Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > 2014 NFL Draft Forum

2014 NFL Draft Forum Discuss the 2014 NFL Draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-01-2012, 10:59 PM    (permalink
JBCX
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,118
Reputation: 10781
JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Baylor was garbage before Griffin showed up.

That's the sign of a great prospect - he takes a bad program and turns them into a contender.

Look at Jay Cutler at Vanderbilt, or Cam Newton at Auburn.
JBCX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2012, 11:05 PM    (permalink
keylime_5
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,668
Reputation: 293076
keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I agree with some of what Brown Leader says. His stats are inflated in that offense, that much is fact. A lot of short throws into the flat to wide open guys on screen plays that are basically fancy running plays where the WR gets a ton of YAC. There is no denying this kid's arm strength, athleticism, and accuracy (especially downfield). He has the potential to be the next great mobile QB in the NFL, certainly worth a top 5 pick.
__________________
keylime_5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2012, 11:21 AM    (permalink
Brown Leader
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sun rises in the East
Posts: 3,040
Reputation: 514730
Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Just admit you haven't really seen RGIII play extensively instead of extrapolating why he runs when he does.

Outside of designed runs, Griffin scrambled because the pocket imploded and he was waiting for WRs to get open deep.
He's not a scatback in the pocket who bugs out from pressure.

He's a three-year starter and as polished as Sam Bradford was coming out of a similar spread scheme throwing the football.
By unpolished I'm referring to his unorthodox footwork in the pocket and his tendency to drop his throwing motion, not that he's a run first type.

Quote:
When Griffin is allowed to dropback and stand tall in the pocket, he is a cyborg; almost machine like in his efficiency and accuracy throwing the ball to all levels of the football field.

I know this is the time before the draft when we incessantly look for reasons why the top guys really aren't all that, but there's no reason to embellish the case against Griffin.
C'mon, he rarely drops back. If you mean when he's not under any pressure, then fine-that offense, with him running it, yes is machine like. As I've stated before I watched Griffin last year and didn't like him at all. He's had an impressive season, worthy of the accolades, but I'm in the camp that thinks he's definitely not a can't miss type.

Quote:
Kendall Wright would have been a star for any team in the Big 12. But Terrance Williams and Tevin Reece are lowly regarded recruits who benefited by having Wright draw safety help and having a QB like RGIII under center.

It's ridiculous to argue that on a football team like BAYLOR, Griffin was the byproduct of an offensive system, and not THE system himself.

That bowl game was a microcosm in many ways of Baylor's season. Their defense is garbage, the Oline can't consistently pass block and Baylor's only chance to win is for RGIII primarily, Kendall Wright and Ganaway to a lesser extent to play out of their minds.

Ganaway is an underrated pro prospect, but it was Griffin's passing threat that allowed Ganaway the luxury of running against 5 and 7 man fronts with the LBs nearly 10 yards off the LOS.
I completely agree. I think you saw Griifin's inconsistent pocket presence. You saw his natural talent as a thrower but also his unorthodox footwork. You saw his blazing speed but as a scrambler/runner, he's a straight ahead, one speed type who'll have trouble gaining yards like that in the pros. He gets off balance when he tries to elude and sets himself up to take crushing hits. That's what I mean by athlete first. Baylor won but is there any question that Price thoroughly outplayed Griffin?

Quote:
The first word I would use to describe RGIII is: WORKER.
His physical ability has always been second to his willingness to be a grind. You can see it in the classroom,(he's going to earn a Master's this spring and was going to apply and begin law school in the fall), you saw it in HS.
It was demonstrated in every season Griffin improved as a QB at Baylor.


If I were a GM, my head would be spinning with the opportunity to draft Griffin. He's a smart, disciplined kid who's also a hard worker. Whatever it takes to make that leap from college phenom to pro bowl QB, you'd have to bet RGIII is going to figure it out.

Add to that his physical tools, arm strength, release, mobility and uncanny accuracy, and you're talking about a prospect who had a great chance to be taken 2nd after Luck even if Barkley had declared.

