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Old 01-26-2012, 12:05 AM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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I think the gap between Martin and Miller/Wilson's speed is going to cease to be a question after the combine.
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:46 AM    (permalink
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I don't know about that. Wilson is gonna run between 4.35 and 4.45 ans Miller has supposedly ran under 4.4 also. I think Martin si a 4.5 guy and that is plenty fast for a 219 lb Running back. But some teams want that burner and will value them above him.
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:41 AM    (permalink
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I think Martin is a vastly superior runner than Wilson is. I'm not a fan of Wilson's instincts (case in point the number of times he tries to run backwards to make a play, that'll get him killed in the NFL and eventually benched) and I think his vision is only average. Martin's vision is excellent, he's able to find those tiny creases at the line and power through them into the second level. You rarely, if ever, see him get stuffed for a loss, his feet is always moving and he always seems to fall forward. He's also more than capable of out-running people in the open field and as others have mentioned many times, he's a very good receiver. I think Martin ultimately ends up as a high to mid 2nd round pick and if Wilson ends up going in the 1st, the team that takes him will end up kicking themselves for passing on Martin to do so. The only thing that Wilson has over Martin is his top speed, but Martin won't end up being that much slower to really have it be the deciding factor.

I'm having a harder time separating him from Miller though.
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Old 01-26-2012, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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I don't know about that. Wilson is gonna run between 4.35 and 4.45 ans Miller has supposedly ran under 4.4 also. I think Martin si a 4.5 guy and that is plenty fast for a 219 lb Running back. But some teams want that burner and will value them above him.
I didn't mean that he'd be faster, necessarily, but I don't think the difference is going to be big enough that people prefer Wilson, because Martin offers so much more. And I do expect him to time well. Miller's still a bigger name, but I've been more impressed when I watch Martin play. Those two are pretty close for me, but I think Martin is a tougher runner and is harder to bring down.
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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I think Martin is a vastly superior runner than Wilson is. I'm not a fan of Wilson's instincts (case in point the number of times he tries to run backwards to make a play, that'll get him killed in the NFL and eventually benched) and I think his vision is only average.
I agree with this 100%... and I'm a Hokies fan. Wilson is a great athlete but Martin plays the position much better in terms of vision, instincts, hitting the hole and decision-making. Those things can make a big difference at the next level, where Wilson won't be able to rely as much on his athletic ability to run over / outrun opposing defenses.
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:33 AM    (permalink
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I think you guys make several good points. But I also think that Martin played inferior competition overall compared to Wilson and that is going to matter in the evaluation.

A lot of the times Wilson ran backwards for a loss was because there was very little room to run. I think if they both lined up and had the same holes to run through against Idaho;), Wilson would put up bigger numbers than Martin. I think this could be an argument of who fits your offense better.

I aslo think that Wilson has fantastic hands also and will be a Special Teams demon if used as a Returner for his Team.

I would like the Browns to land either one of them. it's a tough call but I'm pretty sure Wilson will be drafted first of the two.
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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I like threads like this one, I've become more and more of a fan of Martin, but I was hoping he'd be there in round 3 for the Falcons, looks more and more like that's not a possibility. I love how decisive he is, and I love how he just gets what he can get instead of always trying to break a big play.

To me that's the biggest difference, Wilson is always looking to hit a homerun, and that's partially because he's got the ability, Martin on the other hand is looking to hit that first down or put his team in a better position on to make a play on 2nd or 3rd down. They're 2 pretty contrasting backs and I think a team or 4 will fall in love with each of these backs for totally different reasons.

That's part of what's great about the NFL, despite everyone "knowing" what works and what doesn't, there's always someone out there who defies logic, even if only for a season or two before their star burns out. I love watching how different teams build, and what traits different teams look for. It's why we're all here, why we all try to predict this crazy event that is the NFL draft, and why no one EVER gets it all right!

I think whoever drafts these guys will be happy with their selection, and as far as who's coming off the board first, I'd give the nod to Martin. He's got that 1 cut downhill guy and there are a lot of teams running a ZBS of some sort, I could see the Skins taking him he seems like a Shannahan type of guy.
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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I believe Wilson and Miller will still go before Martin, they are likely 1st round talents while Martin will see round 2. The NFL doesn't draft RB's who aren't a homerun threat in round 1. Not saying Martin won't turnout to be the better back but Wilson scares opponents every time he touches the ball and Miller may or may not turnout to be a similar RB. We'll know better when they run their 40 time at the combine.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Lately when I read about Martin, I keep hearing things like, "He's rising up draft boards, but we'll have to see how he times at the combine." I keep hearing things to the effect of, "He's more quick than fast," "He plays faster than he times," "Does he have true breakaway speed?"

The guy was ripping off big plays his entire career, and he's been logged in the 4.4s since high school. His rivals.com listed time coming out of high school was a 4.47, and according to this: http://voices.idahostatesman.com/201...rback_jamar_ta (Times from Boise's Pro Day last year) He ran a 4.41 40, did the three-cone in 6.55, had 28 bench reps and a 37 inch vertical. The guy's a terrific athlete, is dedicated in the weight room, has legitimate long speed and is so natural and smooth running the ball people don't think he's fast. He's going to destroy in the NFL if he lands in a good situation.
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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Becoming more and more of a fan each day.
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Lil Quip View Post
Best is dangerous yet I would rather limit his straight rushed and increase him in other areas. Smith looked alright, but do you think anyone is banking on him? Leshoure is a big guy, but not a huge power guy, and who knows how he comes back from his injury.

Four guys is not too many if you aren't going to have that one all around guy.
Leshoure will be back for sure whenever he is healthy. The Lions really liked him before the injury and can't wait for his return.

