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Old 01-02-2012, 04:01 PM    (permalink
Jvig43
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
The Jets will never win a Super Bowl with Mark Sanchez.

If they want to have a shot at a Super Bowl, they need to move on.
Now the entire Bengals, Raiders, and Titans teams are going to get into a plane accident leaving the open playoff spot open for the Jets to make a historic super bowl run. Congratulations, you just murdered about 200 people and killed three franchises due to your ****** predictions, the Redskins say thank you for ******* them by the way.
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Old 01-02-2012, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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IMO the Jets need to move on from Sanchez. The Jets just aren't as talented of a team as they have been in recent years, and even with marginal improvements from Sanchez (lets say he settles in the Flacco~Ryan range) I still don't think they'll have enough to win the Superbowl. A good portion of the roster was constructed with bold moves which were of the win now variety, but unfortunately Sanchez wasn't ready.

Now, the Jets have no flexibility the next couple of years because they're sitting right up against the cap, and have important guys like Pouha and Leonard to sign. Cutting Sanchez would leave them with over $9 million to spend on another QB. It's a risky proposition, but considering the fact that they're probably going nowhere good with Sanchez, and the core entire team is in place for the next 3-5 seasons they really don't have a great choice otherwise.

The team itself consists of about 15 good players, and just a disaster of a roster below it. The core 4 of Revis, Mangold, Harris, (and before this year) Ferguson is elite and in place. They have some other solid veterans mixed in there, but a few key injuries like Thomas,Turner, Leonard, Cumberland, and Mangold basically sunk them this season. The Jets have serious deficiencies at OT, WR, OLB, QB, and Safety and really can't address them to the point of making an impact because of how cap-tied they are. With the right QB however, they might be able to gloss over some of these deficiencies. With an offseason which will probably have Peyton Manning and Matt Flynn as UFA I think they have to make a move if Tannebaum and Rex want to keep their jobs past next season.
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Old 01-02-2012, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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I can't see Jets moving on from Sanchez unless Rex Ryan gets fired. Those 2 seem like they have married fates, if one goes the other will likely follow. The Jets need to return to smash mouth football, replace LT with a younger bigger RB and draft a RT like Riley Reiff. They also need to get some playmakers in the front 7, and adding a pass rusher could also make sense.
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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The question is, what are their options to replace him? Sanchez is clearly not a good quarterback, but it's not like there is an obvious candidate to start over him.
Jason Campbell thinks he's a starting QB in the NFL...
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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Jason Campbell thinks he's a starting QB in the NFL...
I hear Chad Henne also has this thought.

On a slightly more serious note, I also hear Chad Pennington still wants to make a comeback now that his knee and shoulder are healed up.
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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Riddle me this: aside from throwing between the hash marks when he has a clean pocket and can drive off his back foot, what does Sanchez do well?
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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Jason Campbell & Chad Henne > Mark Sanchez
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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I'm probably in the minority but I think Sanchez is just on the verge of a breakout year. He came to the Jets with a huge lack of experience in college with only 16 starts so it came as no surprise to me that his learning curve is taking some time. Add in the fact that the weapons around him on offense are less than top notch and blaming him alone for the offensive drop off seems way too extreme.
The Jets offense under Ryan wants to run a ball control offense with some ability to strike deep on occasion. Where is their running attack??? It took a steep nosedive this past season and I'm not sold on the Holmes/Burress combo at WR. Both have lost a step especially Burress and aren't scaring anybody.
Too many aging veterans at the skill positions, the Jets need to go into the draft and FA and find a stud at RB and some youth at the WR positions if they want to seriously challenge the Pats for 1st place.
If the Jets can give Sanchez some real weapons, I think we'll see a huge breakout year from Sanchez.
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:28 AM    (permalink
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I'm probably in the minority but I think Sanchez is just on the verge of a breakout year. He came to the Jets with a huge lack of experience in college with only 16 starts so it came as no surprise to me that his learning curve is taking some time. Add in the fact that the weapons around him on offense are less than top notch and blaming him alone for the offensive drop off seems way too extreme.
The Jets offense under Ryan wants to run a ball control offense with some ability to strike deep on occasion. Where is their running attack??? It took a steep nosedive this past season and I'm not sold on the Holmes/Burress combo at WR. Both have lost a step especially Burress and aren't scaring anybody.
Too many aging veterans at the skill positions, the Jets need to go into the draft and FA and find a stud at RB and some youth at the WR positions if they want to seriously challenge the Pats for 1st place.
If the Jets can give Sanchez some real weapons, I think we'll see a huge breakout year from Sanchez.
Did you just decide to come on here today and start posting the most asinine things? That offense was very talented his first two years when the O-line was healthy, Braylon was actually making plays, LT had a great year last year as well. I said it before but Sanchez inherited one of the most talented teams when he came to the Jets on both sides of the ball. They reached the AFC championship twice and he played better in the playoffs but alot of wins were in spite of his performance, the defense wasn't up to snuff this year to keep them around in games. What is it that you have seen from him to make you believe he's all of a sudden going to have a break out performance? Sanchez has ******* weapons, thats a cop out excuse for Sanchez and I thought people were coming around to knock those kind of excuses off.
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Old 01-03-2012, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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I'm probably in the minority but I think Sanchez is just on the verge of a breakout year. He came to the Jets with a huge lack of experience in college with only 16 starts so it came as no surprise to me that his learning curve is taking some time. Add in the fact that the weapons around him on offense are less than top notch and blaming him alone for the offensive drop off seems way too extreme.
The Jets offense under Ryan wants to run a ball control offense with some ability to strike deep on occasion. Where is their running attack??? It took a steep nosedive this past season and I'm not sold on the Holmes/Burress combo at WR. Both have lost a step especially Burress and aren't scaring anybody.
Too many aging veterans at the skill positions, the Jets need to go into the draft and FA and find a stud at RB and some youth at the WR positions if they want to seriously challenge the Pats for 1st place.
If the Jets can give Sanchez some real weapons, I think we'll see a huge breakout year from Sanchez.
My question still stands: if you isolate Sanchez, what does he do well besides throw between the hashes when his pocket is clean and he can drive off his back foot (which any starting NFL QB can do).