Grif is a prospect whom I feel will see his stock rise as we approach the combine, not take a dip.
Once he goes through the gauntlet of team interviews at the combine, I think teams are going to be trading up to #2 to land his services.

Did Griffin make it look easy at Baylor?? Yes.
But sometimes it's because a player is a flat out beast, and not because he has inherent weaknesses that are being camouflaged by an ideal scheme/weak competition.
I'm not denying he's a top notch prospect, I'm just not near as confident as you that he'll pan out.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by borg9 View Post
Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBess View Post
....ask Brandon Weeden.

Last edited by Brown Leader : 01-02-2012 at 11:28 AM.
Brown Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2012, 11:33 AM    (permalink
kalbears13
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The difference between a child's toy and an adult toy
Posts: 4,089
Reputation: 1618647
kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Baylor was garbage before Griffin showed up.

That's the sign of a great prospect - he takes a bad program and turns them into a contender.

Look at Jay Cutler at Vanderbilt, or Cam Newton at Auburn.
Look at David Carr at Fresno State, Tim Couch at Kentucky or Ryan Leaf at Washington State.
__________________
kalbears13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2012, 04:50 PM    (permalink
bigbuc
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,728
Reputation: 144651
bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalbears13 View Post
Look at David Carr at Fresno State, Tim Couch at Kentucky or Ryan Leaf at Washington State.

Carr and Couch went to first year teams with no players let alone O lines on them. And Leaf was in Vegas doing hookers and blow when he was drafted. So ha
bigbuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2012, 06:00 PM    (permalink
nepg
All-NFLDC
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 13,423
Reputation: 1529439
nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
How the heck is RGIII childish? It's just a nickname derived from his name...
It's like MB3, which was also a play on the file extension "mp3". There are some bad nicknames for players, for sure, but I think RG3 is legit.
__________________
nepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 10:04 AM    (permalink
Bob Sanders Dreadlock
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,771
Reputation: 254489
Bob Sanders Dreadlock is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bob Sanders Dreadlock is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bob Sanders Dreadlock is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bob Sanders Dreadlock is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bob Sanders Dreadlock is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bob Sanders Dreadlock is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bob Sanders Dreadlock is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bob Sanders Dreadlock is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bob Sanders Dreadlock is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bob Sanders Dreadlock is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bob Sanders Dreadlock is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

What kind of 40 time are we looking at for RG3?
__________________
Sam Bradford will be a bust- 2/24/2010

Colts Cardinals Bulls Hurricanes
Bob Sanders Dreadlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 10:09 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,180
Reputation: 1111665
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock View Post
What kind of 40 time are we looking at for RG3?
I'd guess official between 4.44 and 4.52.

He'll be the 2nd fastest QB in the league after Vick.

If Griffin is really 220#, I think he and Locker have about the same straight line speed.
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 10:11 AM    (permalink
Spaceboy1
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 96
Reputation: 12633
Spaceboy1 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Spaceboy1 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Spaceboy1 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Spaceboy1 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Spaceboy1 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Spaceboy1 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Spaceboy1 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Spaceboy1 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Spaceboy1 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Spaceboy1 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Spaceboy1 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Rg3 and Locker same straight line speed? LMAo, this is pretty damn funny.
Spaceboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 10:21 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,180
Reputation: 1111665
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceboy1 View Post
Rg3 and Locker same straight line speed? LMAo, this is pretty damn funny.
Not if you know anything about Locker's athletic background or watched him in college.

I made the exception for Griffin's added weight. When RGIII was a nationally ranked hurdler in HS, he weighed around 185-190#.

Grif doesn't have that kind of speed anymore, but he's still fast.

If Griffin runs a sub 4.4 electronic at @215-220#, I will be shocked.
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 10:28 AM    (permalink
bucfan12
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,421
Reputation: 122376
bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Something tells me theres way too much hype surrounding this kid. He just doesn't look like he'll transition into a franchise QB.

You really have to be careful in evaluating these Spread option type QBs. They don't have to make difficult reads with 4 and 5 WRs as options.
bucfan12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 10:38 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,180
Reputation: 1111665
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

The most difficult part IMO for most young QBs in the NFL is making an accurate throw, not the read.( Unless your last name is Sanchez).

