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Old 01-09-2012, 08:14 PM    (permalink
eltwentyone
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Default Matt Ryan or Jake Long

I made a thread a long time ago, My hate on matt Ryan longg agoo

Matt Ryan is going to be an average to borderline pro bowler, he cant take over games, he cant throw a good deep ball, Julio would be more dominant, 0-3 in the playoffs, not even athletic 4th and goal, lol DREW BREES GOAT, He needs

Now you got Jake Long a perennial pro bowler, your set for the next 10 years, but not big of an impact on the total team, a qb can adversely affect your record while a LT cant

SO now who do you choose,

I mma go for Long
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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I think a lot less of Matt Ryan than most people, but he's still easily the answer. You need a QB in this league if you're going to do anything. A top 12 QB>a top 5 LT
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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Even an above average quarterback is much more valuable than an all-pro left tackle.
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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I think this is a good question at this point. If Jake Long didn't just tear his biceps, I'd probably take him if I didn't have a QB or LT and knew what I was getting with both. I say that because I don't know about the recovery time with that injury so I'm gonna assume both are healthy.


Both positions are of very high importance, I'd rather take the elite player out of the bunch. There's an easier chance you can draft a Matt Ryan these days then a Jake Long IMO.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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Ryan over Long but there was no wrong answer to the "Matt Ryan, Jake Long, or Chris Long?" question.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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I know its not black and white, but which team is better: Atlanta or Miami?
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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A top 12 QB>a top 5 LT
Bingo (10)
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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I know its not black and white, but which team is better: Atlanta or Miami?
They sure did start looking pretty good with Matt Moore and Jake Long though. I'd take that over Matt Ryan & Sam Baker to start my team.
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:02 AM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan. A very good quarterback gives you a better chance to win games than an All-Pro left tackle.
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:03 AM    (permalink
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A top 12 QB>a top 5 LT
yeah, for real, end thread.
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan, wouldnt think twice about it...

...and I dont think highly of him.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:22 AM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan no question and I'm also not a big fan. He has his limitations but he could be a SB winning QB. Atlanta is just not as good as they thought they were, adding Julio was an important move because they needed that explosiveness, but giving up all those picks really hurt.

They need a more consistent and explosive running game, Turner can be good if he gets his carries, but in the modern NFL its too hard to give a guy 25 carries up the gut when the other team is hitting big plays. They need a more versatile guy who can catch it out of the backfield and contribute in other ways. Ryan will never be an excellent deep thrower so they have to work around that.

And don't be foolish people, you'd really take Moore/Long over Ryan/Baker? This is not the first time a borderline starting QB has looked good to finish a season after they were basically playing with no risk. Moore did it already once in his career when he finished a season super hot with Carolina.

Miami would be stupid to not draft a QB, every consistent franchise has a great one. They've been trying to play with guys like Matt Moore ever since Marino retired.
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:26 AM    (permalink
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I guess I would take Ryan but I don't think they'd be a significantly better team with him instead of Long. They'd still be average to below average.
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:53 AM    (permalink
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I guess it becomes a question of what I have/get at the other position for who I'd take.

If I have nothing at either position though, you take the QB. 0-3 sure beats 0-0 in the playoffs and if you keep getting there eventually you might get hot(Manning, Brees, Rodgers had to lose before winning).

Ryan is a good enough prospect still to win a SB, maybe not carry a team to a SB, but you can certainly win with him and I think Atlanta are very well placed going forward(outside of having the Saints in their division and all).

I must add, I think that OT has become one of the least important positions on offense.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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I think if you gave Ryan a top 5 D he'd be a whole heck of a lot better in most peoples eyes. He carries that team into the playoffs every year and I'd be elated to have Ryan as a Skin and I would give up 2 1sts and a 2nd for him tomorrow.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:15 AM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan > Jake Long for a team's success.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:28 AM    (permalink
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I don't know if anyone is going to get what I'm going to say because I'm struggling to put it into words but you don't replace a top 10 QB for better or worse. I'm sure there are cases where it isn't true but like if you QB is in the top 10 it is near impossible for the FO to replace him. But if you have a decent QB like the 20th best in the league and the best LT, you can replace your QB. This probably sounds really stupid and I'm going to leave it up so maybe someone can understand what I'm trying to say. Hopefully I'll think of a better way to explain it.

