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Old 09-03-2012, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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The media falls in love with potential and when the potential such as Julio Jones routinely makes 1 handed catches that they can beat off to in pre game warm ups of course their going to jizz everywhere but I haven't seen anyone successfully shut down Jordy and Jennings in about two years aside from the Giants playoff loss. Remember that Jennings didn't play in the Chiefs loss last year.

I'm not denying what Roddy and Julio can do together but let's not forget what Jennings and Nelson have been doing together for an extended period of time. Jones and White have so much raw potential but when will the Falcons open up their playbook to recognize it? This year is the year right? Just like the Cowboys realize their potential?

In recent years, Moss/Welker, Harrison/Wayne, Fitz/Boldin, and dating back a little further the greatest show on turf were all hell for defensive backs. Pretty soon we're going to have to start including the likes of Gronk/Welker, Graham/Colston if we're considering White/Jones.

But as far as media hype this year's Falcons WRs take the cake.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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The media falls in love with potential and when the potential such as Julio Jones routinely makes 1 handed catches that they can beat off to in pre game warm ups of course their going to jizz everywhere but I haven't seen anyone successfully shut down Jordy and Jennings in about two years aside from the Giants playoff loss. Remember that Jennings didn't play in the Chiefs loss last year.

I'm not denying what Roddy and Julio can do together but let's not forget what Jennings and Nelson have been doing together for an extended period of time. Jones and White have so much raw potential but when will the Falcons open up their playbook to recognize it? This year is the year right? Just like the Cowboys realize their potential?

In recent years, Moss/Welker, Harrison/Wayne, Fitz/Boldin, and dating back a little further the greatest show on turf were all hell for defensive backs. Pretty soon we're going to have to start including the likes of Gronk/Welker, Graham/Colston if we're considering White/Jones.

But as far as media hype this year's Falcons WRs take the cake.


That was Mularkey's fault. Look at the offense in the pre-season since Koetter has taken over. Night and day. Talking about a team/players playing up to their potential is different then talking about an offense. Now if Mularkey was still there and people kept saying "they've got to open things up this year finally, I think they will" I would get that but Koetter runs a much faster, up tempo, no huddle offense that is going to go through Julio primarily and it's already too fast for Michael Turner who is running with cement blocks tied to his ankles.


Now your point about Jennings/Jordy I do see. Jordy doesn't get the hype that some of those other WR's do but I think if he has a repeat performance he will. He caught a lot of people off guard with that type of season and not many felt he had that type of ability, where as if Julio or AJG caught 16 TD's nobody would blink an eye because it was almost expected at some point.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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It wasn't Julio Jones potential that resulted him leading the entire NFL in yards after catch last year. There's really no debate that Roddy is more than potential, so I won't bother making an argument for him. Nelson and Jennings are good, but I don't believe they're as good as Jones and White.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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That was Mularkey's fault. Look at the offense in the pre-season since Koetter has taken over. Night and day. Talking about a team/players playing up to their potential is different then talking about an offense. Now if Mularkey was still there and people kept saying "they've got to open things up this year finally, I think they will" I would get that but Koetter runs a much faster, up tempo, no huddle offense that is going to go through Julio primarily and it's already too fast for Michael Turner who is running with cement blocks tied to his ankles.


Now your point about Jennings/Jordy I do see. Jordy doesn't get the hype that some of those other WR's do but I think if he has a repeat performance he will. He caught a lot of people off guard with that type of season and not many felt he had that type of ability, where as if Julio or AJG caught 16 TD's nobody would blink an eye because it was almost expected at some point.
I don't know if it's fair to blame their woes on Mularkey. When Michael Turner ran for over 100 yards a game, the Falcons were a ridiculous 22-5. That's a pretty dominant recipe for success.

I think Matt Ryan's physical limitations are more to blame than Mularkey, but we'll find out the true answer to this question this year.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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Ah yes, the "it's because of Turner when they won and because of Ryan when they lost" argument. People point to Matt Ryan when discussuing the Falcons playoff losses, yet ignore that Turner was held to under 50 yards rushing in all 3 of those losses.

"but, but.....Turner was held to under 50 yards because Matt Ryans has teh weak armz!"
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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It wasn't Julio Jones potential that resulted him leading the entire NFL in yards after catch last year. There's really no debate that Roddy is more than potential, so I won't bother making an argument for him. Nelson and Jennings are good, but I don't believe they're as good as Jones and White.
This is where I struggle to understand the concept of one pairing to be better than the other. What exactly makes you believe that Roddy White and Julio Jones are better than Jennings and Nelson despite what their numbers say? Because of what White has done and where Julio was drafted and his expectations? Because if you base it solely on what they've done on Sundays, I have to believe that the better numbers prevail in making one pairing 'better' than the other.

Jennings: 67 Rec/101 Targets, 949 Yards, 9 TDs
Nelson: 68 Rec/96 Targets, 1263 Yards, 15 TDs
Total: 135/197, 2212 Yards, 24 TDs

White: 100/181, 1296 Yards, 8 TDs
Jones: 54/96, 959, 8 TDs
Total: 154/277, 2255, 16 TDs

Call me crazy but give me Jennings and Nelson last year's production to White and Jones' potential.

And Jones (415) didn't lead the league in yards after the catch, he was about 300+ yards off of Welker's pace (732).
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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I read a stat on NFL.com this morning that can't be true. Dez Bryant has only one 100 yard receiving game in his career?
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Ah yes, the "it's because of Turner when they won and because of Ryan when they lost" argument. People point to Matt Ryan when discussuing the Falcons playoff losses, yet ignore that Turner was held to under 50 yards rushing in all 3 of those losses.