This isn't the 1980s anymore. Most NFL QBs nowadays have more than just two primary WRs running patterns on passing downs.

All the boo birds who thought Cam Newton would bust epically need to go into a wait-and-see mode on Grif and quit with the proclamations.

I see incredible potential with RGIII. No one said he's a lock to be anything, and that goes for Luck too.

Besides right now we were talking about his measurables.
__________________

Last edited by FUNBUNCHER : 01-03-2012 at 10:58 AM.
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 10:51 AM    (permalink
DraftSavant
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,418
Reputation: 551798
DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
Something tells me theres way too much hype surrounding this kid. He just doesn't look like he'll transition into a franchise QB.

You really have to be careful in evaluating these Spread option type QBs. They don't have to make difficult reads with 4 and 5 WRs as options.
Ugh, how many times do we have to go through this stupid circular argument.

A "pro style" offense really helped Leinart, Clausen, and Sanchez, didn't it? Matt Barkley's really getting prepared for the pros throwing more screen passes and two man route combos per game than any spread QB, right?

If Griffin fails, it will be for one reason: he doesn't feel pressure that well and tends to shrink/make himself small in a muddied pocket.

There are enough things to like about his game to justify his draft stock, and, while there are concerns, they have nothing to do with his style offense. In fact, I want to say that they have him throwing from under center (straight dropbacks and play action off of power action) a good 5-7 times a game.

College. Offensive. System. Is. Irrelevant. You. Have. To. Project. No. Matter. What. There. Is. No. Such. Thing. As. A. Pro. Style. Offense. In. College.
DraftSavant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 10:58 AM    (permalink
bucfan12
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,421
Reputation: 122376
bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DraftSavant View Post
Ugh, how many times do we have to go through this stupid circular argument.

A "pro style" offense really helped Leinart, Clausen, and Sanchez, didn't it? Matt Barkley's really getting prepared for the pros throwing more screen passes and two man route combos per game than any spread QB, right?

If Griffin fails, it will be for one reason: he doesn't feel pressure that well and tends to shrink/make himself small in a muddied pocket.

There are enough things to like about his game to justify his draft stock, and, while there are concerns, they have nothing to do with his style offense. In fact, I want to say that they have him throwing from under center (straight dropbacks and play action off of power action) a good 5-7 times a game.

College. Offensive. System. Is. Irrelevant. You. Have. To. Project. No. Matter. What. There. Is. No. Such. Thing. As. A. Pro. Style. Offense. In. College.
You just named 3 guys who failed/struggling in the NFL.

How about Carson Palmer? Matt Stafford? Aaron Rodgers? Eli Manning? Ben Roethlisbuerger? Phillip Rivers? Matt Ryan? The list goes on of Pro Style offensive QBs.

How many spread offense QBs have had success? Cam Newton has this year, but he's been in the league for 1 year. I'll make that evaluation after his 3rd/4th year. It took Alex Smith 6 years to develop. Sam Bradford is struggling. Colt McCoy is looking to be replaced as Cleveland's QB. BTW, Blaine Gabbert is struggling as well.

All I'm saying is, it's hard to find a very successful QB that came from this spread option offense. Tebow is struggling now because teams are knowing how to play and defend that gimmick college football spread option offense that Denver put in because he can't run a pro style offense.
bucfan12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 11:05 AM    (permalink
armageddon
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 993
Reputation: 61100
armageddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.armageddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.armageddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.armageddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.armageddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.armageddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.armageddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.armageddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.armageddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.armageddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.armageddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
You just named 3 guys who failed/struggling in the NFL.

How about Carson Palmer? Matt Stafford? Aaron Rodgers? Eli Manning? Ben Roethlisbuerger? Phillip Rivers? Matt Ryan? The list goes on of Pro Style offensive QBs.

How many spread offense QBs have had success? Cam Newton has this year, but he's been in the league for 1 year. I'll make that evaluation after his 3rd/4th year. It took Alex Smith 6 years to develop. Sam Bradford is struggling. Colt McCoy is looking to be replaced as Cleveland's QB. BTW, Blaine Gabbert is struggling as well.

