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Old 02-05-2012, 10:03 PM    (permalink
mellojello
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Default Is Eli Manning an Elite QB?

The guy has 2 SB's now, so does he get into the "elite" club?
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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I don't think it's really a debate at this point. The better question is does he make the HOF. I say yes.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...+manning+elite
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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He won't be elite until he beats a good secondary in the Super Bowl.

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Old 02-05-2012, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Guy is money in the 4th quarter and now has 2 SB's. Yes.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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He might be as good as anyone in the league right now. I think Eli compares favorably to Rodgers, Brees and Brady.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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I feel about Eli the way i felt about Roethlisberger after the Cardinals superbowl.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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AHH, come on. Is this really a question? How many guys have multiple SB wins. He is elite. This is silly. He also has dumb face. But, yes, he is elite. There is no argument against him.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
I feel about Eli the way i felt about Roethlisberger after the Cardinals superbowl.

In the sense that's he's really good but people are still not going to be satisfied with that and massively overrate him?
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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AHH, come on. Is this really a question? How many guys have multiple SB wins. He is elite. This is silly. He also has dumb face. But, yes, he is elite. There is no argument against him.
Eli Manning = Terrell Davis. Elite? Sure. Canton? Joke.

Both were great players. I'd go so far as saying TD was actually more elite for the 4 seasons he ruled the nfl.

In contrast, eli manning has only had 4 seasons of 80+ QBR football. not particularly canton worthy. Matt Schaub has 5.

TD should NOT be in canton, despite 2 rings and 2 MVP esque superbowl performances. Neither should Eli! His only argument over TD is that he is a QB, and not a RB. Should not be an automatic bid, though.

I think superbowl wins certainly count for something, but they shouldn't automatically qualify a great but not hall of fame quality player. seriously.

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Old 02-05-2012, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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Eli Manning is elite, yes. There is no question now. Hell, there wasn't really a question after the season he had, but the playoffs solidified it.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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Eli Manning = Terrell Davis. Elite? Sure. Canton? Joke.

Both were great players. I'd go so far as saying TD was actually more elite for the 4 seasons he ruled the nfl.

In contrast, eli manning has only had 4 seasons of 80+ QBR football. not particularly canton worthy. Matt Schaub has 5.

TD should NOT be in canton, despite 2 rings and 2 MVP esque superbowl performances. Neither should Eli! His only argument over TD is that he is a QB, and not a RB. Should not be an automatic bid, though.

I think superbowl wins certainly count for something, but they shouldn't automatically qualify a great but not hall of fame quality player. seriously.
That **** cray.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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The Giants won two SBs with Elijah as their starting QB they had no business winning.

Forget the SB. Look at the wins the Giants had in the playoffs just to get to the show.

All Eli needs is time in, maybe five more years added to his career.
Otherwise he's a lock.
Dude is clutch, and in games that mean the most, he's been better than Aaron Rodgers AND Tom Brady (twice).
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
Eli Manning = Terrell Davis. Elite? Sure. Canton? Joke.

Both were great players. I'd go so far as saying TD was actually more elite for the 4 seasons he ruled the nfl.

In contrast, eli manning has only had 4 seasons of 80+ QBR football. not particularly canton worthy. Matt Schaub has 5.

TD should NOT be in canton, despite 2 rings and 2 MVP esque superbowl performances. Neither should Eli! His only argument over TD is that he is a QB, and not a RB. Should not be an automatic bid, though.

I think superbowl wins certainly count for something, but they shouldn't automatically qualify a great but not hall of fame quality player. seriously.
He's on his way to Canton. The guy's career is far from over. If he continues to play this way, and there's no reason to believe he won't considering he's improved every year he's been in the league, I don't see how he won't make it to Canton as long as he continues to play at the same level for the rest of his career.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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Eli Manning is elite, yes. There is no question now. Hell, there wasn't really a question after the season he had, but the playoffs solidified it.
If elite means tier 1, then he's not elite

1. Brady- 3 rings, 105 rating in 2011-2012 96.4 career QBR, 6 seasons with 90+ QBR
2. Peyton- 1 ring, 91.9 rating in his last full season played, 94.9 career QBR, 10 seasons with 90+ QBR
3. Rodgers- 122.4 rating in 2011-2012, 1 ring in 2011, 104.1 career QBR, 4 seasons with 90+ QBR, 2012 MVP
4. Brees- 110.0 rating in 2011-2012, 1 ring in 2010- 94.0 career QBR, 5 seasons with 90+ QBR, 2012 OPOY

Now Eli Manning:

2 rings, 92 rating this year, career 82.9 QB rating, 2 seasons with 90+ QBR

Literally the only thing that has him in the discussion is his 2 great seasons? Elite? Man, I have a really hard time admitting that one. He's great. But he isn't tier 1. He's just not.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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He's on his way to Canton. The guy's career is far from over. If he continues to play this way, and there's no reason to believe he won't considering he's improved every year he's been in the league, I don't see how he won't make it to Canton as long as he continues to play at the same level for the rest of his career.
if if if if if. he's 31 and has 2 seasons with a 90 QBR. people are so fast to hop on his ****.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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in other news, the 2004 draft class is on its way to being almost goat.