"but, but.....Turner was held to under 50 yards because Matt Ryans has teh weak armz!"
Well duh, it's a simple concept. When Turner runs well, you win. When he doesn't, you lose.

So what's the gameplan vs the Falcons? Pack the box, stuff the run, and force Ryan to beat you.

The results? 0-3 in the playoffs.

So yes, to put it simply, Ryan is to blame. It's one thing if he played well in his 3 playoff loses and still lost. Ryan has been mediocre to awful in all 3 of his playoff loses.

All you have to do against the Falcons is pack the box, and force Ryan to throw outside the numbers. He can throw deep, people confuse lack of arm strength with a lack of deep ball ability, that's not true. Arm strength shows in the intermediate out patterns. That's where a lack of arm strength hurts you. If you funnel his WRs inside into zone defenders and stop the run, he can't hit those intermediate outs.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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But to stay on topic, I'll concede that the Falcons duo has become the consensus top WR in the league based on hype. And hype alone.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan is still young. I wouldn't be concerned. Manning didn't play very well in his first three playoff games of his career, all losses including a 41-0 shut out against the Jets.

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I read a stat on NFL.com this morning that can't be true. Dez Bryant has only one 100 yard receiving game in his career?
Probably. I don't think he went over 100 yards last season once.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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But to stay on topic, I'll concede that the Falcons duo has become the consensus top WR in the league based on hype. And hype alone.
Yeah well they made the big move to trade up to get him. Now it's up to Ryan and Jones to actually do something. I am interested to see how they do.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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I read a stat on NFL.com this morning that can't be true. Dez Bryant has only one 100 yard receiving game in his career?
Back in 2010 against the Giants. Not a single one last year, despite 7 games with 70 yards or more.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Well duh, it's a simple concept. When Turner runs well, you win. When he doesn't, you lose.
In football, teams tend to run more when they lead. That's also a factor. Basic football 101. You're just trying to turn this discussion into the same rehashed, simple minded blame it all on Matt Ryan arguments that have been made over and over. At least be an original troll.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Yeah well they made the big move to trade up to get him. Now it's up to Ryan and Jones to actually do something. I am interested to see how they do.
I'm interested as well because no one can deny the raw talent that those guys possess but the question was were they the top duo in the league, and I quickly wanted to put that to rest until they show they are and aren't crowned before they prove it.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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I'm interested as well because no one can deny the raw talent that those guys possess but the question was were they the top duo in the league, and I quickly wanted to put that to rest until they show they are and aren't crowned before they prove it.
But you just conceded that Jones and White are the best in the league!

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Old 09-03-2012, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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But you just conceded that Jones and White are the best in the league!

If you want to crown them, then crown their ass!
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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In football, teams tend to run more when they lead. That's also a factor. Basic football 101. You're just trying to turn this discussion into the same rehashed, simple minded blame it all on Matt Ryan arguments that have been made over and over. At least be an original troll.
It's a quarterback league. Teams are so similar in overall talent, very often the difference btw wins and losses in the playoffs comes down to the qb.

I'm rooting for Matt Ryan, I have Julio Jones in my fantasy leagues. So I have incentive to root for Ryan to do well. But let's call it like it is, he hasn't really distinguished himself from other middle of the pack qbs.

I love his ability to read defenses, adjust protections and audible. I don't question his mental approach. But he has limitations. They're obvious when you watch him play.

The offensive coordinator is the biggest scapegoat in football. It's always the OC's fault. That's a pile of crap. I'm not saying they are completely free of blame, but we pile onto OC's way too much on this message board. It's just become ridiculous.

Let's put some blame back on the players. Players make plays. I never saw a play designed to NOT work.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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Last year's stats don't tell the whole story. Jordy Nelson being second in the league in TD catches doesn't make him the second best WR. Let's not oversimplify.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:08 PM    (permalink
tjsunstein
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
Last year's stats don't tell the whole story. Jordy Nelson being second in the league in TD catches doesn't make him the second best WR. Let's not oversimplify.
I didn't say it did. And I never called Nelson the second best WR.

But please, do tell me the whole story because it kind of seems like a cop out counter argument. You simply asked if they were the consensus best pairing in the NFL. My answer is no.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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I read a stat on NFL.com this morning that can't be true. Dez Bryant has only one 100 yard receiving game in his career?
1400 yards and 12 td season avgs from here on out tho.....

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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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The offensive coordinator is the biggest scapegoat in football. It's always the OC's fault. That's a pile of crap. I'm not saying they are completely free of blame, but we pile onto OC's way too much on this message board. It's just become ridiculous.

Let's put some blame back on the players. Players make plays. I never saw a play designed to NOT work.
This x 100.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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1400 yards and 12 td season avgs from here on out tho.....


What are your projections this year then? 600 yards and 5 TD's?
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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If you want to crown them, then crown their ass!
Well clearly these two are the best. Just ignore that fact that one of them had 15 drops last year and that the other has only played in 13 games, and yeah, they are definitely the best receiving duo in the league! I don't know why anyone would think different.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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What are your projections this year then? 600 yards and 5 TD's?
I seriously hope those predictions I was poking fun at were true, I would love to win my FF league for a third year straight, unfortunately that was such an asinine prediction, and APS's post on only a single 100 yard game just sort of brought that prediction back for me.

If I had to guess, I'd say he'd have a better year than that if he stays healthy, more like 900 yards and 8 TDs, but that also may be too generous. I'm hoping he has a big year.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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