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Old 01-05-2012, 06:06 AM    (permalink
Seamus2602
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Of the last 11 Superbowl champions 8 of them were in the top 6 teams in terms of scoring defence. Of the 3 teams that weren't (the Indianapolis Colts, the New York Giants and the New Orleans Saints) all three had major contributions by their defence. The Colts for example played much better defensively in the Superbowl run, averaging only 239 yards per game in the playoffs (a stat that would have given them the #1 ranked defence in the regular season) and 16 points per game (a stat that would have given them the #4 ranked scoring defence in the regular season). For the Giants it wasn't Eli Manning and Plaxico Burress who really beat the Patriots. It was more Justin Tuck raping Tom Brady every single play, while the Saints defence wasn't statistically good it was very opportunistic, forcing a huge number of turnovers. So even the teams that one with statistically bad defences actually played good defence to win the Superbowl.
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In Football the object is for the Field General to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the Defence by hitting his Receivers with deadly accuracy, in spite of the Blitz, even if he has to use the Shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack which punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy’s Defensive Line.

In Baseball the object is to go home and be safe.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:58 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
don't you remember the defensive LSU butt ******* WVU mercilessly early in the year? How about the Ravens, 49ers, Steelers and Broncos who all made the playoffs with extremely strong defenses (ok, maybe the broncs made it on divine intervention and a **** division, but their D is the reason they were in that place to do so)

let's just see how the playoffs play out
Didn't WVU still put up like 500 yards of offense?
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:37 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post

But I think the illegal contact rule shouldn't be an automatic first down. 5 yards like an offsides and a free play.
Screw that. Illegal contact shouldn't be illegal. Defensive backs should be able to push , bump, tickle, massage, **** the receiver's sister, and anything else that isn't holding as long as the ball isn't thrown yet. If a receiver can't continue to run his route because a defensive back slaps his ass 7 yards down field, he needs to get his ass off the field.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:42 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jrdrylie View Post
Screw that. Illegal contact shouldn't be illegal. Defensive backs should be able to push , bump, tickle, massage, **** the receiver's sister, and anything else that isn't holding as long as the ball isn't thrown yet. If a receiver can't continue to run his route because a defensive back slaps his ass 7 yards down field, he needs to get his ass off the field.
But if that's the case, then teams can just throw any 6th round CB on to the field and play the awful Cover-2 scheme.

With more restrictive press-coverage rules, teams actually have to invest in physically talented CB prospects who can run precise routes alongside the WR and play the ball in the air and predict where the QB will throw the football.

I like the rules because it favors teams that invest in talented game-changing CBs (like Asante Samuel) early in the draft.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by StickSkills View Post
Didn't WVU still put up like 500 yards of offense?

LSU won that game with defense by forcing turnovers and scoring on specials.
I wouldn't say LSU's defense really shut down WVU.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:55 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bengalsrocket View Post
Bengals too, basically. It's definitely not that offense that got us in the play offs this year lol.
you have Brian Leonard. Your team was carried into the playoffs on his majestic, broad, muscular shoulders
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:57 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by StickSkills View Post
Didn't WVU still put up like 500 yards of offense?
which they did with forcing turnovers...and their defense.
A defensive powerhouse with an average at best offense put up huge numbers...because of their defense and special teams. That's what I'm getting at. The great defenses and special teams are the ones that usually come out on top. Look at the BCS title game for crying out loud.

Look at the Giants D in 2007 that shut down that juggernaut of an offense, and that team wasn't even that talented. (Reggie Torbor and Geoffery Pope saw significant action, think about that)
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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I think people are confusing the viability of good defensive football with the prevalence of it. The former isn't the issue. We've seen recent examples that good defense works. I don't think anyone would really argue otherwise.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
Not to mention what I pointed out, it just so happens that two offensive power houses won it in the past two years and everyone forgets about all the amazing defenses from the past decade.
Also, not to mention that one of those offensive powerhouses that won the Superbowl was also ranked 5th in total defense. Just because this years version of the Packers defense is despicable people seem to forget that last year they were pretty damn good.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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There was an article on ESPN one time about how the offensive revolution is football is highly overrated. Scoring has remained steady for the past 40 years. There is more passing yards sure, but QBs are better than ever and WR's are bigger and more athletic than ever. Calvin Johnson, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson are absolute freaks. Also the position of RB is just so hard with the size and speed of the game. Its very rare for a guy to be able to be a workhorse back for multiple seasons. Its alot easier to have QB and WR's together for years than a RB. High turnover at the position and splitting carries has alot to do with the less use of running games.
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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The NFL has changed because its what people want. I remember watching the LSU vs Alabama game and after going on this forum, people were saying "what a let down", "worst game of the year", "what a bore fest".

