prospect, and wasn't NEAR the athlete that Burfict is.
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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Much worse? not at all.
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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Much worse? not at all.
As a prospect? Absolutely
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Based on?
Both being highly touted as top of the first type players?
Both seeing their stock drop as the draft neared?

You can say Burfict has athleticism on his side but of late he hasnt looked it. And at least Rey isnt a suspension/fine waiting to happen.
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Did anyone ever consider that Burfict may have a chemical imbalance??
Maybe he should be popping some lithium caps before kickoff.

But seriously, I've heard from several sources that Burfict doesn't drink or 'smoke'.
For him to come across that unstable in games without feeding a habit off the field, I think he might benefit from a psych eval.
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