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Old 03-20-2012, 10:56 PM    (permalink
DeepThreat
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What??? Do you live in KC??? I do and have yet to hear anything on this. Why would we get rid of the 2 3-4 DE's ranked #1 and #2 in tackles?
I thought this was absolutely hilarious. Especially since vidae does live in KC. Second, you act like tackles mean anything as far as play goes.

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People dont pay attention to the fact that Dorsey has overachieved in his current role as he was only suppose to be a 3 tech in a 4-3. Tyson Jackson had a solid year and although he will never live up to his 3rd pick hype (as no 3-4 DE will ever) but our DE rotation is set with Dorsey, Jackson, Bailey, etc....
Who cares if he overachieved? What matters is how productive he is in a 3-4 scheme. The fact that he might be better in a 4-3 is completely irrelevant, unless you are advocating trading him, in which case I would agree. Dorsey is also on the final year of his contract.

Pretty sure Richard Seymour would have lived up to the No. 3 pick, and Tyson Jackson isn't exactly solid. He is maybe average.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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I thought this was absolutely hilarious. Especially since vidae does live in KC. Second, you act like tackles mean anything as far as play goes.



Who cares if he overachieved? What matters is how productive he is in a 3-4 scheme. The fact that he might be better in a 4-3 is completely irrelevant, unless you are advocating trading him, in which case I would agree. Dorsey is also on the final year of his contract.

Pretty sure Richard Seymour would have lived up to the No. 3 pick, and Tyson Jackson isn't exactly solid. He is maybe average.
Tackles mean nothing as far as play? Isn't the objective of the defense to tackle the players on offense? I'm not seeing your logic behind that...compared to other 3-4 DE's they led so that means they are def stopping plays. 3-4 DE job is to technically "block" the OL from getting to the LBs so they can run around and make "plays".

By the way, the Chiefs defense was pretty good...

Also, contract year, oh well...cant worry about that right now. We need to win now and he def wont get the money he got as a rookie cause he's not worth it.

Then you say that Richard Seymour would be worth the 3rd pick in the NFL draft and yes you're right but that's 1 out of how many 3-4 DEs? That's like picking a kicker in the 1st rd cause Janikowski turned out pretty good.

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Old 03-21-2012, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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or like picking players from Miss Valley State because Jerry Rice came from there and became the greatest player of all time.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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or like picking players from Miss Valley State because Jerry Rice came from there and became the greatest player of all time.
and Richard Seymour was drafted when the Patriots were in a 4-3. 1st 2 years of his career they ran a 4-3...
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:44 PM    (permalink
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and Richard Seymour was drafted when the Patriots were in a 4-3. 1st 2 years of his career they ran a 4-3...
That's not ... exactly true. I'm guessing you are going off the wikipedia comment? What they really ran that year, off the top (been several years sinc eI thought about it) was a heavy hybrid scheme that year, but at it's very root, it was still often based upon 3-4 principles. One of the edge guys would be typically in a 3 point to set the edge/rush, giving "legitimacy" to the 4-3 idea, but do you remember the Super Bowl that year? Their outside backers were often smashing down on Faulk in the 2 point whenever they could (interestingly enough, on profootballreference, Seymour is listed as a DE that year).
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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Tackles mean nothing as far as play? Isn't the objective of the defense to tackle the players on offense? I'm not seeing your logic behind that...compared to other 3-4 DE's they led so that means they are def stopping plays. 3-4 DE job is to technically "block" the OL from getting to the LBs so they can run around and make "plays".
Hey you answered your own question. Judge the defensive ends by how well they took up blocks and made plays, not how many tackles they made. If tackles were all that mattered, Andra Davis would have been the NFL's best linebacker for several years.

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By the way, the Chiefs defense was pretty good...
No way Tamba Halli, Derrick Johnson, Justin Houston, Brandon Flowers and Brandon Carr had anything to do with that, is there? The defense was good, but the team's defensive ends were not great at all.

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Also, contract year, oh well...cant worry about that right now. We need to win now and he def wont get the money he got as a rookie cause he's not worth it.
You absolutely can worry about that now. Otherwise, a year from now, you have no defensive ends and other needs to boot. A good team drafts with the future in mind. Also, Brockers would contribute and play immediately. There's this amazing thing called "a rotation".

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Then you say that Richard Seymour would be worth the 3rd pick in the NFL draft and yes you're right but that's 1 out of how many 3-4 DEs? That's like picking a kicker in the 1st rd cause Janikowski turned out pretty good.
At what point did I say Richard Seymour's success meant you should draft a 5-tech at No. 3? You said no 5-tech ever was worth the pick, and I pointed out one who was. There was nothing more to it than that.

