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Old 01-11-2012, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by boknows34 View Post
- McKenzie is trying to revitalize the entire Raider organization. He is going to install an actual scouting department. Up to this point, the Raider scouting department consisted of Al Davis and his stop watch and a few former players who became scouts. For 48 years, Davis was the general manager, head scout, head of pro player personnel, head of everything. There was no room for another voice.
I didn't want to quote the whole thing, but I thought this was a great post, and exactly what Oakland needs. It gives me hope that one day this whole situation will happen in Dallas....maybe.
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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Outstanding move. I was concerned by all of the "Hue is safe" reports, but it turns out that McKenzie is on a mission. I'm in.
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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I dunno how accurate this info is, but I'd wager that it's pretty close.

http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/...kland-raiders/

Just look at the top 12 players in terms of salary cap numbers:

Quote:
Richard Seymour at Defensive Tackle $15,000,000

Carson Palmer at Quarterback $12,500,000

Kamerion Wimbley at Linebacker $11,000,000

Tommy Kelly at Defensive End $8,892,856

Darren McFadden at Running Back $6,716,667

Stanford Routt at Cornerback $6,250,000

Michael Huff at Safety $5,828,750

Aaron Curry at Linebacker $5,700,000

Shane Lechler at Punter $5,650,000

Rolando McClain at Linebacker $5,570,000

John Henderson at Defensive Tackle $4,750,000

Hiram Eugene at Safety $2,500,000
Bloated contracts of mostly uninspiring players.

Seymour plays very well in spurts, but disappears for weeks at a time. There's no way in hell that Oakland will honor his $7.5 million roster bonus + his $7.5 million salary. $15 mill for one season, or cut with 0 cap penalties? This one is easy. He's gone.

Tommy Kelly's contract was a tragic joke. His play elevated with Seymour next to him, but he still erratic. Even more so than Seymour. Good bye. $8.9 million more freed up.

$4,750,000 for John Henderson? A reserve who can't stay healthy? I hope you saved some of that cash, because it's league minimum wherever you land after you get trimmed. Good luck with your future endeavors.

$2.5 million for Hiram freaking Eugene? And some people doubted that Al had gone senile. Holy crap. Peace, dude.

I guarantee, even with some cap penalties involved, these 4 moves put Oakland well under the cap. Add in some Swedish massaging of Aaron Curry, Shane Lechler, Stanford Routt, and Kamerion Wimbley's contracts and you're rolling. Only Lechler actually performs at a high level every week, so if the other 3 get the ax too, oh well. More chances for Reggie to prove his supporters right when they say he's a great player evaluator.

If I'm Darren McFadden, I'm pondering my future as well. Being as dynamic as you are brittle would keep you employed under the old guard. I'm betting those days have passed as well.

Looks like Cooper Carlisle is set to make $3 mill in both 2012 and 2013. I bet he doesn't see it.

Very easy cap situation here.
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Old 01-11-2012, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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With all that cap open, we could look to invest in a few top free agents. Players like Matt Forte, Vincent Jackson, Reggie Wayne, Desean Jackson, Matt Flynn, Carl Nicks, Mario Williams, Robert Mathis, Antonio Garay, Calais Campbell, Cliff Avril, Sione Pouha and Cortland Finnegan are all set to be F/A's this off season.

If we can land a few defensive players, and maybe a WR we could still be decent next season. For now Carson Palmer is our QB according to Reggie McKenzie, but once a coaching staff is brought together that could easily change. Bringing in Matt Flynn to be apart of our new coaching staff(likely going to have a ton of Packer assistants that will be getting promotions) will give us a chance next year with all the talent we already have on offense.

If we go 3-4 on defense, we could look to sign Mario Williams to a huge deal, and add a NT like Garay or Pouha. We have some young talent on our defense, we just need a new scheme and coaches to play them to their stregnths. Lamarr Houston could play some 3-4 DE easily, McClain and Curry at ILB and Wimbley at OLB. Players like Matt Shaughnessy, Desmond Bryant and Jarvis Moss will have to make position changes or get cut, but they all are still pretty young and have potential.