All I'm saying is, it's hard to find a very successful QB that came from this spread option offense. Tebow is struggling now because teams are knowing how to play and defend that gimmick college football spread option offense that Denver put in because he can't run a pro style offense.



He will continue to struggle until they can protect him and get him some real weapons, primarily a true #1 WR. Nobody could succeed in that offense currently, nobody.
armageddon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 11:05 AM    (permalink
keylime_5
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,668
Reputation: 293076
keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Terrelle Pryor was 4.38 at 6'5"/235, so it wouldn't surprise me if olympic quality sprinter Robert Griffin runs a hair under 4.4. He did add some weight but he still looks really freaking fast on the field when he's running full speed.
__________________
keylime_5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 11:32 AM    (permalink
DraftSavant
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,418
Reputation: 551798
DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
You just named 3 guys who failed/struggling in the NFL.

How about Carson Palmer? Matt Stafford? Aaron Rodgers? Eli Manning? Ben Roethlisbuerger? Phillip Rivers? Matt Ryan? The list goes on of Pro Style offensive QBs.
Funny you mentioned Aaron Rodgers, because NFL teams/draftniks were scared off by the "Tedford system" label. Funny how everyone has forgotten all about that.

Quote:
How many spread offense QBs have had success? Cam Newton has this year, but he's been in the league for 1 year. I'll make that evaluation after his 3rd/4th year. It took Alex Smith 6 years to develop. Sam Bradford is struggling. Colt McCoy is looking to be replaced as Cleveland's QB. BTW, Blaine Gabbert is struggling as well.
A lot of it is determined by how you define "spread." You group Sam Bradford, Blaine Gabbert, Colt McCoy, and Alex Smith together, but all of these guys ran vastly different offenses. The only similarity is that they lined up in shotgun a lot. And if that's how we're going to define the "spread," then we can go ahead and pull Roethlisberger and Ryan over the "spread" side of the line in terms of their college offense. They can hang out over there with Drew Brees.

Jay Cutler's done pretty well for himself, too, despite being in a quasi spread-option at Vandy.

Quote:
All I'm saying is, it's hard to find a very successful QB that came from this spread option offense. Tebow is struggling now because teams are knowing how to play and defend that gimmick college football spread option offense that Denver put in because he can't run a pro style offense.
So are we talking about the spread or the spread-option? Again, highly different schemes.

It's hard to find a successful QB that came from the spread-option offense, because there haven't been many highly-rated spread-option QBs. That style offense hasn't been around long enough to have enough highly-rated QBs to draw a firm conclusion about. I'm sorry, but to cast eternal damnation on every spread-option QB ever because of Pat White and Tim Tebow is incredibly short-sighted.

College offense really shouldn't detract or artificially from your evaluation of a player. I'm not going to knock a guy down because he throws a lot of screens and runs the option, and I'm not going to artificially inflate a guy because he can take a snap from under center and knows how to hand the ball off on power.
DraftSavant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 11:52 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,180
Reputation: 1111665
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Why when people talk about spread QBs struggling to make the transition to the pros, they almost invariably leave out Drew Brees??
__________________

Last edited by FUNBUNCHER : 01-03-2012 at 12:08 PM.
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 11:57 AM    (permalink
DraftSavant
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,418
Reputation: 551798
DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
When why people talk about spread QBs struggling to make the transition to the pros, they almost invariably leave out Drew Brees??
Probably because a lot of people

a) don't remember him playing in college

and

b) "spread" is a vague, ubiquitous term

It's like the "West Coast Offense" or "Tampa Two." Every team runs principles from both of these schemes, just like every team uses spread principles in their passing game.

My favorite, though, was everyone calling Spurrier's system at UF "spread." He started going more 3-4 wide late in his UF career. But for the most part, that was a 2-back system, his base run play was the lead draw, and his passing game was a deep 5-7 step system built around play action off the lead draw.

Spurrier's "system" at Duke and at UF actually got borrowed from quite a bit from NFL teams.

