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Old 02-21-2012, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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Lots of people seem to think Welker's production is better than his talent.

Call it what you want, but he generally is more productive than almost any WR which I think puts him in the top 10. He's by far more productive than anything else in NE.
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by descendency View Post
Lots of people seem to think Welker's production is better than his talent.

Call it what you want, but he generally is more productive than almost any WR which I think puts him in the top 10. He's by far more productive than anything else in NE.
Unless he's required to make a catch that matters.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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I would say that Wes Welker would not be as good in many different environments. I am a firm believer that he is in the perfect place for him to succeed--the other two team he matches up well with would be Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees.

What I mean to say is that I think he gets much of his value from his QB. Many WRs get their value from their QB so it's not necessarily a knock on him. However the truly game breaking WRs will be very successful no matter who is throwing the rock.

Over/underrated really is an ambiguous term. On his ability to change the game in any system or with any QB, I would not rate him highly. However, if I had a guy like Brady, Rodgers or Brees, Welker would be one of my top WRs.
Its actually the other way around. Brady's completion percentage and average yards per game are significantly higher after Welker started playing in NE. Welker's numbers didnt dip the year Brady was hurt.

Welker has made both Brady and Cassel look better than they are.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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Its actually the other way around. Brady's completion percentage and average yards per game are significantly higher after Welker started playing in NE. Welker's numbers didnt dip the year Brady was hurt.

Welker has made both Brady and Cassel look better than they are.
You are assuming that everything else was static. The offense also significantly changed over that time to be much more of a spread offense. This is the offense in which Welker would be best.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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I'm so sick of the system argument when it comes to Wes Welker. What's so wrong about finding a guy that fits your system and him mastering it?
Exactly! A player is more than a physical specimen. If he knows his system and has mastered it, then he's a good, smart player. They simply do their job extremely well.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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Its actually the other way around. Brady's completion percentage and average yards per game are significantly higher after Welker started playing in NE. Welker's numbers didnt dip the year Brady was hurt.

Welker has made both Brady and Cassel look better than they are.
What were Brady Stats when Julian Eldman(sp?) was filling in for a injured Welker.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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Welker's role in our offense is absolutely enormous, and nobody in the league could do what he does for us better. That is why we gave up a second rounder for a guy who was relatively unknown aside from a few gimmick plays and was undrafted only a few years before.

Look at Welkers production in his years here, but more importantly look at our offenses production in his years here. We have had one of, if not the best offenses in the league since Welker has been here. Take away Brady for a year, he still pulled down 111 catches with a young unknown QB. Think Cassel would like Welker in KC? Everyone said Welker would do nothing with Moss gone, and it turned out to be just the opposite.

Welker definitely has his limitations, but what he does is so huge to our team's success. We need to add another receiver without question, but Welker is not the most overrated player in the NFL. He had a huge drop in the Super Bowl, but that would have been a spectacular catch. Wes is an amazing player and most people can't comprehend that someone with the physical skill set of Wes Welker is consistently one of the most productive players in the NFL.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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tebow-esque.
Game 2, 2009: 23/47, 0 TD - 1 INT, 216 Yards (53.1 QBR) [@Jets]
Game 3, 2009: 25/46, 1 TD - 0 INT, 277 Yards (87.1 QBR) [Falcons]
Game 17, 2009: 23/42, 2 TD - 3 INT, 154 Yards (49.1 QBR) [Ravens playoffs]
Game 16, 2010: 10/16, 2 TD - 0 INT, 199 yards (145.6 QBR) [Dolphins]
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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You are assuming that everything else was static. The offense also significantly changed over that time to be much more of a spread offense. This is the offense in which Welker would be best.
Thats fine if you want to credit the system, but in your earlier post it certainly appears you only think Welker would be successful with one of the three top QBs in the league. Welker showed he was just as good with Cassel in there.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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Welker's not overrated, it's just that some offensive coordinators would not be as creative as New England's have been in finding ways to get him the ball. Many NFL coaches are creatures of habit who would try and fit a round peg into a square hole with limited results, but in terms of talent Welker has a well-deserved reputation as one of the most uncoverable receivers in the league.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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Most over rated in the NFL

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Old 02-21-2012, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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Most over rated in the NFL

