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Old 02-07-2012, 08:42 AM    (permalink
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God I hate QB rankings. Why do I have to have Cassel. Why. :(
Because Scott Pioli runs your team and Cassel was at one time a Patriot.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:44 AM    (permalink
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Ok lets look at it another way. Lets say that the NFL was found to be a front for the Taliban and must be dismantled the new league has a draft to determine the new teams. Would Eli be a serious candidate for #1 overall? If you say no then there must be a sizable gap between those who are in consideration and Eli. Thus he isn't elite.
I don't think anybody would pick Peyton over Eli right now.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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I don't think anybody would pick Peyton over Eli right now.
I think it depends. If he's in 2010 form I would. If he isn't then no. Almost impossible to say given we don't really know the situation.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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I think it depends. If he's in 2010 form I would. If he isn't then no. Almost impossible to say given we don't really know the situation.
Well, we kind of do. His neck is fine, but the nerves that control his tricep haven't regenerated, so he can't throw like he used to. They might regenerate, or they might not. There's no timeframe for when it will happen and no guarantee it will happen.

So, right now, I'm 100% positive no team would pick Peyton over Eli.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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Well, we kind of do. His neck is fine, but the nerves that control his tricep haven't regenerated, so he can't throw like he used to. They might regenerate, or they might not. There's no timeframe for when it will happen and no guarantee it will happen.

So, right now, I'm 100% positive no team would pick Peyton over Eli.
For the future I would agree. It would be too much of a risk.
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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Top 10:

1. Tom Brady

2. Aaron Rodgers

3. Drew Brees

4. Peyton Manning

5. Eli Manning

6. Ben Roethlisberger

7. Philip Rivers

8. Michael Vick

9. Matthew Stafford

10. Tony Romo

Peyton will probably move up again after showing he can successfully return.
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:04 AM    (permalink
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Well, we kind of do. His neck is fine, but the nerves that control his tricep haven't regenerated, so he can't throw like he used to. They might regenerate, or they might not. There's no timeframe for when it will happen and no guarantee it will happen.

So, right now, I'm 100% positive no team would pick Peyton over Eli.
Ok so forget Peyton for a moment. Because that isn't exactly the question is it? It isn't Peyton vs Eli it is weather or not Eli is an Elite QB. Would Eli be considered with a #1 overall pick if the league was blown up and we were building teams all over again. The answer is no, no team would really give it consideration. The debate would go for Brees Brady or maybe discount double check.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:07 AM    (permalink
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Ok so forget Peyton for a moment. Because that isn't exactly the question is it? It isn't Peyton vs Eli it is weather or not Eli is an Elite QB. Would Eli be considered with a #1 overall pick if the league was blown up and we were building teams all over again. The answer is no, no team would really give it consideration. The debate would go for Brees Brady or maybe discount double check.
I agree with that. In my initial rankings I put Eli in the tier just below elite. Some people might be impressed with Eli enough to put him on par with the top 3 right now but I'm not there yet with him.
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:13 AM    (permalink
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Ridiculous disrespect to Alex Smith, in this topic. The man has 32 touchdowns to 7 interceptions with a 17-5 record since he was booed against the Eagles last year. Ten of those touchdowns, along with only two interceptions and a 3-1 record, came last season so that completely disproves the idea that Harbaugh made him look good.

He is the only QB ever to throw for 5+ touchdowns with no interceptions in his first two playoff games. He carried his team to a playoff win against the best offense in the NFL and the team many people expected to win the Super Bowl.

Anyone who has Smith outside of their top 15 is a hater. For him to be below anyone of the players on OP's Tier 4 is ridiculous when at worst he is just as good as Flacco

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Old 02-07-2012, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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Ok so forget Peyton for a moment. Because that isn't exactly the question is it? It isn't Peyton vs Eli it is weather or not Eli is an Elite QB. Would Eli be considered with a #1 overall pick if the league was blown up and we were building teams all over again. The answer is no, no team would really give it consideration. The debate would go for Brees Brady or maybe discount double check.
By that logic Brees and Brady aren't elite because no one would pick either of those old men over discount double check. His age + talent would make him the #1 pick with Stafford the likely #2. Does that make those two the only elite QBs in the NFL?
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-07-2012, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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i find it hilarious that gabbert made your list, but tebow doesn't.
Not a QB. He's a Trolling Jesusback.
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Old 02-07-2012, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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Hmm. Not including Peyton at this point.

1. Rodgers
2. Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Ben
5. Eli
6. Rivers
7. Stafford
8. Cutler
9. Romo

I feel really good about that as of this moment. I think Stafford can move up, but I'm happy with his positioning for now.

However, this where I'm struggling to accurately rank 10, 11, 12. Schaub, Ryan, Newton, Vick. (With Flacco coming in at 14).
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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If we go by how they did against the best defense in the NFL, Tebow is a clear #1. Of course, the Steelers didn't play a lot of the top guys, but they did play Tom Brady, who most people have in the top 3. Based on the transitive property, Tebow is at the very least one spot above Brady and therefore a top 3 QB.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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By that logic Brees and Brady aren't elite because no one would pick either of those old men over discount double check. His age + talent would make him the #1 pick with Stafford the likely #2. Does that make those two the only elite QBs in the NFL?
So you're honestly saying that if you were a GM with the #1 overall pick in a new league draft that you wouldn't even consider taking Brady or Brees?? Then you sir are the worst GM on the planet.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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Ok lets look at it another way. Lets say that the NFL was found to be a front for the Taliban and must be dismantled the new league has a draft to determine the new teams. Would Eli be a serious candidate for #1 overall? If you say no then there must be a sizable gap between those who are in consideration and Eli. Thus he isn't elite.
So, if you're going by this, how did you possibly not put Aaron Rodgers in the elite category?