I would draft Brockers at No. 11 because he fits a need and is going to be a stud. Not because Richard Seymour was worth the pick (seriously have no idea where the hell you got that from).
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:39 AM    (permalink
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I would personally take Brockers over Poe regardless of who the Chiefs already had. Brockers has that potential that everyone loves Poe for, but he has also shown he can play in the SEC. However, there are other options I would like at 11 over both of these guys.

I also think drafting defensive linemen with top ten picks is worth it. A quality d-line can make a suspect back 7 look much better (ask the Giants), while a poor d-line drags everyone down to their level.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:31 AM    (permalink
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Brockers has that potential that everyone loves Poe for, but he has also shown he can play in the SEC. .
it's ironic how everyone sites Poe's lack of production but he actually has more than double the career sacks of Brockers.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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it's ironic how everyone sites Poe's lack of production but he actually has more than double the career sacks of Brockers.
That's not saying much. Poe played far more snaps in college and against much worse competition.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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Brockers gets pressure when he rushes and penetrates the LOS. Poe struggles to do that in C-USA.
You can't do a one to one comparison between Brockers/Poe because of level of competition.

Let's be honest, competition wise, it's as if Poe is coming straight out of junior college.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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That's not saying much. Poe played far more snaps in college and against much worse competition.
Brockers also played with a far, far superior cast around him, so coaches could not focus in on him. Poe was the only player worth mentioning on his defense.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Brockers gets pressure when he rushes and penetrates the LOS. Poe struggles to do that in C-USA.
You can't do a one to one comparison between Brockers/Poe because of level of competition.

Let's be honest, competition wise, it's as if Poe is coming straight out of junior college.
That's not being honest. Conference USA is still FBS football.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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That's not saying much. Poe played far more snaps in college and against much worse competition.
Big advantage Poe there. Possibly a huge advantage.

Starting to see Brockers as more of a 4-3 DT with upside. Personally would take Fletcher Cox and Poe over him for a 3-4.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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Big advantage Poe there. Possibly a huge advantage.

Starting to see Brockers as more of a 4-3 DT with upside. Personally would take Fletcher Cox and Poe over him for a 3-4.
I disagree, Brockers best position has to be a 5-tech in the 3-4, while Cox looks to be a potential stud at UT in a 4-3. Poe's best fit would be in a 3-4 scheme where he'd see time at NT and DE.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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I see Brockers as a two-gap 3-4 defensive end; very similar player to Marcus Spears. Fletcher Cox definitely seems like a 4-3 under tackle. Poe could project to UT or NT in the 4-3 or NT or DE in the 3-4; however the fact that we still have no idea where he fits into the league is a serious concern. Personally I see him as a Shaun Rogers type of player if he reaches his ceiling.
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Old 03-22-2012, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Here's a question: Cox is certainly one of the premier pass rushing UT's in this class, but how will he fare against NFL guards in run support? For a team with sufficient pass rush who is looking to seriously upgrade run support, would he be any better value than a round 2 DT? This is assuming Still is off the board. I can't trust Poe.
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Old 03-22-2012, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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I disagree, Brockers best position has to be a 5-tech in the 3-4, while Cox looks to be a potential stud at UT in a 4-3. Poe's best fit would be in a 3-4 scheme where he'd see time at NT and DE.
Disagree on Brockers...could make it in a 3-4 with good coaching, but don't really see him as a Day 1 guy there...A creative 3-4 coach could easily find a way to fit Cox as a DE...guys like Pryce, Shaun Ellis, and Louis Castillo (for a little) thrived as 3-4 DEs and the only one with Cox's size there is Castillo (who was shorter and on the muscle juice)...Guy's used to the double team...agreed on Poe, and I'd be pretty confident drafting him into a 3-4.
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Old 03-22-2012, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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it's ironic how everyone sites Poe's lack of production but he actually has more than double the career sacks of Brockers.
Brockers didn't play a lot in passing situations. Wasn't a slight to Brockers, LSU just ran a 3-2-6 "Mustang Package" a lot on third downs and against spread teams. The two ends were usually Montgomery and Mingo, with either Lavar Edwards/Bennie Logan/Anthony Johnson usually in the middle.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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Hey you answered your own question. Judge the defensive ends by how well they took up blocks and made plays, not how many tackles they made. If tackles were all that mattered, Andra Davis would have been the NFL's best linebacker for several years.



No way Tamba Halli, Derrick Johnson, Justin Houston, Brandon Flowers and Brandon Carr had anything to do with that, is there? The defense was good, but the team's defensive ends were not great at all.



