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Old 01-04-2012, 01:20 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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[quote=DBNYDP;2811263]AFAIK Victor Cruz was in the NFL before 2011, I remember him doing really well in the preseason, so you can't really say that it was a good 2011 draft move.

Demarco Murray, and Andy Dalton were two of the best moves IMO.

Unfortunately, Demarco Murray lasted in the draft till round 3 because of injury concerns. That hasn't changed as a pro.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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My top 3 selections for each round ( in no particular order)

Round 1.
1. Cam Newton -started all 16 games..35 total touchdowns... 4000+ passing yards and 700+ rushing yards.
2. Von Miller- started 15 games..64 tackles..11.5 sacks..1FF
3. Aldon Smith- started in 0 games..14 sacks..2FF

Round 2.
1. Andy Dalton- 3300+ passing yards... 20 tds...152 rushing yards...1 rushing td.
2. Jabaal Sheard- 55 tackles...8.5 sacks...5 ff ..... :O
3. Stefen Wisniewski- ******* beast :)

Round 3.
1 .Demarco Murray- 800+ rushing yards...5.5 ypc...180 receiving yards...2tds
2. Jurrell Casey- 52 tackles...2.5 sacks...1 FF
3. Justin Houston-56 tackles...5.5 sacks...1FF

Round 4.
1. K.J Wright- 65 tackles...2 sacks...12 games started
2. Colin McCarthy- 68 tackles..1 int...2 FF...7 games started.
3. Roy Helu- 640 rushing yards....4.2 ypc...379 rec yards..3 total TD

Round 5.
1. Pernell McPhee- 23 tackles...6 sacks...1 FF
2. Karl Klug- 20 tackles...7 sacks...2 FF
3. Danarius Moore WR- 33 rec..618 yards...5 td


computer connection died so I didn't do rounds 6-7, doubt I could pick 3 anyway.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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His first 3 NFL catches went for TDs!
I think he's a great fit as a 1 trick pony, lets see how he develops over this full offseason. I liked him a lot going into the draft and he really does help a Ravens offense that could use all the help it can get with Flacco at QB. Smith really compliments that big arm well.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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i thought this thread was about draft moves not draft picks...
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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He said draft picks and moves in the first post.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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Tried to tell em.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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Tried to tell em.
Yeah you and me both. Until the Falcons picked Julio I was screaming for him and Little, I wanted the Falcons to pick both of em up. I really liked Moore at TN, and that was hard to do.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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as a Chiefs fan, getting Justin Houston in the 3rd round as compensation from a trade down in the 1st round was insane.

He's a first round talent who will get 10 sacks next year. The guy was said to be a player who took plays off and didn't care. He didn't show that label at all this year.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DoughBoy View Post
My top 3 selections for each round ( in no particular order)

Round 1.
1. Cam Newton -started all 16 games..35 total touchdowns... 4000+ passing yards and 700+ rushing yards.
2. Von Miller- started 15 games..64 tackles..11.5 sacks..1FF
3. Aldon Smith- started in 0 games..14 sacks..2FF

Round 2.
1. Andy Dalton- 3300+ passing yards... 20 tds...152 rushing yards...1 rushing td.
2. Jabaal Sheard- 55 tackles...8.5 sacks...5 ff ..... :O
3. Stefen Wisniewski- ******* beast :)

Round 3.
1 .Demarco Murray- 800+ rushing yards...5.5 ypc...180 receiving yards...2tds
2. Jurrell Casey- 52 tackles...2.5 sacks...1 FF
3. Justin Houston-56 tackles...5.5 sacks...1FF

Round 4.
1. K.J Wright- 65 tackles...2 sacks...12 games started
2. Colin McCarthy- 68 tackles..1 int...2 FF...7 games started.
3. Roy Helu- 640 rushing yards....4.2 ypc...379 rec yards..3 total TD

Round 5.
1. Pernell McPhee- 23 tackles...6 sacks...1 FF
2. Karl Klug- 20 tackles...7 sacks...2 FF
3. Danarius Moore WR- 33 rec..618 yards...5 td


computer connection died so I didn't do rounds 6-7, doubt I could pick 3 anyway.
Casey, Wright, McCarthy and Moore were all on my sleeper list. And honestly, I didn't think KJ was ready this year but I thought he'd be a special teamer who could be positioned to start in 2012.
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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Seahawks drafting Wright in the fourth round and Richard Sherman in the fifth. Wright has been a solid, but flawed, 'backer, but since he's better than Aaron Curry ever was, I'd consider that a success. Sherman has been one of the better cornerbacks in football this season. He had trouble against Larry Fitzgerald during the last game of the season (though, who hasn't?) but other than that, he's been nothing short of excellent.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:38 PM    (permalink
Bengalsrocket
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They're in a rebuilding phase. Once they add playmakers to that offense, they will be an 11- or 12- win team.

