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Old 02-26-2012, 12:26 PM    (permalink
Prowler
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Luck ran a 3 TE offense and didn't have Doug Baldwin anymore. No kidding he checked down. Who the heck else was there to throw to?
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Luck has no problem with a 20 yard throw. His arm strength really isn't an issue at all. Luck does check down the ball... but normally after going through his first 3 reads.
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Luck ran a 3 TE offense and didn't have Doug Baldwin anymore. No kidding he checked down. Who the heck else was there to throw to?
Owusu was pretty much shot for most of the second half also. Luck's arm strength isnt an issue.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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Luck is so incredible b/c of his true intangibles. Has everyone forgotten about the time Luck destroyed Shareece Wright on the running backs fumble? Or the great 1 handed catch he made. He never dogs any play whether its his mistake or his teammates. I had to watch Andy Dalton in his first playoff game throw JJ Watt a pick six and him just stand there and watch him run past him instead of trying to hit him. Its once in a lifetime you find a guy who does all these things plus can throw accurate darts all over the field and run over db's with his feet.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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Owusu was pretty much shot for most of the second half also. Luck's arm strength isnt an issue.
For sure. They had 1 legit threat on the outside, and it was true freshman Ty Montgomery.

Give the guy weapons, and there won't be any arm strength questions.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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The Colts better go after some wide outs this FA or draft or Luck won't have any one again to throw too ..
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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The Colts better go after some wide outs this FA or draft or Luck won't have any one again to throw too ..
Are you people ******* kidding me or what. This guy had a stud offensive line. Great tight ends and running backs. His receiver were not bad either. Excuses after excuses for this guy checking down every other play.

This guy is nowhere near RG3 or Newton as a prospect. I cant wait to see him fail to live up to his expectations.

Manning is the Goat and only won one super bowl because of the terrible ownership and management of the colts.

Luck will fail because he doesnt have the arm strength and is scared to make the difficult throws.
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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Peyton wasn't Peyton in the playoffs against elite teams.

Luck had nearly the same stats passing as RGIII last season. What kind of numbers was he expected to put up to justify his draft position??

6000 yards and 50 TDs??

Luck is a guy who's going to generate offense and points IMO no matter who he's playing with.
To say he plays conservative assumes he wrote the Cardinal playbook.
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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Peyton wasn't Peyton in the playoffs against elite teams.

Luck had nearly the same stats passing as RGIII last season. What kind of numbers was he expected to put up to justify his draft position??

6000 yards and 50 TDs??

Luck is a guy who's going to generate offense and points IMO no matter who he's playing with.
To say he plays conservative assumes he wrote the Cardinal playbook.
His stats are meaningless he plays in a scrub conference. If you actually watch him play you can see how much he checks down and gets bailed out by his teammates. You could plug in any QB and have decent stats in that system.
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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His stats are meaningless he plays in a scrub conference. If you actually watch him play you can see how much he checks down and gets bailed out by his teammates. You could plug in any QB and have decent stats in that system.
I am sick of listening to you. If you knew anything about Andrew Luck it's that they run a PRO STYLE Offense and don't need to pass the ball to Win Games, What WR's did Andrew Luck have? Yeah the TE's are good because they were the only ones that were any threat to catch the ball. RGIII was in the Shotgun 95% of the time had a 1ST Round WR to throw to plus his Offensive Line was not that bad either and the Big 12 Defenses Suck big time. We get it you Love RGIII and don't like Andrew Luck but don't come on this Site and Troll people on here.
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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You're misrepresenting his game. Luck's game isn't based on checkdowns. He wasn't leaving TDs out there on the field because he was afraid to throw the football.

Luck was being bailed out by his teammates?? That's crazy.
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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I am sick of listening to you. If you knew anything about Andrew Luck it's that they run a PRO STYLE Offense and don't need to pass the ball to Win Games, What WR's did Andrew Luck have? Yeah the TE's are good because they were the only ones that were any threat to catch the ball. RGIII was in the Shotgun 95% of the time had a 1ST Round WR to throw to plus his Offensive Line was not that bad either and the Big 12 Defenses Suck big time. We get it you Love RGIII and don't like Andrew Luck but don't come on this Site and Troll people on here.
buddy hate to break it to you but the nfl is becoming a spread league. The top teams in the nfl already run a spread offense like the saints,packers,patriots.