Smith has recently said that he would like to come back, but the Lions don't seem all that excited in him except as a player they can call on in a pinch. He was very productive as a fill-in this season.

Best - and I hate to say it because I really loved watching him play - think he is done. He has just had too many whacks up side the head. The hit he took against Oregon State was as bad as I have ever seen and I don't think he has ever really been the same since. And he has had several more concussions since. I think he needs to hang em up.

So I don't think the Lions can feel very comfortable at all regarding their RB situation. I think Leshoure willcome back and will be a very good back, but probably not at full strength this season. I'm not counting on Best at all and I think the team will try to replace Smith.
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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Becoming more and more of a fan each day.
Same here...I think he's at least a solid Thomas Jones type runner with the right team/s, and possibly he's more versatile.
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Same here...I think he's at least a solid Thomas Jones type runner with the right team/s, and possibly he's more versatile.
Remember Thomas Jones was picked #7 overall, and might've lived up to the hype if he hadn't spent his early years on putrid teams, or if Chicago had just committed to him instead of drafting Benson. Jones is #22 on the all-time rushing yards list, and that's pretty impressive considering he never really seemed to truly belong to any particular team. He's always seemed to have that journeyman aura about him.

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Old 02-25-2012, 03:33 AM    (permalink
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People comparing Doug Martin to Ray Rice are way off, Trent Richardson is much closer to Rice in running style and ability. Richardson and Martin are the same exact height 5'9-1/8", but, on the field, TRich runs much lower and more compact.
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:49 AM    (permalink
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I recognize that this thread is about Martin and his draft stock, but I have to ask this question...I have repeatedly read in these forums that Martin, Miller and Wilson are all in that 2nd round range, but rarely is anyone including LaMichael James in the conversation. Has his stock dropped or is he just flying under the radar?
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:41 AM    (permalink
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I've never been a fan of LaMichael James, but I think he helped himself a bit at the weigh-in, actually. 5'8" 194 isn't a bad build for a running back. Those are just your Leon Washington, Justin Forestt-types of the world. I think he'd be a perfectly good pick in the 3rd or 4th, but I just don't think he's going to offer enough to justify a higher pick. And I think most people feel that way - that he's a really good college player who's going to have a role in the pros, but isn't going to be a Pro Bowler. The discussion just naturally gravitates towards players whose arc of potential seem to have more pronounced extremes between success and failure.
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Old 02-25-2012, 08:40 AM    (permalink
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I've never been a fan of LaMichael James, but I think he helped himself a bit at the weigh-in, actually. 5'8" 194 isn't a bad build for a running back. Those are just your Leon Washington, Justin Forestt-types of the world. I think he'd be a perfectly good pick in the 3rd or 4th, but I just don't think he's going to offer enough to justify a higher pick. And I think most people feel that way - that he's a really good college player who's going to have a role in the pros, but isn't going to be a Pro Bowler. The discussion just naturally gravitates towards players whose arc of potential seem to have more pronounced extremes between success and failure.
Big time

LaMike was considered possibly Darren Sproles size.

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Old 02-25-2012, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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My rankings at the moment.

1. Rihcardson
2. Polk
3. Martin
4. Lamar Miller

David Wilson is a distant 8th.
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Old 02-25-2012, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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My rankings at the moment.

1. Rihcardson
2. Polk
3. Martin
4. Lamar Miller

David Wilson is a distant 8th.
Polk 2nd is nice. People are seriously underrating him now since after a bad Senior Bowl.
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Old 02-25-2012, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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My rankings at the moment.

1. Rihcardson
2. Polk
3. Martin
4. Lamar Miller

David Wilson is a distant 8th.
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Polk 2nd is nice. People are seriously underrating him now since after a bad Senior Bowl.
Wow. Major disagreement.

Polk was exposed at the Senior Bowl, but his play was consistent with the bulk of his season. Take as an example his showing against Baylors weak defense. He is certainly draftable, but 3rd round grade.

Why the hate on Wilson. I understand prefering Miller, but not by a lot.

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Old 02-25-2012, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by onejayhawk View Post
Wow. Major disagreement.

Polk was exposed at the Senior Bowl, but his play was consistent with the bulk of his season. Take as an example his showing against Baylors weak defense. He is certainly draftable, but 3rd round grade.

Why the hate on Wilson. I understand prefering Miller, but not by a lot.

J
Polk consistently breaks more tackles than Martin. He also has better cutback ability.
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Old 02-25-2012, 10:28 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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Polk consistently breaks more tackles than Martin. He also has better cutback ability.
I think I'd have to say both of these things are false, and that's coming from someone who really liked Polk when I first came to know him, but he's failed to impress in some important games, while Doug Martin has excelled. And a lot of that has to do with tackle-breaking ability and cutting. Martin's a bit bigger, more compact and faster version of what Polk offers; they're similar types of players, but while Polk strikes me as a guy you say, "Yeah, he'll help some team out," Martin is a running back I look at and see multiple Pro Bowls given the right circumstances. I'm not sure I've ever pumped up a back as much as Martin.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:57 AM    (permalink
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As a major Hokies fan, I would nonetheless have Wilson behind Martin.

However, people are completely overlooking Wilson's freakish balance and strength for a guy his size. He is not a soft runner. At all. He is also a receiving threat and a good blocker in the backfield.

But his vision is average at best.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:59 AM    (permalink
onejayhawk
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Polk consistently breaks more tackles than Martin. He also has better cutback ability.
Again, disagree. Polk is a tackle breaker I grant you, but Martin has a big edge in yards after contact. Cut back ability is subjective, so i will not say no, but Martin is clearly better at finding space. Plus, the extra gear is important.

J
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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4.55

Definitely not a bad time, but not what many were projecting here..

Still see him as a late 2nd early 3rd round guy.
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