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Old 02-03-2012, 01:57 PM    (permalink
brat316
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that is cause all the good athletic OT want to play TE or are moved to the defensive side. Also the spread makes them good pass blockers, but don't get as much work in the run game.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
I'd put Kalil behind Thomas but not sure if i'd have him rated lower than Long, who has trouble with quick guys on occasion.

Some of the knocks i hear about Kalil giving less than 100% i havent seen and i've watched about 90% of his games over two years.
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Originally Posted by DraftSavant View Post
In almost every game I watch, he'll make his initial pop on his man in a run play and then go to the second level and just watch the runner.

I know BOE has seen this many times as well. It drives me crazy.
******* page trapz.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't disagree with this, either.

I've said it quite often: there are no Walter Joneses, or Bosellis, or Ogdens anymore. We witnessed the golden era of left tackles. Hope you all enjoyed it, because it's unlikely we ever see that many elite HoF caliber players all physical freaks to boot) at one position as we did in the late 90s/early 2000s.

I mean, hell, a guy like Tarik Glenn (who was seen as a very good, but not quite elite tackle in that era) could arguably be better than anyone in the NFL right now.
There definitely aren't any of those guys, but remember the oldest of the current bunch of elite LTs is 28. For an OL this is pretty much early prime...or I just made that up...Either way, I think very good to great days are ahead for all of these guys.

That said, it'll be hard for any generation to stack with the last one. Pace...Ogden...Jones...Boselli...the disturbingly underrated Willie Roaf (who I might take over anyone here not named Ogden, even Pace)...
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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He's no Orlando Pace, but Duane Brown is really, really ******* good now. That Texans o-line as a whole is really, really ******* good now. Somewhere David Carr would be pissed if his brain weren't total mush.
Ah there's someone more underrated than D'Brick...both of the Texans T's are awesome...compared to them I don't think you can call any OL underrated.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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****, Lincoln Kennedy was really good, too. And then you had some really, really good RTs, too, in Leon Searcy, Willie Anderson, Matt Lepsis, etc.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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****, Lincoln Kennedy was really good, too. And then you had some really, really good RTs, too, in Leon Searcy, Willie Anderson, Matt Lepsis, etc.
The Eagles bookend T duo...Completely forgot about Kennedy...Willie Anderson too...that guy was pretty nasty.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Kyle Turley had his moments of awesome too. Throwing people, helmets...threatening to kill Mike Martz.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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it should also be noted Kalil started 2 years at USC. he redshirted in 2008. he backed up Tyron at RT in 2009. He started 10 and 11. Which is fine. but some of these other prospects were 40+ game starters. Jake Long started as a Redshirt Freshman. Russell Okung started as a true freshman at Oregon State. unlike running back, the more starts an OL has the better prospect he becomes.

Obviously it's harder to start at USC than Oregon State but there is still a difference in experience, if we are comparing Kalil to other top OT from years past.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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2008: < Jake Long
2007: = Joe Thomas
2006: < D'Brickshaw Ferguson
Joe Thomas was better than both of those.
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Eugene Monroe >>> Jason Smith.
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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it should also be noted Kalil started 2 years at USC. he redshirted in 2008. he backed up Tyron at RT in 2009. He started 10 and 11. Which is fine. but some of these other prospects were 40+ game starters. Jake Long started as a Redshirt Freshman. Russell Okung started as a true freshman at Oregon State. unlike running back, the more starts an OL has the better prospect he becomes.

Obviously it's harder to start at USC than Oregon State but there is still a difference in experience, if we are comparing Kalil to other top OT from years past.
Do you mean Oklahoma State?
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Kalil is as good as any of the past offensive tackle prospects except maybe Okung and Jason Smith. I'd take Tyron Smith over him; Smith is considerably more athletic.
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Old 02-03-2012, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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Do you mean Oklahoma State?
yeh sorry okla state not oregon st.
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Old 02-03-2012, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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yeh sorry okla state not oregon st.
They're both OSU and they're both orange. It's all good.
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Old 02-03-2012, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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****, Lincoln Kennedy was really good, too. And then you had some really, really good RTs, too, in Leon Searcy, Willie Anderson, Matt Lepsis, etc.
You didn't mention Willie Roaf, a HoF'er very soon.
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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I have Kalil right behind Long and Thomas, and if he were to stay another year at USC I wouldn't have been surprised to see him maybe trade out better than them. Kalil will be a top 3 pick, and should play much better than some of the recent high OTs.
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't disagree with this, either.

I've said it quite often: there are no Walter Joneses, or Bosellis, or Ogdens anymore. We witnessed the golden era of left tackles. Hope you all enjoyed it, because it's unlikely we ever see that many elite HoF caliber players all physical freaks to boot) at one position as we did in the late 90s/early 2000s.

I mean, hell, a guy like Tarik Glenn (who was seen as a very good, but not quite elite tackle in that era) could arguably be better than anyone in the NFL right now.
Could guys like DJ Fluker and Seantrel Henderson reach that level?