Luck ran a very simple offense that had very easy throws to make. Up your football knowledge than we can talk.
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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When I watch Griffin, he just seems to be better in all mechanics in terms of accuracy, arm strength, prettier deep ball as well, athleticism, vision, pocket presence and what he tops him at most of all, is the ability to make things happen with his feet.

Both players are intelligent and have good, well great vision and passion for the game. But I think RG III is just a step or 2 ahead of Luck in almost, if not, every category when grading a QB prospect.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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I said it the first time I saw him and it's held true everytime since, Luck moves better in the pocket than anyone that I've seen at a collegiate level. That to me is his single best trait and also the reason I think he is the best QB prospect I've seen.

Something that all the top QBs in the league have is elite footwork, Mannings, Brees, Brady, Rodgers and Roethlisberger all move within the pocket, Luck has that Rodgers like ability to also move outside the pocket but it is within the pocket that he is at his best and why I think he is special.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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When I watch Griffin, he just seems to be better in all mechanics in terms of accuracy, arm strength, prettier deep ball as well, athleticism, vision, pocket presence and what he tops him at most of all, is the ability to make things happen with his feet.

Both players are intelligent and have good, well great vision and passion for the game. But I think RG III is just a step or 2 ahead of Luck in almost, if not, every category when grading a QB prospect.
I will concede that Griffin has better arm stregth, a deep ball, athleticism, and he can make more when a play breaks down with his feet, but those are the only things that I think Griffin has over Luck. Luck is better in probably every other way and at a minimum equal to Griffin. Luck's pocket presence is simply elite. His ability to go through 4 reads and make it look standard is something a lot of QB never get down.

It's also easy to just say that the NFL is now incorporating the spread offense but traditional pro style offensive elements are still the norm and Luck has 3 years advantage working in offense that is highly comparable to pro teams. Luck's ability presnap is being down played way too much. I'm not saying that he was his own OC out there, but his ability to read a defense & change the play give him an enormous advantage. Griffen is a smart kid and will get there, but Luck is there.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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buddy hate to break it to you but the nfl is becoming a spread league. The top teams in the nfl already run a spread offense like the saints,packers,patriots.

Luck ran a very simple offense that had very easy throws to make. Up your football knowledge than we can talk.
You're right, the guy who takes the vast majority of his snaps under center ran a very simple offense. They guy who could call run or bootleg audibles and used hand signals ran the simple offense.

Also, even though most of the time I've seen Coby Fleener in traditional TE spot on the line or in the backfield, he still pushes the seam like Gronk or Hernandez. You do realize how beneficial it is for a QB to recognize his good matchups and manipulate his team into the best situations to take advantage of it right? Checking down and "getting bailed out by ones teammates" is what football is. You get the ball in the hands of your playmakers. Hell, Luck's YPA is 8.7 which is comparable to Tom Brady's 8.6 YPA this year. Tom's similar play of checking down and getting bailed out by his tight ends led him to 5,235 yards and the Super Bowl this year. Luck had 200 less attempts, but statistically would have been right next to him.

Your arguments are terrible and indefensible.
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Old 02-27-2012, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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I'm too lazy to go through a thread right now, so I apologize if it's been mentioned.

a) Mayock was criticizing, for lack of a better way to say it, the terminology, not the talent. Did you listen to his interview on PFT with Florio? Said Luck was as good a bet as there is to become an all-pro in this draft. He's simply saying that he doesn't like calling someone elite. Mayock also notes

b) Peyton Manning, as a prospect, had questions. More than anything, listening to the interviews and write-ups, it sounds like Mayock is criticizing the comparison of Luck to Manning/Brady right NOW, whereas many of the people, including myself, are comparing Luck to them as

c) Prospects. There's nothing definite about prospects. Luck's been the only QB that I've actually used the "ready" label, but even in saying that, I know I'm somewhat betraying my own principles on QB prospects (that I don't buy the term "pro-ready" as it is used by draftniks on QB prospects. The argument is that Luck, as a prospect, is the best thing since Manning (and I think there's an argument that he's better than Manning as a prospect ... the amount of responsibilities he had at the line was simply staggering for a QB prospect.