Taylor, Sheard, Haden, and Ward will form the backbone of an elite defense for years to come.
It's really hard to become an 11-12 win team when you play in a division with 2 teams are already 11-12 win teams. I would love nothing more than to see the Bengals OR Browns overtake the Ravens OR Steelers as perennial contenders.

However, I don't see that happening until either team's defense shows true signs of slows down or Ben Roethlisberger gets 25 to life. It's just not realistic for a division to have 3 10+ win teams (though it is technically possibly). So in order for the Browns to be the kind of team you think they're going to be, they have to beat out the Bengals for 3rd place then beat out two of the beast AFC teams, from top to bottom, for 2nd place and likely first place. I just don't see it.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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If the Ravens win the SB Ray Lewis and Ed Reed will probably retire so they could be heading down. I know they still have Rice,Suggs and Haloti Ngata but I always felt like Ray Lewis made everyone around him better.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:09 PM    (permalink
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Trading out of round 1 so the Saints could draft a bad knees running back and we could take a guy who didn't even play hardly at LSU.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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It's also so ****** up because IF Mark Ingram is better than Ivory, it's not by much at all....
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Ya, if you believe in 4 win seasons, it was a great trade, the Browns appear to be stuck there for the foreseeable future.
If this team adds a QB/Receiver/RT you will see a completely different offense/team, that may seem far stretched but with the possibility of Flynn/Manning/RG3/Luck ETC... With the wide crop of talented players in FA this year, there is a very good chance we're competitive next year.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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It's really hard to become an 11-12 win team when you play in a division with 2 teams are already 11-12 win teams. I would love nothing more than to see the Bengals OR Browns overtake the Ravens OR Steelers as perennial contenders.

However, I don't see that happening until either team's defense shows true signs of slows down or Ben Roethlisberger gets 25 to life. It's just not realistic for a division to have 3 10+ win teams (though it is technically possibly). So in order for the Browns to be the kind of team you think they're going to be, they have to beat out the Bengals for 3rd place then beat out two of the beast AFC teams, from top to bottom, for 2nd place and likely first place. I just don't see it.
The Steelers and the Ravens are both very old on defense, and have few young players waiting in the wings to replace the Hall of Famers on their rosters.

I have a hard time seeing the Steelers and Ravens remaining powerhouses for more than 1-2 more years in that division, and Cleveland and Cincy will become the new powerhouses in their stead.
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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The Steelers and the Ravens are both very old on defense, and have few young players waiting in the wings to replace the Hall of Famers on their rosters.
How are the Ravens old on defense? Ray, Ed, Redding and Jarrett Johnson (kinda, he's 30) are but Redding and Johnson are easily replaceable with two up and comers in Pernell McPhee who was one of the steals of the draft and 25 year old Paul Kruger. After that Terrell Suggs is playing as well as any defensive player in the league and is in his prime at age 29. Ngata and Bernard Pollard our the next oldest starters on our defense at the ripe old age of 27. Every other starter on our defense is younger.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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How is the Ravens old on defense? Ray, Ed, Redding and Jarrett Johnson (kinda, he's 30) are but Redding and Johnson are easily replaceable with two up and comers in Pernell McPhee who was one of the steals of the draft and 25 year old Paul Kruger. After that Terrell Suggs is playing as well as any defensive player in the league and is in his prime at age 29. Ngata and Bernard Pollard our the next oldest starters on our defense at the ripe old age of 27. Every other starter on our defense is younger.
This. And if you think that the Steelers won't find more talent in the future you're kidding yourself. I know LeBeau can't coach forever, but as long as he's there and they continue find guys late in the draft to bolster their depth they'll continue to be a good team.

People have been predicting that age will catch up to these two defenses for 5 years now. I'll believe it when I see it.

Furthermore, despite how much people fight it, big Ben is a likely future HoFer and continues to be a key cog in that team's success and he'll be there for many more years.