To be clear I'd take Matt Ryan but in a hypothetical scenary with just like a rated QB I'd wonder what is best for the long term of your franchise.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:48 AM    (permalink
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Even an above average quarterback is much more valuable than an all-pro left tackle.
This. People blame David Carr's OL for him being so bad now, but I blame David Carr's pocket presence.

Peyton Manning gets away with having a below average line because he has amazing pocket presence. Tom Brady's elite pocket presence gets under-rated because he's behind a very good OL.

But you won't see many QBs who have elite OLs in front of them that somehow magically learn to read defenses. If you can't, you just can't.

edit: the only debate here is whether the Falcons could have suckered someone to trade away a franchise for them for that pick instead of making it on an average QB.

edit2: How many 4-5 win seasons is Joe Thomas going to have to suffer through before they finally make the playoffs? He's clearly the best OT of his generation and he isn't even on an average team. Matt Ryan is an average QB on an average team.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:51 AM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:55 AM    (permalink
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I would take Jake Long everyday of the week. I do not think Matt Ryan has a very high ceiling. He proves over and over again that the team is carried by Michael Turner. The Falcons should of beat the Giants, but Ryan has screwed that up. Give me Jake Long, a great center, and another QB. What are the alternative QB and left tackle options for picking either one of those two?
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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I would take Jake Long everyday of the week. I do not think Matt Ryan has a very high ceiling. He proves over and over again that the team is carried by Michael Turner. The Falcons should of beat the Giants, but Ryan has screwed that up. Give me Jake Long, a great center, and another QB. What are the alternative QB and left tackle options for picking either one of those two?
Michael Turner is soft. This isn't to take anything from Joe Thomas and Jake Long, but look at their teams' success. A above-average QB is more valuable than an elite tackle.
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:31 AM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan, there is no debate here. He's on the doorstep to being an elite QB. Notice the performance of the Falcons offense with Ryan calling plays, vs when the OC Mike Mularkey was calling plays. Matt Ryan is Peyton 2.0 and he's only 4 years in. To be in playoff games 3/4 years is pretty dang good, the wins in the playoffs don't come easy, and Matt Ryan was not to fault for the Arizona or the New York losses. He could be blamed for the Green Bay loss however.

Making more hate threads isn't going to get you anywhere, and hating Matt Ryan just makes you look foolish.
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:35 AM    (permalink
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I would like to clarify that most Falcons fans don't think Matt Ryan is actually Peyton 2.0. I do think he is much better than most people here give him credit for though. I've been very outspoken about how I believe he is a top 10 QB in the NFL. I believe this offseason with Julio and hopefully a new OC will finally push him to, in most people's minds, an elite QB. Would not be surprised at all to see him with 4500 yards, 30-35 TDs, and 10 INTs next season.
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:43 AM    (permalink
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I would like to clarify that most Falcons fans don't think Matt Ryan is actually Peyton 2.0. I do think he is much better than most people here give him credit for though. I've been very outspoken about how I believe he is a top 10 QB in the NFL. I believe this offseason with Julio and hopefully a new OC will finally push him to, in most people's minds, an elite QB. Would not be surprised at all to see him with 4500 yards, 30-35 TDs, and 10 INTs next season.
You can't speak for 'most' you might be able to speak for 'most' on this board but you cannot speak to 'most'.

There are more similarities between Peyton and Matt than I care to list. Matt isn't in Peyton's realm right now statistically, or with consistency or anything like that, no one's saying he is. Just wanted to point that out.
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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I'm torn on Matt Ryan. I don't know how I feel about him. There are qualities I like, he has good pocket presence, he's great btw the snaps, reading defenses, making protection adjustments, audibles, etc.

But there are also some qualities that make me dislike him. He has very questionable arm strength, inconsistent accuracy, and he's just gotta win a playoff game.

It's one thing if he had a great game vs the Giants and he came up short, but he was downright awful. Not looking downfield, making inaccurate throws, showing his lack of arm strength, getting outchecked by Boley at the LOS, he just had a bad game all over.

The arm strength issue is what it is, that's not going to magically disappear, but he's gotta win a playoff game. That's really hurting him in my eyes. The playoffs are when you really show what you are as a player, and he's just not getting it done.
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