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View Poll Results: Tebow or Stafford?
Tim Tebow 666 90.74%
Matthew Stanford 68 9.26%
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:43 PM    (permalink
robert pancake gallery
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Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular View Post
You're missing the point. The fallacy in this comparison is that Jeter is actually a good baseball player. Tim Tebow is not a good football player.

Example:
Derek Jeter is 8th among active baseball players in career batting average.
Derek Jeter has been top 6 in WAR (among position players) 6 times
Derek Jeter was top 10 in offensive WAR 9 times in 12 seasons from 98-09.
Derek Jeter is 25th ALL TIME in offensive WAR, above Chipper Jones, Ken Griffey Jr, Manny Ramirez and Reggie Jackson (to name a few)

On the other hand:
Tim Tebow makes Chuck Knoblauch look like a dead-eye sharpshooter in the accuracy department
Tim Tebow's accuracy was 34th of 34 this season. There were 2nd stringers better than him.
Tim Tebow's failures in the accuracy department are the worst in DECADES. The last time a passer attempted 250 passes and completed less than 47% of them was Akili Smith in 2000. That Akili Smith. There have been only 20 QBs who have completed the feat since 1967.
Tim Tebow has fumbled a total of 13 times, more than Matt Stafford and Matt Ryan combined

Really, it was a very apt comparison between Jeter and Tebow. There are great similarities between the two. Except Derek Jeter brings tangible, Hall of Fame production to the table while Tim Tebow brings new lows to QB position of the past 20 years.

Good job.
all of these statistics are entirely relevant to the discussion, and i get that; there is a reason why some might say tebow has even struggled his past few games, and it largely has to do with the measurable statistics that show up in the box score that we use to benchmark a player's performance. but i think you would agree that these end statistics are a gross oversimplification of what is actually occurring in the field of play.

when tebow steps into the huddle, use your DVR or whatever and pause the television. pan over to the defense, and look at the eyes of the players in the huddle; look at the way the defenses line up prior to the play, and how there is almost this subtle hesitation in their positioning, like somewhere they have this underlying fear that tebow is going to somehow leave them vulnerable. even marion barber felt it, and tebow was on the sidelines at the time.

i'm not making the argument that tebow is a great quarterback, or even a good quarterback for that matter; i am making the argument that tim tebow transcends the quarterback position in the traditional sense, and we must develop less rudimentary metrics for evaluating the passer's performance besides using passing statistics like completions and yards.

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Old 01-03-2012, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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Its hard when he sounds so much like all the real Tebow apologists like Skip Baseless
Any man who argues with Skip Bayless is a fool.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:32 AM    (permalink
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all of these statistics are entirely relevant to the discussion, and i get that; there is a reason why some might say tebow has even struggled his past few games, and it largely has to do with the measurable statistics that show up in the box score that we use to benchmark a player's performance. but i think you would agree that these end statistics are a gross oversimplification of what is actually occurring in the field of play.

when tebow steps into the huddle, use your DVR or whatever and pause the television. pan over to the defense, and look at the eyes of the players in the huddle; look at the way the defenses line up prior to the play, and how there is almost this subtle hesitation in their positioning, like somewhere they have this underlying fear that tebow is going to somehow leave them vulnerable. even marion barber felt it, and tebow was on the sidelines at the time.

i'm not making the argument that tebow is a great quarterback, or even a good quarterback for that matter; i am making the argument that tim tebow transcends the quarterback position in the traditional sense, and we must develop less rudimentary metrics for evaluating the passer's performance besides using passing statistics like completions and yards.
Or we can just wait for the law of averages to kick in, realize that their is a direct correlation between "rudimentary" passing statistics and on-field performance, and dispel any notion that Tebow is even close to resembling a QB that any NFL team would want to build their franchise around.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:46 AM    (permalink
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Or we can just wait for the law of averages to kick in, realize that their is a direct correlation between "rudimentary" passing statistics and on-field performance, and dispel any notion that Tebow is even close to resembling a QB that any NFL team would want to build their franchise around.
How can you even possibly take that last post serious?
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:17 AM    (permalink
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How did nobody catch that he spelled barry bonds as barry bands like 3 times?? Lol