We likely won't try and pull a Eagles/Heat type off season though, I just hope we make some moves since we don't have much of a draft until our compensary pick in the 3rd for the Asmougha signing. New players need to be added to this team, especially on defense, so don't be surprised to see us at least sign 2 or 3 decent players this off season.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:12 AM    (permalink
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With all that cap open, we could look to invest in a few top free agents. Players like Matt Forte, Vincent Jackson, Reggie Wayne, Desean Jackson, Matt Flynn, Carl Nicks, Mario Williams, Robert Mathis, Antonio Garay, Calais Campbell, Cliff Avril, Sione Pouha and Cortland Finnegan are all set to be F/A's this off season.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:15 AM    (permalink
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RM is not gona spend big in FA cause its just not what he is use to Packers have never been big in FA he will look at the second tier FA. Dont expect Seymour to be back unless he takes a nice pay cutt its ethier him or Kelly. I expect to see a lot of player changing.

Oakland will be moving to the 34 so only need Kelly or Seymour. John Henderson most likely cutt. CJ should be cutt. Q.Groves also. I'll give Wimbley one year to show he is worth keeping around in the 34 . Hopefully the put Curry inside with McClain so in FA I expect to see Oakland go after a NT and another pass rushing OLB.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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If we go 3-4 on defense, we could look to sign Mario Williams to a huge deal, and add a NT like Garay or Pouha. We have some young talent on our defense, we just need a new scheme and coaches to play them to their stregnths. Lamarr Houston could play some 3-4 DE easily, McClain and Curry at ILB and Wimbley at OLB. Players like Matt Shaughnessy, Desmond Bryant and Jarvis Moss will have to make position changes or get cut, but they all are still pretty young and have potential.
If we are going with a pipedream signing like Mario Williams--pipedream of pipedreams--I wouldn't think about putting him back in a 3-4 D. Sign him, have him play all along the line in a 4-3, slide Houston in for much of the time (DE on running plays), Shaugnessy at RE and Desmond Bryant as key rotation player at DT (who has probably outplayed both Seymour and Kelly in the 2nd half of this season). Cut two or all of Henderson, Seymour, Kelly and go after a cheapo run-stuffing 4-3 NT--anyone over 340 lbs off the street will do. If you really want to keep Wimbley, rotate him in at RE or stand up rusher on a 5-man line.

That give you depth of Williams, Shaughnessy, Houston, Bryant, Wimbley, Moss, Scott, random 340+ lber or two on the line. Would you be amazing in run defense up the middle? No, but talk about a ridiculously talented d-line.

Curry is serviceable as a WLB, McClain is good cleaning up in the middle on the run but never stick him on a TE. That would mean the Raiders either need to stick with a guy like Huff on the TE every play or go after a SLB who shines in coverage.

But that's neither here nor there because Mario Williams won't be coming to Oakland, nice as it is to think about.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:19 AM    (permalink
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How do people feel about ESPN's QBR? Palmer came out at #11 through the season, just below Stafford, Rivers, Roeth and Vick. This is also just better (by only a smidge) than Manning and Cutler.

I just don't know what to make of this.

On one end of the spectrum, I saw 90% of his plays were actually very positive. He looked like a real QB for much of the game, especially after the first few games when he got to know the system and WRs. On the other hand, his mistakes were just CRIPPLING. He's like the Anti-Tebow because when the Raiders needed their QB to pull a win out of his ass, he threw a pick and gave the game away. When it mattered most, he flat out sucked. And... even sometimes when it didn't matter.

Still, I could be intrigued by seeing Palmer with an offseason under his belt, a little bit of lost weight (no one mentioned he was pudgier than I've ever seen by a good 15 lbs or so). Give him more time with a full stable of WRs and see what happens. But you're also talking to the guy who has rooted for the following QBs (I use the term loosely): Aaron Brooks, Andrew Walter, Josh McCown, Bruce Gradkowski, Daunte Culpepper, Charlie Frye and Jason Campbell. This is very likely a situation of settling for the least ugly girl at the bar.

Damn, that's a lot of turnovers. But QBR still likes Palmer...