Face it, the game has changed because we have changed.
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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The NFL has changed because its what people want. I remember watching the LSU vs Alabama game and after going on this forum, people were saying "what a let down", "worst game of the year", "what a bore fest".

Face it, the game has changed because we have changed.
People who said things like that are the real let down.
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WCH View Post
While there is undeniably some inflation, recent rule changes get too much credit/blame for the passing explosion that we've seen over the past five years. This isn't really anything new.

The latest generation of NFL coaches have simply mastered what a few people were trying to do 20 years ago, by taking existing (complex) NFL-level offenses and adding spread elements. The Houston Oilers were running a much simpler spread and posting similar results way before the latest round of rule changes.

http://pfref.com/pi/share/hsIGw
http://pfref.com/pi/share/ypNJO

The liberalization of the passing rules took place in 1978, and the potential for huge passing seasons has existed ever since. This is just a weird time in NFL history because multiple teams are running spread formations and have the QB talent to pull it off.
This is what I believe as well.

The players/coaches have gotten better and the nature of the sport is such that the more advanced/bigger/faster/more athletic the players/strategies get, the better for the offense. This is because of the simple fact that the offense knows what it's doing and the defense is reacting. They'll always be a step behind. Hence the phrase, "there's no defense for a perfect pass/play." Today, we're seeing a lot more perfect passes/plays. And sure the rule changes help to some extent, but I think blaming the rules is way overblown.

If you've every played DB, you'd know that it is one of the most difficult positions to play in any sport.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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You're over-reacting. College football doesn't even have Bill Pollian. They just suck on defense.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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You're over-reacting. College football doesn't even have Bill Pollian. They just suck on defense.
Not the SEC.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:19 PM    (permalink
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you have Brian Leonard. Your team was carried into the playoffs on his majestic, broad, muscular shoulders
And I have his autograph :)
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Not the SEC.
The schools that are typical powerhouses just had a bad year (and USC was banished). I think it's fairly obvious that a game like Clemson vs WVU has zero potential to be good football. (The ACC in BCS games is 2-13... seriously and the Little East can only beat the ACC, really)

Everyone knows there are 10-15 teams worth watching yearly and some or most of those teams had down years. It was coincidence that the NFL had an uptick in scoring (which really wasn't an uptick this year, but for the past 3 years).

I heard someone say something interesting that everyone will probably laugh at, but it was basically "Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Peyton Manning have ruined the NFL more than the rules have. With how good they are, most teams have to take more risks passing the ball. To keep up with offenses like that, playbooks have basically become passer friendly system that encourage risk taking."

Maybe that's wrong or nuts, but it certainly is possible.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Swings and roundabouts, eventually defenses will stop the spread nicely and teams will resort to power running again. The NFL is all about trends and the spread is hot right now.
I agree, the NFL has always had pendulum swings based on new ideas and new systems designed to handle what most teams have swung to. However, I think the defense will struggle a bit no matter what. Safety issues have necessitated certain changes to the rules which make it more difficult for the defense to play tough and no sensible person wants a swing back against these rules.

Offenses are far more powerful today for a number of reasons a lot of people fall to realize.

Artificial surfaces have taken mud out of the playing equation and made offenses more sustainable both in college and the NFL.

College QB's coming into the NFL rarely require the development time that was required in the past, they throw the ball 3, 4 and even 5 times as much in college as they used to and QB's come into the NFL far more ready than previously was possible.

