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Old 01-01-2012, 07:38 PM    (permalink
holt_bruce81
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Originally Posted by armageddon View Post
If they can move Bradford, they should take RG3.
Dumbest thing I've ever heard. Bradford looked just as good if not better than RG3 in college, what in 2 years if RG3 doesn't reach your expectations are you going to want the Rams to trade him also?

Bradford has had a better first 2 seasons than both Troy Aikman and Drew Brees. Not saying he'll end up better than theem, Just saying all these Rams fans already giving up on Bradford is mind-boggling.
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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You take a Luck and you sit him for one maybe two seasons... Done and Done
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbuc View Post
You take a Luck and you sit him for one maybe two seasons... Done and Done
That would be the best thing to do and with no more paying rookies a weenerload of cash, it's deffinetly more do able now than in years past. But is Luck going to do that?
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:49 PM    (permalink
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This is just a bad situation all around. If I'm the Colts I'd trade the pick for a ransom. But before I'd do anything I'd fire Bill Polian
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by armageddon View Post
If they can move Bradford, they should take RG3.
Wouldn't bet on it. I'd guess Rams go Kalil and don't move down. Move Saffold to RT and Smith inside to guard.
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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Luck isn't a guy who will ***** and whine about sitting for a year or so. He would probably love the opportunity to learn from Manning.

You have to remember in addition to the new rookies deals a back up QB isn't going to hit any incentives. I remember Matt Leinart being pretty cheap when he was behind Warner.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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I don't care who the incumbent is, how much he makes or what his legacy will be...Manning is 35 years old! We're not talking about a St. Louis situation with Bradford should they have ended up with the pick, we're talking about a horrible team with lots of rebuilding to do and a 35 year QB whose best years are behind him. Luck is the pick and Manning is just keeping the seat warm.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam View Post
Wouldn't bet on it. I'd guess Rams go Kalil and don't move down. Move Saffold to RT and Smith inside to guard.


Not sure about moving Smith inside. The dude gets concussed so much on the outside, I would hate to see what happens inside. Plus, for all we know, he may retire after this last one. What a waste of a #2 pick. But, i do like Kalil at LT and Saffold moving to RT. They should try to auction off RG3 first and foremost.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam View Post
Wouldn't bet on it. I'd guess Rams go Kalil and don't move down. Move Saffold to RT and Smith inside to guard.
If I'm the Rams and can't trade down I take Claiborne or Blackmon. While I understand the concern with Jason Smith, I think Saffold is a good Left Tackle and if they choose to move Smith I think we can find a Right tackle later on in the draft, where as I don't think we can find that potential beast #1 Wideout later on, unless we want to go the route last year and just take two mid draft (Pettis, Salas) and cross our fingers that one pans out.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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Dumbest thing I've ever heard. Bradford looked just as good if not better than RG3 in college, what in 2 years if RG3 doesn't reach your expectations are you going to want the Rams to trade him also?

Bradford has had a better first 2 seasons than both Troy Aikman and Drew Brees. Not saying he'll end up better than theem, Just saying all these Rams fans already giving up on Bradford is mind-boggling.


Bradford had all day to throw in college behind that awesome o-line. The Rams need to either bolster their line or get a QB that can scramble. People wanting to keep Bradford and draft a playmaker are clueless. He will never succeed playing behind that current line.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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It's a shame too, because I would have rooted for Luck if he'd landed on any other team.
Vikings....? I'd much rather have him in Indy
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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Bradford had all day to throw in college behind that awesome o-line. The Rams need to either bolster their line or get a QB that can scramble. People wanting to keep Bradford and draft a playmaker are clueless. He will never succeed playing behind that current line.
You do know there's more than one round in the draft right? Why not take Blackmon and a Right Tackle later on in the draft?

Saffold is a good left tackle, the one thing he struggles with is bullrushers, but with some Weightlifting and good coaching He could be a stud left tackle.

But in your world if you struggle for 3 games you can kiss your career goodbye.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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You do know there's more than one round in the draft right? Why not take Blackmon and a Right Tackle later on in the draft?

Saffold is a good left tackle, the one thing he struggles with is bullrushers, but with some Weightlifting and good coaching He could be a stud left tackle.

But in your world if you struggle for 3 games you can kiss your career goodbye.

I just don't see Saffold as that good of a LT. I would rather either take Kalil at #2 or trade down a few picks and take either Reiff or Martin, who are both better than Saffold.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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Luck Luck Luck Luck Luck.