As for Kalil, I think he's going to be like Jordan Gross at the next level. Not overly dominant, but pretty good.
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Old 02-04-2012, 07:54 AM    (permalink
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Kalil has a skill set and a body type to be an All Star at the next level. He clearly has top 5 talent which puts him in a class with the top LT's in pro football.

However, he hasn't built up his body just yet and has a long way to go before you can compare him to anybody in the NFL. He is more like D'Brick than anybody else since he played college ball at 295 and will need to add 10-20lbs. to be effective at the next level. Like D'Brick, he must not only gain the weight but turn it into muscle and learn how to use it in pro football. Until we see the finished produce, there is no way to tell how good he can be.

Joe Thomas is the best LT in the league and Jake Long is just behind him. Kalil might get to their category but he has a long road to that level.
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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As a prospect, I'd also have Kalil rated just below Jake Long and Joe Thomas and at about the same level as D'Brickashaw Ferguson.
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Old 02-04-2012, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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it should also be noted Kalil started 2 years at USC. he redshirted in 2008. he backed up Tyron at RT in 2009. He started 10 and 11. Which is fine. but some of these other prospects were 40+ game starters. Jake Long started as a Redshirt Freshman. Russell Okung started as a true freshman at Oregon State. unlike running back, the more starts an OL has the better prospect he becomes.

Obviously it's harder to start at USC than Oregon State but there is still a difference in experience, if we are comparing Kalil to other top OT from years past.
Not sure the # of starts stat means as much for an offensive tackle as it does for a QB, in fact i know it doesnt. And i would add when you're in that USC system you're facing tough competition on a daily basis. One year wonder i might worry but not 24 or 25 games.

On a sidenote i'm still high on my guy Okung. He needs to somehow stay healthy and play with a little more discipline but he can be a good one.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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Very interesting look at things, great idea to compare top prospects from the past at their position to now, this is how I would see things going as far back as 2000

2011: > Tyronn Smith
2010: > Russell Okung
2009: > Jason Smith
2008: < Jake Long
2007: < Joe Thomas
2006: = D'Brickshaw Ferguson
2005: > Jammal Brown
2004: < Robert Gallery
2003: > Jordan Gross
2002: < Bryant McKinnie
2001: < Leonard Davis
2000: < Chris Samuels


So compared to recent years Matt Kalil I would say is better than some of those guys. But back in the day, I would take a lot of those offensive tackles coming out of college over Kalil just based on size and run blocking ability.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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I'd take Tyron Smith over Kalil every time. Not even close the amount of upside. Not just because i'm a Cowboys fan, but Tyron Smith has the potential to be one of the best in the game. He is probably the most athletic and has freakishly long arms. If he adds some more bulk (which he has the frame to do) and he gets coached and developed the right way, he should be a perennial all-pro.

It isn't even all potential/upside with Tyron anymore either, he played pretty damn good this year. He stonewalled Jason Babin, one of the only bright spots when the Cowboys played the Eagles. He was a deserving pro-bowl alternate.

Last edited by CDCB14 : 02-04-2012 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:01 PM    (permalink
Flaming Mo
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This is false. He is finally rated appropriately.
Interesting discussion actually if D'Brick is over or underrated. Last season he had a down year by his standards and I think he only reached the Pro Bowl on reputation. With that said though, it is not easy to protect an erratic and very inconsistent QB in Mark Sanchez in a horribly run Jets offense which had a very bad mix of talents anywhere you looked. On the top of his game and in recent years he has been arguably the best pure pass blocking OT in the game and while he is not a mauler in the run game, over the last couple of years he had developed tremendously in that regard. He is very good in open space and the Jets also ran behind him more and more as he started to fill out his body.

In the end I think Brick is a perennial pro bowl tackle who has his strength in pass blocking who on a good day can compare to anyone in this league. Too bad he is a bit inconsistent.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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I'd take Tyron Smith over Kalil every time. Not even close the amount of upside. Not just because i'm a Cowboys fan, but Tyron Smith has the potential to be one of the best in the game. He is probably the most athletic and has freakishly long arms. If he adds some more bulk (which he has the frame to do) and he gets coached and developed the right way, he should be a perennial all-pro.

It isn't even all potential/upside with Tyron anymore either, he played pretty damn good this year. He stonewalled Jason Babin, one of the only bright spots when the Cowboys played the Eagles. He was a deserving pro-bowl alternate.
You do know Kalil was the reason why Tyron Smith is stuck at RT. No doubt Kalil is the better prospect and has better potential. Kalil is a elite prospect, lock top 3 pick while Smith was a top 15 prospect in an average draft last year.
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Old 02-04-2012, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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You do know Kalil was the reason why Tyron Smith is stuck at RT. No doubt Kalil is the better prospect and has better potential. Kalil is a elite prospect, lock top 3 pick while Smith was a top 15 prospect in an average draft last year.
Kalil was also Tyron's backup at RT during their Freshman year. I think people read too much into "Kalil was the reason Tyron played RT", Tyron was already at RT for a year by the time Kalil was ready to crack the starting line up. If you think Kalil is good enough to handle LT why bother moving Tyron?

And as far as potential, Tyron was 19 years old the last time he suited up for USC while Kalil came into this season at 22. Tyron's upside at his age with that athleticism was pretty rare.

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