You're Reggie McKenzie. What do you do with Carson Palmer (and his $12 million)?
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:27 AM    (permalink
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Nothing you can do. You gotta stick with him for now...we gave up 2 premium picks for him.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:36 AM    (permalink
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I'm still saying Palmer played decent this year for us under the circumstances he had to play with. Young WR's that couldn't stay healthy, missing his best weapon in DMC the whole time, a defense that was non-existent at large streches the entire season and on top of that he came off the couch to play in a NFL game off of 3 days of practice. We can cut Palmer after the 2012 season with little/no cap hit, and we might have a top pick next year to draft our QB of the future.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:59 AM    (permalink
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Holy **** NIP, you typed this thing on your iphone? Very impressive.
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Old 01-12-2012, 02:04 AM    (permalink
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Things have been crazy for me recently so I feel like I'm overflowing with thoughts on this issue. Reading through the presser transcript this morning, this caught my eye

Quote:
Q: Your opinion of Carson Palmer as a quarterback and the trade that brought him here?

Reggie McKenzie: No. 1, as a personnel guy, I love my picks. No. 1, I love more, I love good players. Now, bringing in Carson at the time the Raiders brought him in, to me, as a player, that’s a good move. You have to get players that can help you win games. Now, did the position of the situation present itself favorably for Cincinnati? Absolutely. But you do what you have to do. That’s just the way it is, the cost of doing business. You’re trying to help your team win. You can’t put parameters from a standpoint of knowing the possibility was not as good, on the other hand. But as far as Carson Palmer is concerned, I think he’s a good quarterback. Period.
Fairly PC answer as it relates to Palmer, but McKenzie seems to like him well enough. Certainly didn't give a full commitment to him (as a QB in to lead Oakland in the next half decade) but that's understandable. However, what stands out to me is how McKenzie panned the trade in terms of value. It's very clear McKenzie is in agreement with pretty much everyone--the 2 premium picks were a horrible load to trade for Palmer.
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Old 01-12-2012, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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This is why I thought back then, and still do now, that the Richard Seymour trade was terrible for Oakland. If it doesn't bring you a SB(which it was never going to do) why make it? Sure you got some great play out of him, sure he was a leader for the team, then what? What benefit did he provide to the team in the grand scheme of things?


You could of drafted a guy you liked with that pick, and he'd be just hitting his prime and be a key component of the team for a long time, instead most people are talking about cutting Seymour.


You make trades like that when your a playoff team, have been on the cusp for years, and that move likely puts you over the top. Instead, he helped the Raiders be mediocre instead of below average, thus getting worse picks in the draft the next few years after.


Never saw any point what so ever in making that deal.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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I didn't want to quote the whole thing, but I thought this was a great post, and exactly what Oakland needs. It gives me hope that one day this whole situation will happen in Dallas....maybe.
I feel for you man. Its pretty clear Jerry Jones is crazy and will become the next Al Davis. Hopefully he was paying attention to how the Raiders just completely fell apart, because Al just couldn't stop. JJ needs to wake up now before its too late.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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I don't see how RM doesnt keep Palmer. RM is all about competition so he is not gonna come out and nane him the starter he says he is gonna bring in someone to push him but the FA market for QBs aside from M.Flynn who a lot of Raider fans want but I dont know how u can carry Palmer contract and Flynn contract.