You don't pass up a franchise quarterback, once-in-a-decade type prospect so your current legend can play two or three more years at the most. The colts have to weigh the choice between keeping a great for a few more seasons, or drafting a great for an entire decade. I think that alone should settle all matters.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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Like others have posted I think the smart thing to do is pick up the option on Manning and still draft Luck. If Manning can stay healthy he can win with the roster next year but Luck will struggle. I don't see Luck making a big fuss if he doesn't start right away. Let Luck sit, learn the system, get used to the NFL, and get two training camps under his belt. The next season when Manning's cap hit is gone they can use that money to shore up other positions and have one more draft class before Luck hits the field. Costanzo and Ijalana will also be more developed.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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Can we stop making an insane amount of threads about this? There have been way to many over the span of the season... with people bumping old one starting new ones etc. it just makes it hard to have a good conversation in any one and results in people repeating themselves... anything a mod could do about this would be great...

anyway I'll just quote myself from another thread here I guess as I don't know which one people will ride for the next week until someone makes a new one...

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I am not trying to hate on Luck but I have been a main proponent of trading this pick for a long time now.

I know that they can move seamlessly from one franchise QB to another blah blah blah...

As you point out, this team has one SB with arguably the best QB of the last decade. What makes you think that Luck will be better than Peyton and thus anymore likely to bring this team to multiple SB championships?

Even if Luck lives up to the unreal expectations of being the next (insert all time great here) at best he helps this team continue to limp into the playoffs as Manning did and end up with a late round draft pick, thus perpetuating their current situation.

If you trade the pick for a queens ransom and build a solid foundation of a team over the next few years (including possibly another franchise type QB this year or next) I think you have a better shot than outright drafting Luck.

It's crazy but it's possible that if Luck is as good as advertised, he could be the worst thing that happens to the team that drafts him. Whether that be a team giving up their future to trade up and draft one guy or a team with a bad history of late round picks drafting him and perpetuating their current circumstances.
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:38 PM    (permalink
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I am really hoping that Manning is not done and that he will make a full recovery and be playing again next season. No one knows whether or not this will happen; and I agree with the philosophy that his team should make preparations in the event that he never plays again.

What has me baffled is the suggestion that the Colts should draft Luck and if Manning gets back on the field again, Luck could just sit for a year or two and then take over.

Peyton Manning is as tough of a competitor as the NFL has ever seen, even though he carries himself with a cool demeanor. He will either be back or he won't; this remains to be seen. If he never plays again then drafting Luck is the best move possible. However, if Manning comes back, the team will be his and there will be no question about that. There is no way he is going to just roll over and let another QB take over his team.

I believe that if Manning does come back, it will end up being an ugly situation similar to the Montana/Young controversy in San Francisco. Manning will likely get traded down the road and finish his career elsewhere.

Personally, if it were my decision to make, I think I would make the trade and take the picks, which would be monumental for rebuilding a team that is aging and has holes across the board. Trading the pick for a bundle of picks, including several early rounders, from either Miami or Washington, would allow the Colts to load their roster with a core of talent, as well as likely bringing a franchise QB down the road. Andrew Luck alone isn't going to make the Dolphins or Redskins a contender immediately. The 2013 1st rounder from either of those teams that almost certainly would be part of any trade package could easily become a very high pick that could bring in a franchise QB next year. I am of the belief that the team that gets a bundle of picks usually is better off than the team getting the one star player.
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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I know that there's some who think it's a sure thing the Colts take Luck but there's WAY too much stuff coming out of Indy for me to believe they aren't trying to drive the price up to consider a possible trade if the right offer comes along.

I mean for Pete's sake, the question of the Colts getting #2 instead was out there for a whole week and instantly there was a report saying that they're totally comfortable with RGIII (the 2nd most attractive tradebait in the draft) and would take him if they got #2. Seriously? No other team is getting this much "intel" put out there about them... which screams intentional front office leaks to me, especially with Polian involved.

Sure, they could easily end up taking Luck and that may be the likely scenario but between having Peyton and the kind of conflict that could arise with 2 QBs on the roster wanting to play, I think it's far from the guarantee it's being made out to be by some.
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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In my opinion, Luck and Kalil go to start things off and then the Vikings take offers from everyone who needs a QB but didn't sign Matt Flynn to decide what they can get and how far down they are willing to move to take that bounty.

The Colts are stuck in a staring contest with Peyton if he doesn't want to restructure as his payday comes prior to when they can deal him, so they would either need to bite the bullet (pay him) or cut him and get nothing for him though I favor a third option. I think they should work on a restructure plan and then deal him as option No. 1. Option No. 2 is cut him with their final option being pay him and keep him. Paying him and then dealing him is not an option from a financial perspective, so it's not worth discussing.
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:13 AM    (permalink
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Its simply not prudent for the Colts to keep both QBs, or even trade Luck for that matter. Then there's also the double whammy of not giving themselves the cap room to re-sign some of their own free agents. Having said that I think the likes of Wayne will be allowed to walk regardless and they'll spend their WR money on Garcon. If Irsay gets all sentimental about a player that may never be 100% healthy again, and may only have another 2-3 seasons left anyway under a best-case scenario, I fear it could really set the franchise back badly.