I've heard this comp a few times from the NFL Matchup guys (Jaws, Hodge, and, most notably, Greg Cosell): there really isn't any difference between Mark Sanchez and Rex Grossman. Grossman's more careless with the ball, but they're both highly inaccurate passers who struggle throwing outside the numbers and downfield.

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Old 01-03-2012, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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Did you just decide to come on here today and start posting the most asinine things? That offense was very talented his first two years when the O-line was healthy, Braylon was actually making plays, LT had a great year last year as well. I said it before but Sanchez inherited one of the most talented teams when he came to the Jets on both sides of the ball. They reached the AFC championship twice and he played better in the playoffs but alot of wins were in spite of his performance, the defense wasn't up to snuff this year to keep them around in games. What is it that you have seen from him to make you believe he's all of a sudden going to have a break out performance? Sanchez has ******* weapons, thats a cop out excuse for Sanchez and I thought people were coming around to knock those kind of excuses off.
Well, let's see, his HC believes in him, he got the Jets to the playoffs twice in his first 2 years and he hasn't really had a breakout year.
The rushing yards dropped about 45 yards a game and Braylon wasn't around anymore, replaced by Burress, a huge drop off IMO. We'll see next year who is right, your HC or you, then we'll know who the ass is????HeHeHe
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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My question still stands: if you isolate Sanchez, what does he do well besides throw between the hashes when his pocket is clean and he can drive off his back foot (which any starting NFL QB can do).

I've heard this comp a few times from the NFL Matchup guys (Jaws, Hodge, and, most notably, Greg Cosell): there really isn't any difference between Mark Sanchez and Rex Grossman. Grossman's more careless with the ball, but they're both highly inaccurate passers who struggle throwing outside the numbers and downfield.
Again, I repeat, his HC BELIEVES in him, that says a lot to me even if you want to ignore it. As a very, very inexperienced QB, he took the Jets to 2 solid playoff runs and is a heck of a lot more polished than Grossman ever dreamed of being.
The team dropped 45 rushing yards a game off of last season and that made the Jet's offense useless because Ryan wants to win with a run first offense and without a stud at RB, it just collapsed this year, but even then, the Jets were in contention right up till the end.
I could be wrong, I have been before, but I see a breakout year coming next season, it all adds up: very, very inexperienced coming out of college, needed a lot of time to bring his learning curve up to snuff, yet he took the Jets to 2 Divisional finals even with his lack of experience.
We'll see next year who is right!!!
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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[quote=Iamcanadian]Again, I repeat, his HC BELIEVES in him, that says a lot to me even if you want to ignore it.

This is cliche word vomit. What does it even mean? Coaches don't tell you how they feel about players with a microphone in their face. They tell you what they think about their players by gameplanning and play selection.

So, basically, Rex Ryan believes in Mark Sanchez enough to minimize his impact on the game as much as possible. With their backs against the wall and needing a win to stay alive in the playoff hunt, Rex and Schottenheimer tore the chains off of Sanchez against the Giants. And the result was a spectacular failure.

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As a very, very inexperienced QB, he took the Jets to 2 solid playoff runs and is a heck of a lot more polished than Grossman ever dreamed of being.
Is this narrative or evaluation? Did he "take" the Jets to 2 solid playoff runs, or was he along for the ride? Why did he "take" them any more than Vince Young/Tebow "just win games"? Or any more than Grossman "took" the Bears to the Superbowl as a youngster?