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Old 02-05-2012, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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if if if if if. he's 31 and has 2 seasons with a 90 QBR. people are so fast to hop on his ****.
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...E/ElwaJo00.htm

John Elway career 79.9 passer rating therefore he isn't very good and ONLY won two super bowls. Also only had two seasons over 90 QBR.

Not a hall of famer if you ask me.

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Old 02-05-2012, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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if if if if if. he's 31 and has 2 seasons with a 90 QBR. people are so fast to hop on his ****.
He's going to Canton. It's almost a lock. Every qb who has 2+ SBs has gotten into Canton other than Jim Plunkett. And Eli's career is far superior to his so I'll be shocked if he doesn't wind up in Canton eventually.

The precedent is already set. He'll go to Canton. Whether it's deserving or not is a separate debate and I won't fault you at all for feeling he's not deserving yet, but he's going in. Perception in football matters when it comes to accolades like the HOF. Even if perception and reality are not the same.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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http://www.pro-football-reference.co...E/ElwaJo00.htm

John Elway career 79.9 passer rating therefore he isn't very good and ONLY won two super bowls. Also only had two seasons over 90 QBR.

Not a hall of famer if you ask me.

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Well that's silly. How much time do you have? I will start naming all the things that separate Elway from Manning. 5 superbowl appearances. 7 seasons with a QBR over 80, as opposed to 4 for eli. No help his entire career up until the age of 95. sacked 519 times to eli's 194 despite far superior release timing and mobility. Never had a pro-bowl receiver until his 10th year in shannon sharpe, never had a pro bowl WR tillthe emergence of rod smith in 1997, 2 years away from his retirement. All time leader in 4th quarter comebacks. 46 career 4thquarter comebacks to eli's 23. 64% career win percentage not including the playoffs to eli's 57% career win percentage. go home, troll. The reason my argument that eli isn't tier 1 or a HOF'er was so small in the first place is that eli has nothing to even talk about aside from 2 rings and 2 elite seasons.

perception and reality show that eli manning can't hold elway's jock, or rodgers (future HOFER, like Manning and Brady)

If manning can put together more than 2 90+ QBR seasons or another ring he's in. Jim Plunkett was practically ass, and to this date, he has 1 less 80+ QBR season than manning.

manning, unlike elway, has NOTHING that separates him from the pack of QB's that have won multiple superbowls. No longevity, just a clutch gene for 2 seasons.

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Old 02-05-2012, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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Well that's silly. How much time do you have? I will start naming all the things that separate Elway from Manning. 5 superbowl appearances. 7 seasons with a QBR over 80, as opposed to 4 for eli. No help his entire career up until the age of 95. sacked 519 times to eli's 194 despite far superior release timing and mobility. Never had a pro-bowl receiver until Rod Smith/Eddie Mac. All time leader in 4th quarter comebacks. 46 career 4thquarter comebacks to eli's 23. 64% career win percentage not including the playoffs to eli's 57% career win percentage. go home, troll. The reason my argument that eli isn't tier 1 or a HOF'er was so small in the first place is that eli has nothing to even talk about aside from 2 rings and 2 elite seasons.
because **** rings! amirite?
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:38 PM    (permalink
Jimmy
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because **** rings! amirite?
well i'm done arguing with you simpletons. can't even process my argument. i say that eli isn't a hof'er because the only thing he has to show is 2 rings, and it's automatically "Jimmy is saying rings mean nothing, **** rings!"

you don't see people calling robert horry tier 1, do you?

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Last edited by Jimmy : 02-05-2012 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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You're grasping for straws when all you have is passer ratings from 6 years ago. Most people here live in 2012, and right now Eli is elite. If you're living in 2006 and relying on select stats, I can see the argument against Eli as elite.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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no, absolutely not, but rings aren't everything, just a piece of the pie.

you don't see people calling robert horry tier 1, do you?
robert horry never played QB. he was a complementary piece. always. eli has played 8 seasons. he's won 2 rings. and he's been prety great in all others. so basically, he's won the whole ******* thing 25% of the years he's played...

im drunk, but jeremy lin help me if im wrong in this argument.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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You're grasping for straws when all you have is passer ratings from 6 years ago. Most people here live in 2012, and right now Eli is elite. If you're living in 2006 and relying on select stats, I can see the argument against Eli as elite.
in 2012, he is not on the brady, rodgers, manning (peyton variety) brees level.

he is tier 2. you tell me, is that elite?
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