1. Cut Manning and draft Luck
Colts save $6.6m in cap space, and $35m+ in cash on Manning.
Dead Cap space: $10m
Money would be there to re-sign FAs and start the rebuilding process around Luck. If Manning is released before the deadline, Manning's cap hit would drop from $17 million (with $35.4 million actually paid out to him in cash) should he stay, down to $10.4 million if he's cut before the deadline.

2. Keep Manning and trade Luck.
Colts spend $35m in cash on Manning (bonus plus salary)
$17m would be Manning's cap number
No QB for the future unless they trade Luck on draft day to a team that already holds the draft rights to RG3. Or wait to use a pick lower down in Rd 1 or Rd 2 on the 2nd tier of QBs.

3. Trade Manning in March 2012 and keep Luck
Colts spend $28m in roster bonus just to let Manning walk away to another team.
Dead Cap space: $38.8m
Little or no money to sign free agents.
Draft picks in 2012/13 draft to rebuild team around Luck.

4. Trade Manning in March 2013 and keep Luck
Colts pay $35m+ in cash for one season of Manning.
Dead cap space: $28m
Draft picks in 2013/14 to rebuild team around Luck.

5. Keep Manning for 2012 and 2013 while Luck sits.
Colts pay nearly $45m in cash to Manning and whatever Luck earns in two seasons to ride the bench. (Newton got $22m over 4 years with a $14.5m signing bonus).
$21m in cap space on Manning/Luck in 2012. Not sure about 2013.

Option 6 would be the Colts agreeing to trade Manning if he agrees to restructure his contract with his new team and thus minimise the impact on the Colts' salary cap. http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/12/07/lomb...=Twitter_blogs

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Old 01-02-2012, 05:53 AM    (permalink
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You draft Luck and keep Manning (and keep paying Manning because Luck is probably cheaper than Painter or Orlovsky anyway with the new rookie deals). Even if Manning plays another 5 years, do you think they'll find a guy even close to Luck or be in position to have their pick of a QB class at any point in that time period?

Do you really dump the face of the franchise who isn't playing like crap as Favre was before the Packers finally got tired of him jerking them around every off-season? No. you keep him because he gives you the best chance to win and because it's the right thing to do.

You draft him and if he sits for 5 years, so what? This ****'s a no-brainer for the Colts, imo. People complicate it because of their desire to see Luck play in the NFL sooner rather than have to wait who knows how long...
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:26 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Phins827 View Post
It is VERY tempting. 6 picks is alot. But, someone else pointed out something to think about. If you look at ANY 6 1st round picks the Colts have taken in the past 15 years, Im sure they would trade all of them to get Manning as a rookie again. There really isnt a price I wouldnt pay to get a franchise QB
Very true especially if you're a Bills fan like myself. At the same time I'd be pretty disappointed to have Peyton Manning as my QB for 10+ years and then let him go because some new kid on the block.

Could you imagine if this was Michael Jordan, John Elway, Wayne Gretzky, Derek Jeter. I know it's a business but don't you owe it to Manning to surround him with the best of talent for the last 3 years of his career?

He deserves that much. The dude built your stadium.
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Cigaro View Post
Luck Luck Luck Luck Luck.

You don't pass up a franchise quarterback, once-in-a-decade type prospect so your current legend can play two or three more years at the most. The colts have to weigh the choice between keeping a great for a few more seasons, or drafting a great for an entire decade. I think that alone should settle all matters.
But you make it seem like Manning has diminishing talent. He's still one of the 4 best QB's in the game.

Why not get as much as you can for Luck and make a 2-3 year run with Manning. The guy is the only reason the Colts have been relevant for the past decade. He built the RCA Dome himself.

I don't think it's as clear cut as you're making it to be.
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:25 AM    (permalink
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Draft Luck.

Peyton Manning is left with one choice. He must perform seppuku.

It's the only way to keep his honor.
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:02 AM    (permalink
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Bradford has had a better first 2 seasons than both Troy Aikman and Drew Brees.
Look at the NFL today. Before Brees hit 5k, Dan Marino was the only QB who had 5k+. Now 4 seasons of 5k+ have been turned in in the last 3 years. Now look at the fact that Bradford is among the worst in the NFL in every passing category. Two years in a row.

This is a new NFL. Plus, Brees was **** until he left SD (could be something to that).
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