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The team dropped 45 rushing yards a game off of last season and that made the Jet's offense useless because Ryan wants to win with a run first offense and without a stud at RB, it just collapsed this year, but even then, the Jets were in contention right up till the end.
But his coach believes in him!

Rex Ryan is a smart football mind. He's not banging his head against the wall for the sake of banging his head against the wall. I'm sorry, but if you think any head coach in today's NFL wants to hide his QB and minimize his QB's impact on the game, I don't know what to tell you. Even the most notorious of conservative, ball-control coaches started opening it up in the mid-2000s before retiring (Marty Schottenheimer and Bill Cowher, most notably).

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I could be wrong, I have been before, but I see a breakout year coming next season, it all adds up: very, very inexperienced coming out of college, needed a lot of time to bring his learning curve up to snuff, yet he took the Jets to 2 Divisional finals even with his lack of experience.
We'll see next year who is right!!!
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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His head coach is more full of **** than anyone, every year he says he believes in things that just simply aren't true. Where are his three super bowl rings? How about division champ hats and T shirts? I don't care who Rex believes in, Sanchez is not a good QB. And again, the Jets got to the playoffs in spite of Sanchez (although I mentioned he did play better in the post season). Look what happens when the defense isn't a top unit and the ground game isnt working, they fall to a .500 team and miss the playoffs. HE didn't take the Jets to the playoffs, he got to sit back and throw five yard passes out to LT, and keller all the way to FG's while the defense shut everyone down. Did you happen to see something special in his 3 int game that kept them from the playoffs just last weekend? If we want to use your logic, Rex is a more polished QB because he actually "took" his team to the superbowl and Lovie believed in him. Well Gee, he must be a pretty great QB right? You stated it yourself, the run game dropped off and so did the defense and Sanchez was completely inadequate of putting the team on his shoulders or making the plays that needed to be made to get into the post season. Your argument isn't being backed up by anything other than Rex ryan says he's good (that fat turd says alot of stupid things that aren't true), and that he made it to the AFC championship (yet you already pointed out they are only going to win with a ground game, and when they don't Sanchez didn't take them anywhere). Youre ridiculous haha.
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Circular logic is circular.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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[quote=DraftSavant;2809921]
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian
Again, I repeat, his HC BELIEVES in him, that says a lot to me even if you want to ignore it.

This is cliche word vomit. What does it even mean? Coaches don't tell you how they feel about players with a microphone in their face. They tell you what they think about their players by gameplanning and play selection.

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Very true but until he dumps Sanchez, you have to believe in what he does, not just what he says. And what he does, is play Sanchez.
So, basically, Rex Ryan believes in Mark Sanchez enough to minimize his impact on the game as much as possible. With their backs against the wall and needing a win to stay alive in the playoff hunt, Rex and Schottenheimer tore the chains off of Sanchez against the Giants. And the result was a spectacular failure.

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Here, you are contradicting yourself, you say Ryan minimizes his impact yet in the most important game of the season, he turned to Sanchez and said win it for us. Yes, Sanchez failed but did he really have the weapons compared to the Giants, I think not, was he in Eli class, I think not yet, could he get there, I think we'll find out next year. Again, I may be wrong but I just think it is way too early to jump all over the guy, and suggest your expectations were unrealistic to begin with.
Eli broke out in his 4th year and took the Giants to a SB win, before that he was a huge disappointment very similar to Sanchez.

Is this narrative or evaluation? Did he "take" the Jets to 2 solid playoff runs, or was he along for the ride? Why did he "take" them any more than Vince Young/Tebow "just win games"? Or any more than Grossman "took" the Bears to the Superbowl as a youngster?

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Well, he did it 2 years in a row, usually players along for the ride can only do it once.
But I agree, the jury is still out, I'm not saying it isn't, just that I expect a lot more next year. Players do get better with experience especially QB's.

But his coach believes in him!

Rex Ryan is a smart football mind. He's not banging his head against the wall for the sake of banging his head against the wall. I'm sorry, but if you think any head coach in today's NFL wants to hide his QB and minimize his QB's impact on the game, I don't know what to tell you. Even the most notorious of conservative, ball-control coaches started opening it up in the mid-2000s before retiring (Marty Schottenheimer and Bill Cowher, most notably).

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All I can say is he didn't try to hide him against the Giants, he clearly put the ball in his hand and said win it, which tells me he does believe in the guy for at least now.
I don't think Marty or Cowher ever wanted to open up the game a whole lot and I think Ryan is solidly in their corner as a HC. All he needs now is a stud RB to make his offense go.