Like I said, I would love to see it happen. But unfortunately for the residents of Ohio both of our teams are in a strong division that will continue to be tough for many more years.
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:01 AM    (permalink
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This. And if you think that the Steelers won't find more talent in the future you're kidding yourself. I know LeBeau can't coach forever, but as long as he's there and they continue find guys late in the draft to bolster their depth they'll continue to be a good team.
The problem is that they haven't been finding talent recently. The players picked in the 2008, 2009, 2010 drafts are the ones that are supposed to form the core of the team in the next 5 years.

Let's take a look at their drafts from 2008-2010:

2008:
RB Rashard Mendenhall - A league-average RB with no special traits.
WR Limas Sweed - Complete non-factor.
LB Bruce Davis - Complete non-factor.
OT Tony Hills - Complete non-factor.
QB Dennis Dixon - Below-average backup QB.
LB Mike Humpal - Complete non-factor.
FS Ryan Mundy - Complete non-factor.

2009:
DE Evander Hood - I've watched this guy alot this year and he's about the lowest-impact DL I've ever seen on the Steelers. He does next to nothing. He's, at this point, a below-average player and after 3 years in the league, I don't see him ever being the kind of player Keisel or Smith were.
OT Kraig Urbik - Complete non-factor.
WR Mike Wallace - This guy is pretty good, but he's not a premiere #1 WR. A deep threat that is dependent on Ben throwing him bombs.
CB Keenan Lewis - Complete non-factor.
FS Joe Burnnett - Complete non-factor.
RB Frank Summers - Complete non-factor.
NT Rashon Harris - Complete non-factor.
C AQ Shipley - Complete non-factor.
TE David Johnson - Complete non-factor.

2010:
C Maurkice Pouncey - This guy is a very overrated player. He's solid, but he's hardly a Pro Bowl caliber OL. Chris Meyers and Nick Mangold are heads and shoulders above him in the AFC alone, and the Steelers rarely skip a beat when he's out. I'd say he's about average to slightly above-average in the running game and below-average as a pass blocker.
LB Jason Worilds - This guy is still pretty young and might have potential down the road, but in the few games he played this year he was washed out in the run game and failed to generate much pressure off the edge. Could develop into something down the road, but shows no signs of it now, and wasn't a heralded prospect in the 2010 draft (compared to 2007 with Woodley, who was a beast in college)
WR Emmanuel Sanders - Decent third or fourth WR.
DE Thaddeus Gibson - Complete non-factor.
OG Chris Scott - Complete non-factor.
CB Crezdon Butler - Complete non-factor.
LB Steven Sylvester - Complete non-factor.
RB Jonathan Dwyer - Other than some decent preseason games, complete non-factor.
WR Antonio Brown - Another Mike Wallace -esque burner / deep threat that will never be a true #1 WR but looks good with a deep ball passer such as Ben.
DT Doug Worthington - Complete non-factor.

So in conclusion, they have basically extracted nothing from the past three drafts except a handful of speedy deep threat WRs, a throughly average RB (Mendenhall), an average C (Pouncey), a zero-pedigree project OLB (Worilds), and a below-average, low-impact 3-4 DE (Hood). Where are the defensive pieces that will replace the stars they had drafted in the past? I don't see it.


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People have been predicting that age will catch up to these two defenses for 5 years now. I'll believe it when I see it.
Once Polamalu, Harrison, Farrior, Hampton and Keisel all fall apart, that defense is going to take a rapid nosedive based on the lack of replacements at all of those positions.

And again, Dick LeBeau is old as dirt and could retire / pass on at any moment as well.

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Furthermore, despite how much people fight it, big Ben is a likely future HoFer and continues to be a key cog in that team's success and he'll be there for many more years.
Ben is a great QB but he's constantly injured and eventually all of those injuries will just pile up and turn him into a shell of his former self. Guys like that just suddenly hit a wall one day where they lose their mobility and their resilience.

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Like I said, I would love to see it happen. But unfortunately for the residents of Ohio both of our teams are in a strong division that will continue to be tough for many more years.
I am confident that the Browns and/or the Bengals will run that division as early as 2013, maybe even 2012. And I don't even have a stake in the matter, as an Eagles fan.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
The problem is that they haven't been finding talent recently. The players picked in the 2008, 2009, 2010 drafts are the ones that are supposed to form the core of the team in the next 5 years.