You absolutely can worry about that now. Otherwise, a year from now, you have no defensive ends and other needs to boot. A good team drafts with the future in mind. Also, Brockers would contribute and play immediately. There's this amazing thing called "a rotation".



At what point did I say Richard Seymour's success meant you should draft a 5-tech at No. 3? You said no 5-tech ever was worth the pick, and I pointed out one who was. There was nothing more to it than that.

I would draft Brockers at No. 11 because he fits a need and is going to be a stud. Not because Richard Seymour was worth the pick (seriously have no idea where the hell you got that from).
So we went from talking about DE tackle count to LB tackle count who should be the player on every defense that has the most tackles right?

And you're saying Brockers is going to be a stud based on one year of productivity? I wouldn't spend an 11th pick on a DE that's going to fit a rotation when we also have Allen Bailey who is learning how to truly play football.

With the 11th pick, Chiefs should take Poe who is also questionable but he measure very well and has at least played more than one season at a high level of individual play.

If Trent's still there, take Richardson, cut Hillis. No need for a tackle since we got Winston so maybe take DeCastro (who is the best guard I've seen come out in a very long time)...maybe even take the best ILB like Kuechly or Hightower.

Brockers to me should stay in the system he did well in last season which is the 4-3. If Carolina wants him at 10, then that would be a much better fit...

Every time someone sees a DT or DE that's 6'6", 300 plus pounds, they automatically think "Richard Seymour" and he's one of the very few exceptions to the STUD 5 tech "rule".
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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RT @RookieDraft: The Kansas City #Chiefs will be having dinner w/ DT Michael Brockers, #LSU tonight.Matt Miller ‏ @nfldraftscout Reply Retweet Favorite Open

Chiefs won't let him past 11. He's gonna play NT for us too.

Major upside, quick burst, commanded double teams 90% of the time in college, and can easily get up to 330+ lbs.

I think we take him. Nobody has commanded attention in the middle of the defense in our 3-4 system. Brockers would be a nice fit.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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RT @RookieDraft: The Kansas City #Chiefs will be having dinner w/ DT Michael Brockers, #LSU tonight.Matt Miller ‏ @nfldraftscout Reply Retweet Favorite Open

Chiefs won't let him past 11. He's gonna play NT for us too.

Major upside, quick burst, commanded double teams 90% of the time in college, and can easily get up to 330+ lbs.

I think we take him. Nobody has commanded attention in the middle of the defense in our 3-4 system. Brockers would be a nice fit.
Pioli and his damn obsession with finding the next great SEC DL for a 3-4. F**k!!!
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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Did Brockers run today at LSU pro day?
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Old 03-23-2012, 05:26 AM    (permalink
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Did Brockers run today at LSU pro day?
From NFL.com:

"Michael Brockers, DT (6-5 316) Brockers measured in six pounds lighter than combine. He had 5.26 and 5.18 40-yard dashes, a 30-inch vertical jump, 8-2 broad jump, 4.78 short shuttle, 7.48 cone, and 21 strength lifts. He moves really well for a defensive tackle and displayed his agility in the position drills."
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:34 AM    (permalink
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it's ironic how everyone sites Poe's lack of production but he actually has more than double the career sacks of Brockers.
I've tried to stay from statistics because for the most part they can be very misleading. Granted, I've not seen much of Poe's tape, but what I have seen is a guy who doesn't seem to command a lot of attention from his opponents and he isn't very disruptive. With his measurable, and playing in CUSA, we should be seeing him being double and triple teamed. I haven't seen that.

On the other hand, when you watch Brockers play you see a guy who commands two blockers frequently. He is a bull to move. He's disruptive, and while statistics don't show production, he was in the backfield a lot, playing against SEC offensive lines. Brockers should've returned to school and put himself in a position to go top 5 next year, because he is undeniably raw.

I don't understand the Brockers as a nose talk. He looks very much like a 34 end or 43 tackle to me.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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RT @RookieDraft: The Kansas City #Chiefs will be having dinner w/ DT Michael Brockers, #LSU tonight.Matt Miller ‏ @nfldraftscout Reply Retweet Favorite Open

Chiefs won't let him past 11. He's gonna play NT for us too.

Major upside, quick burst, commanded double teams 90% of the time in college, and can easily get up to 330+ lbs.

I think we take him. Nobody has commanded attention in the middle of the defense in our 3-4 system. Brockers would be a nice fit.
I'm glad the Chiefs are considering him. I'd strongly consider him too at 11. But I see him as a 5-tech more than I do a zero-tech.
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