Yes, we shall.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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They reached the AFC championship twice and he played better in the playoffs but alot of wins were in spite of his performance, the defense wasn't up to snuff this year to keep them around in games.
This is a myth. They have not yet (ok maybe 1 2 tops) won a game where he had a horrible game and the jets still won.

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My question still stands: if you isolate Sanchez, what does he do well besides throw between the hashes when his pocket is clean and he can drive off his back foot (which any starting NFL QB can do).
He has good numbers in the fourth quarter. (aside from these last couple weeks). Meaning he's good in the no huddle.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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This is a myth. They have not yet (ok maybe 1 2 tops) won a game where he had a horrible game and the jets still won.



He has good numbers in the fourth quarter. (aside from these last couple weeks). Meaning he's good in the no huddle.
1. They certainly won plenty of games when he wasn't good, maybe not horrible but certainly was not playing well.

2. No, it means he plays well against teams that decide to switch to the cover 2 for some inexplainable reason which allows my sister to make throws for huge chunks of yards. He plays well in the fourth when the cover 2 just allows teams to march down field. This has been a discussion on this board for awhile now, and it's amazing teams still try it.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Is this narrative or evaluation? Did he "take" the Jets to 2 solid playoff runs, or was he along for the ride? Why did he "take" them any more than Vince Young/Tebow "just win games"? Or any more than Grossman "took" the Bears to the Superbowl as a youngster?
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HE didn't take the Jets to the playoffs, he got to sit back and throw five yard passes out to LT, and keller all the way to FG's while the defense shut everyone down.
Well in all fairness, we should've made it to the superbowl in 2009. But it was actually our defense that ended up letting us down. (I'm not being a homer, watch a replay of the game). He had two huge TDs and all our defense needed to do was play solid defense for the rest of the game so we can maintain and add on to the lead with our power running game and vanilla offense. But Peyton figured the defense out and we ended up having to play catch up which is never a recipe for success.

The issue has never been with ability with Sanchez. The MAIN issue is his lack of progression. That's what bothers me. He hasn't really gotten any better than last year. We shouldn't have lost the games we were favored in. Also consistency is a big issue.

But it's not fair to minimize his last two years because of his short comings this year.

EDIT: fixed.

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Old 01-03-2012, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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1. They certainly won plenty of games when he wasn't good, maybe not horrible but certainly was not playing well.
He put up game manager numbers. Low yardage, average completion percentage and 1 or 2 tds.

I haven't really seen our defense win us a game when he's thrown multiple INTs.
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Old 01-03-2012, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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I've never seen a quarterback regress as quickly as Mark Sanchez has done over the past season. It was awkward watching him against try to play the position by the end of the season.

Reckon the Jets will stick by him, which I understand from an investment point of view, but I don't think they should.
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Old 01-03-2012, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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My question still stands: if you isolate Sanchez, what does he do well besides throw between the hashes when his pocket is clean and he can drive off his back foot (which any starting NFL QB can do).

I've heard this comp a few times from the NFL Matchup guys (Jaws, Hodge, and, most notably, Greg Cosell): there really isn't any difference between Mark Sanchez and Rex Grossman. Grossman's more careless with the ball, but they're both highly inaccurate passers who struggle throwing outside the numbers and downfield.
Haha. I told my friends who are Redskins fans 3 weeks ago I'd rather have Grossman than Sanchez. At least when Grossman throws picks it is 40 yards down the field.

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Old 01-03-2012, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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Sanchez is better than he gets credit for and has made improvements every season; the Jets should keep him around and try to add more talent around him. Replacing Brian Schottenheimer is something worth looking into.
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Well in all fairness, we should've made it to the superbowl in 2009. But it was actually our defense that ended up letting us down. (I'm not being a homer, watch a replay of the game). He had two huge TDs and all our defense needed to do was play solid defense for the rest of the game so we can maintain and add on to the lead with our power running game and vanilla offense. But Peyton figured the defense out and we ended up having to play catch up which is never a recipe for success.

The issue has never been with ability with Sanchez. The MAIN issue is his lack of progression. That's what bothers me. He hasn't really gotten any better than last year. We shouldn't have lost the games we were favored in. Also consistency is a big issue.

But it's not fair to minimize his last two years because of his short comings this year.
To say your defense let you down when the offense didn't score a single point in the second half is...meh.

I'd say that ability is an issue with Sanchez. He doesn't have great arm talent or accuracy. He's purely a rhythm and anticipation passer who needs nearly pristine conditions to have success.

I dunno, everyone wants to bang on Schotty, but there's a reason he's highly regarded around the league and has been coveted for HC jobs. Mike McCarthy was on a ****** 49er staff with a rookie Alex Smith when GB hired him (and I'm not saying Schotty is that level coach at all, but I think he's the one who actually gets a bad wrap with media and fans).

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