Last edited by DraftSavant : 01-03-2012 at 12:01 PM.
DraftSavant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 12:00 PM    (permalink
kalbears13
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The difference between a child's toy and an adult toy
Posts: 4,089
Reputation: 1618647
kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DraftSavant View Post
Probably because a lot of people

a) don't remember him playing in college

and

b) "spread" is a vague, ubiquitous term

It's like the "West Coast Offense" or "Tampa Two." Every team runs principles from both of these schemes, just like every team uses spread principles in their passing game.
That's so true... "West Coast Offense" now just means "We Throw A Lot"
__________________
kalbears13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 12:41 PM    (permalink
DraftSavant
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,418
Reputation: 551798
DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalbears13 View Post
That's so true... "West Coast Offense" now just means "We Throw A Lot"
I see Green Bay run "Sprint Right Option" (Bill Walsh's favorite play, made famous by "The Catch") out of shotgun with four wide and trips. Is that a West Coast play or is it a Spread play? Does anybody really know anymore?
DraftSavant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 01:04 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,729
Reputation: 257525
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

College QB's are succeeding at an ever greater rate as the years go by, why, because they are asked to throw the ball 2 or 3 times as much as a college QB used to throw it.

This gives pro scouts and GM's a very good read on how a QB handles himself when throwing the ball in college no matter what system they come from.

Once the post season starts with the all star games followed by the combine, teams couldn't care less what system you came from, they can see for themselves how you will adjust to their pro game style.

The crucial question always remains mental toughness and how bad a QB wants to learn his profession provided he has a pro arm.

Spread QB's fail, pro style QB's fail, in fact pro style college QB's probably have a higher failure rate among high picks than spread QB's.

RG111 is very close to Luck in intelligence suggesting a strong work ethic and the ability to adjust to the next level. They both have pro arms so all roads for the two of them lead to Rome, namely a very high success factor on paper.
Can they both or one of them fail, of course, there are injuries etc. which can be deciding factors, but on paper these 2 guys appears to be sure things, about as sure as you are ever going to get on draft day.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 01:09 PM    (permalink
DraftSavant
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,418
Reputation: 551798
DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DraftSavant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
College QB's are succeeding at an ever greater rate as the years go by, why, because they are asked to throw the ball 2 or 3 times as much as a college QB used to throw it.

This gives pro scouts and GM's a very good read on how a QB handles himself when throwing the ball in college no matter what system they come from.

Once the post season starts with the all star games followed by the combine, teams couldn't care less what system you came from, they can see for themselves how you will adjust to their pro game style.

The crucial question always remains mental toughness and how bad a QB wants to learn his profession provided he has a pro arm.

Spread QB's fail, pro style QB's fail, in fact pro style college QB's probably have a higher failure rate among high picks than spread QB's.

RG111 is very close to Luck in intelligence suggesting a strong work ethic and the ability to adjust to the next level. They both have pro arms so all roads for the two of them lead to Rome, namely a very high success factor on paper.
Can they both or one of them fail, of course, there are injuries etc. which can be deciding factors, but on paper these 2 guys appears to be sure things, about as sure as you are ever going to get on draft day.
We disagree often, but I completely agree with this post.
DraftSavant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 03:26 PM    (permalink
Brown Leader
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sun rises in the East
Posts: 3,040
Reputation: 514730
Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

When 80% of your throws are WR screens, I think it makes a difference. ;/ Of course, I'm exaggerating since they opened it up a bit this year, but generally, under Griffin, that's exactly what the Baylor offense was. I do think he has an NFL caliber arm but how many times this season has he actually zipped the ball into a tight window downfield?
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by borg9 View Post
Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBess View Post
....ask Brandon Weeden.
Brown Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 03:50 PM    (permalink
MetSox17
Suck it Metsox
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: God blessed Texas
Posts: 20,967
Reputation: 3952661
MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MetSox17 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Count me in with the camp that doesn't give Griffin a passing grade in the eyeball test. I really want the kid to succeed, he's great, but something is off. Don't know if it's his size, or the fact that a lot of his deep balls seem to be thrown with a lot of air under them, i have no clue. But something seems weird. He also seems to have a slow delivery in his deeper passes.
__________________
MetSox17 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.