Also those posts are horrible even by troll standards...you sir have to go back to Breed's and GRF's school of trolling.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:29 AM    (permalink
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How did nobody catch that he spelled barry bonds as barry bands like 3 times?? Lol

Also those posts are horrible even by troll standards...you sire have to go back to Breed's and GRF's school of trolling.
Apparently they were good enough to get like 10 different people worked up haha
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:36 AM    (permalink
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I knew he was trolling when he compared tebus to a low-life like Matthew Stafford...it is obvious Tebow is in the Rodgerzzz tier...Stafford is in the..."he only looks good cuz he's throwing to a gtdamn decepticon for christ sake!" tier.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:37 AM    (permalink
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How did nobody catch that he spelled barry bonds as barry bands like 3 times?? Lol

Also those posts are horrible even by troll standards...you sir have to go back to Breed's and GRF's school of trolling.
Breed and GRF were both overrated (in the case of GRF) or annoying trolls, this guy is just funny.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:46 AM    (permalink
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In the KC game Tebow was indecisive and confused. He'd hold onto the ball way too long, even when receivers were open. That's a guy not trusting what he sees, likely a result of the picks in the Buffalo game.

He wasn't as calm when being pressured as before. Seems desperate to get away from defenders that he doesn't look where he's turning too, often running smack in other defenders. Doesn't do the quick cuts and moves as before.

He has to get his confidence up foremost.
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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When Tebow gets in the game just zoom in a defensive player's crotch, you can just see their balls drop in fear of the slaughter they are about to experience.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Breed and GRF were both overrated (in the case of GRF) or annoying trolls, this guy is just funny.
WRONG! I stood by Breed from the beginning. Few of us could see his true greatness. I think he got under your skin a little.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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The mark of the beast! People had it backwards!
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Clearly Tebow is better, the sample size is large enough at this point.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Not sure if serious.....
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Examining their NFL careers, they're pretty even. Both have one playoff appearance, but it's coming this weekend so we can't compare. Stafford had injury troubles earlier in his career, so we'll have to count that against him. Slight edge Tebow.

In college, Tebow has 2 NCs to Stafford's zero. Tebow has one Heisman and was invited to NY 3 times. Stafford has zero trophies and AFAIK was never invited to NY for the ceremony. So college is a clear point for Tebow.

So I think it's pretty clear that Tebow is the better choice here. I like Stafford a lot, but he has a way to go before he can be called better than Tebow.

I agree 100% with this post. It's laughable that people think Stafford is better than Tebow. Tebow will win a SB before Stafford wins one if he ever does.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Is it April 1st?

... and the irony of Tebow's vote rigger leaving him with 666 votes.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Umm wtf. Why does tim tebow have 600+ votes. He's not THAT good.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Breed was never a good troll. When a troll is 100% obvious right from the jump, it's not good trolling.

Edit: At least this is sort of humorous in the obvious way though, haha.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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I clearly sit corrected. Hopefully Mayhew can dupe the Jets and trade Staff for the Sanchize and turn our ship around.

Even better, try to dupe Elway for Tebow, but he would never take Staff off our hands.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular View Post
You're missing the point. The fallacy in this comparison is that Jeter is actually a good baseball player. Tim Tebow is not a good football player.

Example:
Derek Jeter is 8th among active baseball players in career batting average.
Derek Jeter has been top 6 in WAR (among position players) 6 times
Derek Jeter was top 10 in offensive WAR 9 times in 12 seasons from 98-09.
Derek Jeter is 25th ALL TIME in offensive WAR, above Chipper Jones, Ken Griffey Jr, Manny Ramirez and Reggie Jackson (to name a few)

On the other hand:
Tim Tebow makes Chuck Knoblauch look like a dead-eye sharpshooter in the accuracy department
Tim Tebow's accuracy was 34th of 34 this season. There were 2nd stringers better than him.
Tim Tebow's failures in the accuracy department are the worst in DECADES. The last time a passer attempted 250 passes and completed less than 47% of them was Akili Smith in 2000. That Akili Smith. There have been only 20 QBs who have completed the feat since 1967.
Tim Tebow has fumbled a total of 13 times, more than Matt Stafford and Matt Ryan combined

Really, it was a very apt comparison between Jeter and Tebow. There are great similarities between the two. Except Derek Jeter brings tangible, Hall of Fame production to the table while Tim Tebow brings new lows to QB position of the past 20 years.