Except no one rates him highly (except Skip Bayless)
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:23 AM    (permalink
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This thread is the most overrated thread in the forum. The fact we're on page 2 of a topic so far from reality is a joke. Welker excels at what he does, he may not be sexy but **** me he's efficient
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:24 AM    (permalink
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I actually like WalterFootball for some draft stuff here and there but god damn, the dude is utterly clueless when it comes to some things.
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:03 AM    (permalink
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I actually like WalterFootball for some draft stuff here and there but god damn, the dude is utterly clueless when it comes to some things.
He is a wannabe comedian who likes to use big words to show how smart he is. He rags on Michael Vick years after the fact (which I'm cool with) but defended Joe Paterno like crazy because he is a Penn State alumni. I liked his site because he was a good handicapper. But this year he was absolutely horrible at football and currently down about $1800 on basketball, so his site has really lost some value to me.
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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Most over rated in the NFL

He isn't over-rated, but over-talked about.
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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Except no one rates him highly (except Skip Bayless)
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He isn't over-rated, but over-talked about.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/D...ght-now-120411

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/spor...r-broncos.html

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/1...-but-candidate

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/9...k-is-justified

No???
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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As a 5'10" guy, I would have to say that Wes Welker is definitely overrated. I'm not going to read the article because I'm lazy, but I would agree that Bess could decently replace Welker. Edelman did a decent job filling in. Playing the slot is extremely easy to me. Slant or drag across the middle and keep the threat of going deep to push the defenders into giving a cushion. Its gimme yards. He's an 11 yards/catch guy. He's great at what he does, but its the system that turns him into the statistically 2nd best WR behind Calvin last year. I love him, he even has dreamy eyes, but he's a slot receiver benefiting from inflated numbers.

I'd also challenge any WR in the NFL/College/HS to name a job that they'd rather have on an NFL team than the "Welker Role" in NE. Slants/Drags all day? Second highest receptions? Sign me up.
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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As a 5'10" guy, I would have to say that Wes Welker is definitely overrated. I'm not going to read the article because I'm lazy, but I would agree that Bess could decently replace Welker. Edelman did a decent job filling in. Playing the slot is extremely easy to me. Slant or drag across the middle and keep the threat of going deep to push the defenders into giving a cushion. Its gimme yards. He's an 11 yards/catch guy. He's great at what he does, but its the system that turns him into the statistically 2nd best WR behind Calvin last year. I love him, he even has dreamy eyes, but he's a slot receiver benefiting from inflated numbers.

I'd also challenge any WR in the NFL/College/HS to name a job that they'd rather have on an NFL team than the "Welker Role" in NE. Slants/Drags all day? Second highest receptions? Sign me up.
Would you rather get pounded 8-12 times per game by a linebacker who is probably 50lbs heavier than you or a safety running feel speed downhill, or tackled by a CB who is probably smaller and lighter than you 5-6 times a game???
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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I'd rather get paid Franchise money for catching the easy ones rather than worrying about looking like a fool trying to judge deep balls.


*And I think he's an evolution of Brandon Stokley/Dallas Clark. Tom Brady/Belichick saw what Peyton was doing in Indiana and they got their own slot/seam stretcher.

He does his job well, but he's also one of the most easily replaced guys in the league.
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:48 PM    (permalink
AntoinCD
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Originally Posted by Prowler View Post
I'd rather get paid Franchise money for catching the easy ones rather than worrying about looking like a fool trying to judge deep balls.


*And I think he's an evolution of Brandon Stokley/Dallas Clark. Tom Brady/Belichick saw what Peyton was doing in Indiana and they got their own slot/seam stretcher.

He does his job well, but he's also one of the most easily replaced guys in the league.
It's easier to find a guy who matches Welker's skillset than, say, trying to find a 6'3+ guy who runs a 4.4 and can be a great outside WR. However I'm not sure there is anyone who can replicate Welker's productivity. Julian Edelman filled in well but I don't see him catching 110 balls on average a season.

Welker does his job extraordinarily well. As far as slot WRs go he is the prototype. And the slot WR in the Patriots offense is a huge part of what makes them tick.
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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I'm glad Michael Vick is #2, but disappointed he isn't #1. Top 10 most overrated player in the history of sports.

What has he ever done? He sucks. I hope someone just knocks him out for good. But then again I hope he stays healthy so the eagles don't go anywhere, BECAUSE HE SUCKS.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CDCB14 View Post
I'm glad Michael Vick is #2, but disappointed he isn't #1. Top 10 most overrated player in the history of sports.

What has he ever done? He sucks. I hope someone just knocks him out for good. But then again I hope he stays healthy so the eagles don't go anywhere, BECAUSE HE SUCKS.
But he runs faster than a cornerback and has a cannon for an arm, he must be great, right?
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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Is that before or after they were debacled by the Patriots, again.
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