Let's take a look at their drafts from 2008-2010:

2008:
RB Rashard Mendenhall - A league-average RB with no special traits.
WR Limas Sweed - Complete non-factor.
LB Bruce Davis - Complete non-factor.
OT Tony Hills - Complete non-factor.
QB Dennis Dixon - Below-average backup QB.
LB Mike Humpal - Complete non-factor.
FS Ryan Mundy - Complete non-factor.

2009:
DE Evander Hood - I've watched this guy alot this year and he's about the lowest-impact DL I've ever seen on the Steelers. He does next to nothing. He's, at this point, a below-average player and after 3 years in the league, I don't see him ever being the kind of player Keisel or Smith were.
OT Kraig Urbik - Complete non-factor.
WR Mike Wallace - This guy is pretty good, but he's not a premiere #1 WR. A deep threat that is dependent on Ben throwing him bombs.
CB Keenan Lewis - Complete non-factor.
FS Joe Burnnett - Complete non-factor.
RB Frank Summers - Complete non-factor.
NT Rashon Harris - Complete non-factor.
C AQ Shipley - Complete non-factor.
TE David Johnson - Complete non-factor.

2010:
C Maurkice Pouncey - This guy is a very overrated player. He's solid, but he's hardly a Pro Bowl caliber OL. Chris Meyers and Nick Mangold are heads and shoulders above him in the AFC alone, and the Steelers rarely skip a beat when he's out. I'd say he's about average to slightly above-average in the running game and below-average as a pass blocker.
LB Jason Worilds - This guy is still pretty young and might have potential down the road, but in the few games he played this year he was washed out in the run game and failed to generate much pressure off the edge. Could develop into something down the road, but shows no signs of it now, and wasn't a heralded prospect in the 2010 draft (compared to 2007 with Woodley, who was a beast in college)
WR Emmanuel Sanders - Decent third or fourth WR.
DE Thaddeus Gibson - Complete non-factor.
OG Chris Scott - Complete non-factor.
CB Crezdon Butler - Complete non-factor.
LB Steven Sylvester - Complete non-factor.
RB Jonathan Dwyer - Other than some decent preseason games, complete non-factor.
WR Antonio Brown - Another Mike Wallace -esque burner / deep threat that will never be a true #1 WR but looks good with a deep ball passer such as Ben.
DT Doug Worthington - Complete non-factor.

So in conclusion, they have basically extracted nothing from the past three drafts except a handful of speedy deep threat WRs, a throughly average RB (Mendenhall), an average C (Pouncey), a zero-pedigree project OLB (Worilds), and a below-average, low-impact 3-4 DE (Hood). Where are the defensive pieces that will replace the stars they had drafted in the past? I don't see it.




Once Polamalu, Harrison, Farrior, Hampton and Keisel all fall apart, that defense is going to take a rapid nosedive based on the lack of replacements at all of those positions.

And again, Dick LeBeau is old as dirt and could retire / pass on at any moment as well.



Ben is a great QB but he's constantly injured and eventually all of those injuries will just pile up and turn him into a shell of his former self. Guys like that just suddenly hit a wall one day where they lose their mobility and their resilience.



I am confident that the Browns and/or the Bengals will run that division as early as 2013, maybe even 2012. And I don't even have a stake in the matter, as an Eagles fan.
You're such an idiot its unbelievable! You make completely random predictions that you are "certain" will happen and you just get proved wrong again and again. I dont understand why you continue to make predictions when you're always wrong.

Didnt you guarantee the Giants would never get into the playoffs? Didnt you think the Redskins were going to the superbowl?

I also dont understand how you are saying the Steelers are drafting bad when they got Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Mendenhall and Maurkice Pouncey. Dont even tell me Pouncey is overrated because i know you just got that BS from PFF and saying Wallace and Brown will never be number 1 receivers is crazy. Can you tell me why please because there is no reason they cant. TBH Mike Wallace is already a number 1 receiver.
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Old 01-06-2012, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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You're such an idiot its unbelievable! You make completely random predictions that you are "certain" will happen and you just get proved wrong again and again. I dont understand why you continue to make predictions when you're always wrong.
Rather than just mindlessly spouting off, maybe you can actually bring up a salient point with which you disagree?

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Didnt you guarantee the Giants would never get into the playoffs? Didnt you think the Redskins were going to the superbowl?
I guaranteed that the Giants and Bears would not win a single playoff game this year. One of these teams is out of the playoffs, and the other will go one-and-done on Sunday.