Good job.
In baseball, you stand up there against the pitcher. It's one on one. You can easily take individual statistics from baseball because teammates hardly matter in terms of batting statistics. Any time you deliver a hit, or get on base, you're helping your team, and any time you produce an out, you're hurting your team. It's that simple in baseball.

But football is not baseball. The balls are different shapes. The fields are different shapes. Football has more guys on the field. So it's a lot more difficult to produce stats that accurately portray what a player does to impact the win column. The stats do a great job of telling you who is getting yards or touchdowns or tackles, but they don't tell you who is winning games. A few years ago when Brees came within like 15 yards of Marino's passing record, his team didn't even make the playoffs. So if he was so good that year, why wasn't he winning games? It doesn't make any sense. The only logical conclusion is that he wasn't actually good, and was just padding his stats in ways that did not help the team.

You bring up passing accuracy? Who cares about passing accuracy? At the end of the game, do the stat geeks get together and decide who won the game based on being a more accurate passer? Of course not. They decide who wins based on who did more things to win. And usually, the team that wins is the team that has Tim Tebow on it.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:23 PM    (permalink
Sloopy
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This is probably one of my favorite videos involving skip ever... and Suggs with the ball so hard university T-shirt. LMAO

As for this poll... LOL how did 671 people vote for Tebow? I don't even think we have that many active users.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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This is probably one of my favorite videos involving skip ever... and Suggs with the ball so hard university T-shirt. LMAO

As for this poll... LOL how did 671 people vote for Tebow? I don't even think we have that many active users.
People recognize greatness
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) View Post
In baseball, you stand up there against the pitcher. It's one on one. You can easily take individual statistics from baseball because teammates hardly matter in terms of batting statistics. Any time you deliver a hit, or get on base, you're helping your team, and any time you produce an out, you're hurting your team. It's that simple in baseball.

But football is not baseball. The balls are different shapes. The fields are different shapes. Football has more guys on the field. So it's a lot more difficult to produce stats that accurately portray what a player does to impact the win column. The stats do a great job of telling you who is getting yards or touchdowns or tackles, but they don't tell you who is winning games. A few years ago when Brees came within like 15 yards of Marino's passing record, his team didn't even make the playoffs. So if he was so good that year, why wasn't he winning games? It doesn't make any sense. The only logical conclusion is that he wasn't actually good, and was just padding his stats in ways that did not help the team.

You bring up passing accuracy? Who cares about passing accuracy? At the end of the game, do the stat geeks get together and decide who won the game based on being a more accurate passer? Of course not. They decide who wins based on who did more things to win. And usually, the team that wins is the team that has Tim Tebow on it.
Or, maybe the logical conclusion was that the rest of the team wasn't pulling their weight, and Brees was winning games, but there are 22 guys on the field at once, and you can't have just one playing great to win.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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You bring up passing accuracy? Who cares about passing accuracy? At the end of the game, do the stat geeks get together and decide who won the game based on being a more accurate passer? Of course not. They decide who wins based on who did more things to win. And usually, the team that wins is the team that has Tim Tebow on it.
Upon my initial reading of this thread, I thought your Tebow love was all in jest, but apparently not. The only thing Tebow supporters can bring up when discussing him is that he wins. You yourself just basically said Tebow is more of a winner than Stafford.

But Tebow is 7-4 while Stafford is 10-6. Tebow has a slightly higher winning percentage (.636 vs. .625). But how many playoff teams did he beat? None. And who won when the Broncos played the Lions? Oh yeah, Stafford and the Lions by five touchdowns. So similar winning percentages, vastly superior stats,a head-to-head domination, and vastly superior tools are enough to let me say Stafford is better.

This thread was created by an obvious troll. The fact that there are actually a few people that think Tebow is a better QB than Matt Stafford is absolutely shocking.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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People recognize greatness
This must be it... more like people mistake mediocrity that the media has a hard on over for greatness
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