Yeah looking back the Seymour fade doesnt look all.that good. He has.really slowed.down plays good in spurts but not someone who can count on every play. I would be surprised to see.him back
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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Nothing you can do. You gotta stick with him for now...we gave up 2 premium picks for him.
This I don't agree with. What's done is done. Let's say that Matt Flynn is a free agent and McKenzie believes that he can be the Raiders franchise QB. He would come at a cheaper salary (not sure what the cost to cut Palmer would be) and be better for the Raiders than Palmer. What would be the advantage to sticking with Palmer? All you would be doing is compounding a mistake and letting a bad move hold your team back further. I'm not necessarily saying Oakland should give up on Palmer, but it would be foolish to let what they gave up for him be the only reason to keep him.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:38 PM    (permalink
nobodyinparticular
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Originally Posted by raiderz4life View Post
Nothing you can do. You gotta stick with him for now...we gave up 2 premium picks for him.
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This I don't agree with. What's done is done. Let's say that Matt Flynn is a free agent and McKenzie believes that he can be the Raiders franchise QB. He would come at a cheaper salary (not sure what the cost to cut Palmer would be) and be better for the Raiders than Palmer. What would be the advantage to sticking with Palmer? All you would be doing is compounding a mistake and letting a bad move hold your team back further. I'm not necessarily saying Oakland should give up on Palmer, but it would be foolish to let what they gave up for him be the only reason to keep him.
I'm going to agree with jackalope here. McKenzie has already shown the willingness to end the relationship at perhaps the detriment tote short term for the benefit of a full rebuild. We saw that with Hue Jackson's firing.

So then it comes to whether or not Palmer fits the system. It comes down to whether or not McKenzie wants a clean slate with his players on the field as much a the coaching staff. It comes down whether or not McKenzie believes Palmer is a starting QB in this league, or if he's worth the money as a significant upgrade over the next available QB who would likely be much cheaper.

There is certainly a lot that will go into the decision making process on this, but I don't think Mckenzie will have many qualms about the resources wasted on Palmer. He doesn't seem afraid to cut his losses early on for the benefit of a fresh start.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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Holy **** NIP, you typed this thing on your iphone? Very impressive.
Thanks Borat. :-)
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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This I don't agree with. What's done is done. Let's say that Matt Flynn is a free agent and McKenzie believes that he can be the Raiders franchise QB. He would come at a cheaper salary (not sure what the cost to cut Palmer would be) and be better for the Raiders than Palmer. What would be the advantage to sticking with Palmer? All you would be doing is compounding a mistake and letting a bad move hold your team back further. I'm not necessarily saying Oakland should give up on Palmer, but it would be foolish to let what they gave up for him be the only reason to keep him.
Well its not a guarantee that Flynn will come here. Also, NIP asked what to do with Palmer, I'm just saying there isn't a whole lot you can do, cut him and take the hit...possible...only if we get someone to take over not Campbell or Pryor though, or we can trade him for absolutely nothing.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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With all that cap open, we could look to invest in a few top free agents. Players like Matt Forte, Vincent Jackson, Reggie Wayne, Desean Jackson, Matt Flynn, Carl Nicks, Mario Williams, Robert Mathis, Antonio Garay, Calais Campbell, Cliff Avril, Sione Pouha and Cortland Finnegan are all set to be F/A's this off season.
You don't rebuild by dumping your own overpriced players in favor of someone else's.

McKenzie will fill the roster with lower tier FAs and use whatever draft picks he can muster to start building the team in his image.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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You're Reggie McKenzie. What do you do with Carson Palmer (and his $12 million)?
Rumor has it there was a 2nd round pick or two being waved at Mike Brown last year. Stands to reason McKenzie could recoup a 2, maybe more. I expect that he'll be open to the idea. He certainly sounded like he would be.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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Nothing you can do. You gotta stick with him for now...we gave up 2 premium picks for him.
Who's "we"? "We" are McKenzie's team now, and he didn't have anything to do with Palmer's arrival. I full expect he'll entertain offers for Palmer.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Rumor has it there was a 2nd round pick or two being waved at Mike Brown last year. Stands to reason McKenzie could recoup a 2, maybe more. I expect that he'll be open to the idea. He certainly sounded like he would be.
No...Oakland is not getting a 2nd rounder for Palmer...maybe a 3rd..if we're lucky.
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Old 01-12-2012, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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I didn't want to quote the whole thing, but I thought this was a great post, and exactly what Oakland needs. It gives me hope that one day this whole situation will happen in Dallas....maybe.
You arent hoping Jerry Jones dies are you?
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Old 01-12-2012, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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You arent hoping Jerry Jones dies are you?
He has relinquished GM control before while not dying. Chances of it happening are always slim, but one can always hope Jerry brings in a football minded GM from a winning organization, hands him the keys and lets him do his job.
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