_____

Luck is not the QB with the highest ceiling in this draft, as he lacks elite arm strength. Griffin III has a higher ceiling. I do think Luck is the best QB prospect since Manning (I won't dare compare to Elway as I've never seen enough of Elway in college to make a statement), but that is a combination of upside and "readiness". The arm strength is still good enough, and as today showed, he's a good overall athlete (which was evident on film). The accuracy/mechanics are there, and by all accounts, the intangibles are there. The QB specific abilities, the ability to see different planes of the field and attack hi/low, 1-5, the ability to make line adjustments, and so forth - his readiness in those aspects is what separates him from other QB prospects.

I love RG3. I never thought I would get to the point of saying that, but I do. In any other year, he's a clearcut number 1 overall, no 2nd question. I still firmly believe that, in general, you take Luck over RG3, but if you are superbly confident in your coaching staff, and in RG3, I can understand taking upside.
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Old 02-27-2012, 12:31 AM    (permalink
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buddy hate to break it to you but the nfl is becoming a spread league. The top teams in the nfl already run a spread offense like the saints,packers,patriots.

Luck ran a very simple offense that had very easy throws to make. Up your football knowledge than we can talk.
What? Luck ran a superbly complex offense, where he was making pro calls at the line on adjustments.

Now, RG3 is getting a bit unfairly bashed in one regard - he ran a spread, but it was a bit more complex than most spread offenses.
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Old 02-27-2012, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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When I watch Griffin, he just seems to be better in all mechanics in terms of accuracy, arm strength, prettier deep ball as well, athleticism, vision, pocket presence and what he tops him at most of all, is the ability to make things happen with his feet.

Both players are intelligent and have good, well great vision and passion for the game. But I think RG III is just a step or 2 ahead of Luck in almost, if not, every category when grading a QB prospect.
One of my bigger concerns with Griffin III is that his mechanics seem to break down at times. Luck has better intermediate accuracy, IMO, and is more adept at hitting the tough seam passes or the hard 15-yard outs. I think Luck has far better pocket presence (the ability to scramble doesn't correlate directly with pocket presence - there's some aspect there, but Luck moves his feet very, very well), and I think, due to the complexity of the offense and the multiple read looks Luck went through, that you have to give him the vision nod as well.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:27 AM    (permalink
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My concern with Luck is that he's Matt Ryan and not Peyton Manning. Obviously, that still warrants a #1 overall pick, but you do have to wonder if players like Matt Kalil or Robert Griffin become all time greats at their positions.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:36 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toonsterwu View Post
I'm too lazy to go through a thread right now, so I apologize if it's been mentioned.

a) Mayock was criticizing, for lack of a better way to say it, the terminology, not the talent. Did you listen to his interview on PFT with Florio? Said Luck was as good a bet as there is to become an all-pro in this draft. He's simply saying that he doesn't like calling someone elite. Mayock also notes

b) Peyton Manning, as a prospect, had questions. More than anything, listening to the interviews and write-ups, it sounds like Mayock is criticizing the comparison of Luck to Manning/Brady right NOW, whereas many of the people, including myself, are comparing Luck to them as

c) Prospects. There's nothing definite about prospects. Luck's been the only QB that I've actually used the "ready" label, but even in saying that, I know I'm somewhat betraying my own principles on QB prospects (that I don't buy the term "pro-ready" as it is used by draftniks on QB prospects. The argument is that Luck, as a prospect, is the best thing since Manning (and I think there's an argument that he's better than Manning as a prospect ... the amount of responsibilities he had at the line was simply staggering for a QB prospect.

_____

Luck is not the QB with the highest ceiling in this draft, as he lacks elite arm strength. Griffin III has a higher ceiling. I do think Luck is the best QB prospect since Manning (I won't dare compare to Elway as I've never seen enough of Elway in college to make a statement), but that is a combination of upside and "readiness". The arm strength is still good enough, and as today showed, he's a good overall athlete (which was evident on film). The accuracy/mechanics are there, and by all accounts, the intangibles are there. The QB specific abilities, the ability to see different planes of the field and attack hi/low, 1-5, the ability to make line adjustments, and so forth - his readiness in those aspects is what separates him from other QB prospects.

I love RG3. I never thought I would get to the point of saying that, but I do. In any other year, he's a clearcut number 1 overall, no 2nd question. I still firmly believe that, in general, you take Luck over RG3, but if you are superbly confident in your coaching staff, and in RG3, I can understand taking upside.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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the fact that he had to upgrade from once in a generation to once in a lifetime to find a term he didn't agree with, says it all. Luck is once in a generation. He's not once in a lifetime. That's probably a fair comment. He's not the best QB to come along for 75 years.
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