If you're using a criteria that doesn't put Rodgers in the elite category, you're using a bad criteria.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Honestly if I had the #1 pick in that situation, I take a much longer look at Cam Newton than I do at Brees or Brady. Brady will be 35 before week 1 of next year, Brees is and will be 33. You're looking at, at the very most, 5 years of effective play from them. So why even consider passing on a guy who is already as good as(and IMO, better than) those two, and is also only 28 years old?? It makes no sense. Newton would be the guy I'd look second closest at, and that's only because of his mind-blowing potential and very young age. That said though, at pick 2, with Rodgers out of the picture, Brees is likely going to be picked.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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So you're honestly saying that if you were a GM with the #1 overall pick in a new league draft that you wouldn't even consider taking Brady or Brees?? Then you sir are the worst GM on the planet.
With Aaron Rodgers in the NFL? Of course I wouldn't pick them over him. Why limited my window to compete for a championship with QBs that aren't clearly better? That's just stupid. I'd consider Brady and Brees, just like I'd consider taking Eli, Stafford or Cam Newton as well, but ultimately picking anyone other Aaron Rodgers would make one the worst GM on the planet.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Honestly if I had the #1 pick in that situation, I take a much longer look at Cam Newton than I do at Brees or Brady. Brady will be 35 before week 1 of next year, Brees is and will be 33. You're looking at, at the very most, 5 years of effective play from them. So why even consider passing on a guy who is already as good as(and IMO, better than) those two, and is also only 28 years old?? It makes no sense. Newton would be the guy I'd look second closest at, and that's only because of his mind-blowing potential and very young age. That said though, at pick 2, with Rodgers out of the picture, Brees is likely going to be picked.
Stafford. In that hypothetical Rodgers, Stafford and then Newton would be the first 3 picks. And Eli and Big Ben would be the one's battling Brees for that #4 spot.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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So, if you're going by this, how did you possibly not put Aaron Rodgers in the elite category?

If you're using a criteria that doesn't put Rodgers in the elite category, you're using a bad criteria.
I figured someone was going to jump on me for not putting Rodgers into the Elite category. I require three years of elite production. Rodgers has 2 years of elite production. As I said in my post to be elite you must be in the year in and year out conversation for MVP you don't have to win it (although Rodgers did). I will be the first to admit that he has played to an elite level for the past two seasons.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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I figured someone was going to jump on me for not putting Rodgers into the Elite category. I require three years of elite production. Rodgers has 2 years of elite production. As I said in my post to be elite you must be in the year in and year out conversation for MVP you don't have to win it (although Rodgers did). I will be the first to admit that he has played to an elite level for the past two seasons.
Would Rodgers be considered with a #1 overall pick if the league was blown up and we were building teams all over again? The answer's yes. So of course he's elite, in fact he's the only elite QB in the NFL.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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I figured someone was going to jump on me for not putting Rodgers into the Elite category. I require three years of elite production. Rodgers has 2 years of elite production. As I said in my post to be elite you must be in the year in and year out conversation for MVP you don't have to win it (although Rodgers did). I will be the first to admit that he has played to an elite level for the past two seasons.
I'm definitely putting Rodgers as an elite QB but I really, really prefer your definition of elite over John Clayotn of ESPN. He has something like 13 QBs as elite including Joe Flacco.

Elite is the very best. Rodgers, Brady, Brees and Eli are elite at the minute. A few guys have the potential. Rivers needs a better cast round him. Stafford is close. Big Ben needs to stay healthy. Peyton obviously if he can come back to his regular play(if he ever does). I feel bad for saying there is 4 and potentially 8 elite guys at the minute.

Guys like Romo may never be elite but at any point could be a top 5 guy. He just struggles with consistency. Then you have younger guys like Newton coming through.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Rodgers isn't the only one that is elite. Age doesn't decide whether you're elite or not.

The #1 pick choice is easy though. Of the 3 elite QBs in the league at the moment, only one is fairly young.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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sorry to cherrypick, but if the excuse is 'talent around him', he's not an elite tier qb.
Then Peyton isn't a elite QB? remember last year when he struggled for a couple games because Collie and Dallas Clark were injured.The excuses were he is losing his top TE and one of his top WR's.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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i don't buy for a second that that was a valid argument for most of peyton's career. further, even if i were to, struggling for a couple of games is massively different than struggling for an entire season after getting one of your best weapons back, and having your best offensive threat play in more games than he did the season before.
I thought Rivers was hurt most of the season?
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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sorry to cherrypick, but if the excuse is 'talent around him', he's not an elite tier qb.
I think it's a tough situation to look at. Take Aaron Rodgers this year. Pretty much everyone will agree he was lights out and the rightful MVP. But he is about 5 or 6 deep with quality WRs. Yet when Jennings got hurt and the offensive line got hurt his play dropped significantly. Rivers played with a sucky offensive line and a hobbled Gates all year.

I'm not putting Rivers into the elite category, but before this year almost everyone had him as well as Rodgers as the guys who were going to take the next step.
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