I was extremely high on the Redskins this year, but I was wrong about their QB situation being passable. It's downright awful but if they obtain a legit QB, such as, say Peyton Manning, they're definitely a Super Bowl favorite, imho.

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I also dont understand how you are saying the Steelers are drafting bad when they got Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Mendenhall and Maurkice Pouncey. Dont even tell me Pouncey is overrated because i know you just got that BS from PFF and saying Wallace and Brown will never be number 1 receivers is crazy. Can you tell me why please because there is no reason they cant. TBH Mike Wallace is already a number 1 receiver.
Again, no defensive playmakers in these drafts whatsoever. That defense will take a nose-dive when the old guys fall apart.

And despite what people want to think, Maurkice Pouncey is *definitely* overrated. Do you EVER watch him in games?

Wallace and Brown are pure speed burners. They're no Larry Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson or Jerry Rice or Terrell Owens or Andre Johnson. A #1 WR has to be able to run ever route, whether that's a 9 route downfield or a curl route or a quick slant or a flat route over the middle. Wallace and Brown are not big enough or physical enough to do this; they are pure 9 route or post route guys.
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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How about pudits labeling Trent Baalke's draft as one full of projects, yet we've gotten MAJOR contributions from Aldon Smith, Chris Culliver, Kendall Hunter, and Bruce Miller, who is a Pro Bowl alternate at a position he has played for only 6 months.
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Old 01-06-2012, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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How about pudits labeling Trent Baalke's draft as one full of projects, yet we've gotten MAJOR contributions from Aldon Smith, Chris Culliver, Kendall Hunter, and Bruce Miller, who is a Pro Bowl alternate at a position he has played for only 6 months.
I thought Aldon Smith was a reach in the top 10 but that clearly has turned out to be one of the best draft picks of this class.
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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Rather than just mindlessly spouting off, maybe you can actually bring up a salient point with which you disagree?
How about starting with that the Browns have no decent running backs and no starting caliber recievers. If you think a rookie could come to Cleveland and turn them into a 10 win team it shows a huge lack of knowledge.



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I guaranteed that the Giants and Bears would not win a single playoff game this year. One of these teams is out of the playoffs, and the other will go one-and-done on Sunday.

I was extremely high on the Redskins this year, but I was wrong about their QB situation being passable. It's downright awful but if they obtain a legit QB, such as, say Peyton Manning, they're definitely a Super Bowl favorite, imho.
So you're certain the Giants will lose at home aginst a team that got abused by Drew Brees only two weeks ago. Im not saying i think the Giants will win but to say the Giants WILL be one and one shows i great deal of niavity considering how wrong you have been in the past.

Hahahaha! You make me laugh. "If the redskins had peyton manning they would be supebowl contenders". If you didnt realise, without Manning the Colts went 2-14 whereas with him they have been regualar superbowl challengers. It doesnt take a genius to work out that if you put an elite quarterback on a talented team without a quarterback, they will become superbowl contenders.

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And despite what people want to think, Maurkice Pouncey is *definitely* overrated. Do you EVER watch him in games?
Im not paying attention to anything you say that you have just took from PFF. That website is complete garbage and if you didnt realise no one gives a f*** about it.

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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Wallace and Brown are pure speed burners. They're no Larry Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson or Jerry Rice or Terrell Owens or Andre Johnson. A #1 WR has to be able to run ever route, whether that's a 9 route downfield or a curl route or a quick slant or a flat route over the middle. Wallace and Brown are not big enough or physical enough to do this; they are pure 9 route or post route guys.
So can Greg Jennings not be a no1 reciever because hes 5'11? Was Torry Holt to small to be a go to guy? You should stop looking at how tall a guy is to see whether hes a good receiver you should look at their skill set and then you would realise Mike Wallace can be a #1 receiver for any team.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:27 AM    (permalink
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How are the Ravens old on defense? Ray, Ed, Redding and Jarrett Johnson (kinda, he's 30) are but Redding and Johnson are easily replaceable with two up and comers in Pernell McPhee who was one of the steals of the draft and 25 year old Paul Kruger. After that Terrell Suggs is playing as well as any defensive player in the league and is in his prime at age 29. Ngata and Bernard Pollard our the next oldest starters on our defense at the ripe old age of 27. Every other starter on our defense is younger.
Bernard Pollard is terrible in coverage. He's lucky Reed is there to cover his ass because he blows chunks in that aspect.
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