This has also aided the larger and smaller WR's, to get far more exposure to catching the ball, better preparing them for the next level also.

RB's and TE's also gained a huge amount of experience in catching the ball, something they had to learn from the beginning when they used to enter the NFL.

College OLmen used to come into the NFL with almost no experience in pass protecting because very few top programs throw the ball a whole lot back even 10 years ago. Most came from run first offenses in college and had to learn pass blocking almost from scratch.

All these factors have aided the strong development of passing attacks in the NFL and that isn't going to change no matter the rules or new defensive systems.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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I find very little wrong with the NFL game today, aside from the fact that too many of the great and good RB's get injured, and the fact that no DB's know how to tackle anymore.

They just dive into players knees, legs, or they launch into receivers wherever they hit, head, chest, whatever.

Aside from the guys getting their ACLs & MCLs ripped in half, and their legs snapped, I love the NFL game as-is. Not understanding what the complaining is all about.

Ratings are better than ever, esp compared to other sports.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:26 PM    (permalink
Viddy Franks 'n Beans
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The game has changed, but the players are the same.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:41 PM    (permalink
CDCB14
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
I find very little wrong with the NFL game today, aside from the fact that too many of the great and good RB's get injured, and the fact that no DB's know how to tackle anymore.

They just dive into players knees, legs, or they launch into receivers wherever they hit, head, chest, whatever.

Aside from the guys getting their ACLs & MCLs ripped in half, and their legs snapped, I love the NFL game as-is. Not understanding what the complaining is all about.

Ratings are better than ever, esp compared to other sports.
This is coming from a Packers fan, where Aaron Rodgers can take a nap and play chess in the pocket before effortlessly flicking the ball to any of his 342346134 weapons.

I still love football of course, but I think the integrity of the game has dropped a decent amount. Who cares if the ratings are up? Obviously they are going to be when every game is a shoot out. That's what the casual fan wants to see. That doesn't mean it's better football by any means.

I just think it's way to hard to stop an offense with the current rules and it is quite unfair to defenses. The worst part is that the better and better athletes get, the better offense will get because it's that much harder to stop such elite athletes in space and there really is nothing a defense can do about it.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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I doubt next year that anyone throws for 5000 yards. I wouldn't take this year as the "norm"
I don't know about that. 3 guys did it this year. 3!!!! And two guys didn't break the passing record that stood for nearly 30 years, they both obliterated it.

If Rodgers played the final game he would have had 5,000 yards too. That would have made for 5 guys over 4,900 yards. 5.

In 2005 there were 2 QBs who threw for over 4,000 yards. No one cracked 4,200 yards. The game has changed quite a lot in the last handful of years.
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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any reason to play the games? nope. fads over, pack it up
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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How important is the running game these days? The running backs?

LaDanian Tomlinson during the early-mid 00's, Adrian Peterson from 2007-now, with Ray Rice, Steven Jackson, MJD being among the other best of the past 4 or so years, and Arian Foster the past 2 years.

Zero Super Bowl appearences for any of them. Tomlinson set records too.. didn't get them to any Bowl.

QBs are the key these days, as a result, so are pass rushers. Not cover guys (not you Nnamdi, Champ, or Revis). Pass rushers. They are the ones who distrupt, intimidate, hit QBs. Well if you're Jared Allen and DeMarcus Ware, you're screwed because you have no cover guys.

From Lynn Dickey to Dan Fouts to Dan Marino to Manning, Brees, and Rodgers, and Brady too, I love me some aerial circus.
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Exactly one QB ever threw for 5,000 yards in the first 70-80 years of professional football.

We had 3 do it this year, and would've had 4 accomplish this had Rodgers played in the final game as someone already mentioned.

Yeah, there's something wrong with that.


Receivers aren't afraid to go over the middle anymore. The NFL has made it where defenders practically have to LET receivers catch the football, then politely run up to them...tap them on the shoulder and ask for permission to take them to the ground in as harmless a fashion as possible.

It's all "fantasy football" related. The NFL wants stats, stats, and more stats for their precious quarterbacks.... whom you better not even think about giving a stern look to....

It's a joke.
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